ELP's importance not fully recognised

I never heard about them till I get here. But that's not my, nor their fault I suppose.

Thyme Traveler wrote: When they were good, they were very very good; when they were bad... Love Beach. Without disrespecting one of Prog's most revered and influential groups (and I do count myself as a fan), my thoughts are this... Some of the greatest bands in Prog (Pink Floyd, Yes, Camel, and especially Genesis) were much greater than the sum of their parts. With ELP, I never got that feeling. ELP was never ELP > E + L + P, but always ELP = E + L + P.

 Actually in some cases (Works, Love Beach, and especially the retched In the Hot Seat) ELP was much less than E + L + P

Atavachron wrote:  ^ said like someone who really knows a band (you sound like me talkin about Zep )

funny... I thought of you and your post this morning when Raff picked out LZ III and we listened to it. 

Lord knows I've heard the album a 1000 times, but so much so I hadn't listened to it in years, you sort of sink into the 'familiarity breeds contempt' routine.  To where LZ offhandedly can be written off as 'hype' or style or substance... yet when you really listen... you recognize the brilliance of it. 

not to say ELP suffers that same kind of treatment...  some people just hate that group. But again...  that speaks volumes to me as to their import. As I noted once in my TFTO review....   prog is simply the merging of music and art...  as with any work of art.. some will love it.. some will hate it.  The more avant the nature of the work of art... the more passionate the feeling on either side.   That is why ELP is the eptimome of prog..  they didn't play it safe.. make simple inoffensive GENERIC  'prog' that your grandmother can listen to...  *cough... Camel*.. at least until she dozes off.  ELP was high art that pushed peoples buttons. and exploded existing notions of what you could.. or should do with music... and keyboards especially.. and since keyboards and their use is one of HALLMARKS of prog.   It is really silly to argue that their was really any more important group in prog than ELP.


Edited by micky - January 24 2010 at 11:21

Seems like I'm lacking something here by not knowing them, huh ? Are they something like basic need for every progster then ? Are they the soil on which others should grow ? Are they the dish on which we can lay or food, as opposite to eat raw meat from bare floor ?

Just say the word.

Garion81 wrote: Agree with both of you M & R.  ELP did more to push the envelope in the early 70's than any other group.  The obvious of course was the synthesizer but more important making Keyboard a lead instrument. Bringing classical music to an audience never exposed to it but more important was the Gershwin, Bernstien, the jazz and the honky tonk styles also never exposed. They brought the one side of album epic that was more than just  big jam (Who do You Love, In-A-Gadda_Da-Vida). An expertly composed theme with concept that incorporated multiple time changes, symphonic layering and new instrumentation.   To this, then 17 year old taking piano lessons, watching them on the BSS tour it totally changed what I thought music was and how all styles can be incorporated. It erased the this is this and this is that lines I had drawn in my head.   It is unfortunate that they lost momentum after 1974 but those albums in those years more than cemented their importance. Even still with the exception of The Hot Seat (did not originally come with the studio Pictures. That was actually released on the earlier Return of The Manticore Box set) I can find something good on every LP.   Oh one last thought about those years 70-74. They never lost site of the fact they were having fun and that they played rock and roll.

well said Brian

Dellinger wrote: Marty McFly wrote: Seems like I'm lacking something here by not knowing them, huh ? Are they something like basic need for every progster then ? Are they the soil on which others should grow ? Are they the dish on which we can lay or food, as opposite to eat raw meat from bare floor ? Just say the word. Well, you should know them, but that doesn't meen that you have to like them. I guess you can get quiet a good idea about what they are with this thread. For me, they have some very good moments and some very annoying moments (but then, that's true of most bands I like). Perhaps you should just hear them and make your own judgement.

It's true. Youtube will do. Anyway, it's annoying, how everyone's talking about them (NO, THIS ISN't ANNOYING) and I dont understand it at all (THIS IS). Don't misinterpret me please.

I think I heard once Tarkus I suppose, but didn't hear its greatness, when compared to other classic bands I know. Let's try it again, hopefully it will not fade away.

Atavachron wrote: it may be that the Tark is best when heard early in one's prog journey, the magic captured forever

Atavachron wrote: it may be that the Tark is best when heard early in one's prog journey, the magic captured forever

That's it. I'm 21 now, so this experience wouldn't be nostalgia, but instead - more intelligent and "suspicious" close look on what's good about their music and what is not. That's somehow sad. If I had a chance, I could love them more then I would be able now.

There's no denying.

Nothing wrong with bombast. Just means they know what they are doing and do it all brilliantly - in concert. Even though there's bits I can live without (half of Works 1 and Lake's solo material) - I actually think Works 2  works better. 

But they do not have too many truly great albums. Since BSS there have been none. Not for 36 years has there been anything more than fairly half hearted efforts. They might have done a 90125 Yes / mainstream Genesis thing... but they did not so ELP kind of fall off the edge there. \

But the studio albums... they need classics and I'm afraid that opportunity (which always knocked) passed them by.

It's not the axe hero thing either. Genesis - even with Hackett were not a guitar god band and the mainstream Genesis were hugely successful - no Hackett.

ELP are and were a  tremendous band, great musicians and some good related releases (their debut is unbelievably superb IMHO) but mainstream wise it's Karn Evil 9's radio extract and that's it for the mainstream. And for the devotee? Live albums (nearly as many as John Wetton) a-plenty. Some really good ones (and some dodgy disguised WBMFTTSTNE reissues),

When listening to Tarkus keep in mind it was the first epic of its kind.  It was released in 1971 way before Close to the Edge, Thick as Brick and Suppers Ready.