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Topic ClosedHawkwind vs Pink Floyd
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Points: 65760 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2009 at 22:03
Originally posted by SonicDeath10 SonicDeath10 wrote:

Uh, Pink Floyd. And I disagree that Pink Floyd should ahve stuck to "20 minute improvised jams." The band has admitted that those were basically done in desperation because they didn't know what else to do. While 20 minute improvised jams have their place and are very good when done right, they aren't the end all be all. Pink Floyd wrote shorter, catchier songs (not sure when you mean though...Dark Side? Wish You Were Here? Animals? The Wall?) and they were good at them. Shorter catchier songs have their place. Don't be such an elitist. It doesn't suit you.

That said, I do love Hawkwind. It just seems like a silly comparison.
 
Who's better? The Beatles or the Dave Clark Five? It's the same kind of thing.

What I mean is that PF are popular for songs like "Money" and "Another..part 2", but songs "Any Colour You Like" and "The Trial" are unnoticed. I like all  I do love their early stuff though, they were fairly good at those too. If PF had stuck to longer songs, even if all they did was glue together shorter ones, I don't think they would be nearly as popular.

I wonder how different Psych/Space would be if Pink Floyd hadn't of existed.
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Points: 890 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2009 at 05:41
As I sit here typing, a daytime TV property-ladder show is playing "Money" (groan), yet again, and if I hadn't been reading this thread at the time, I wouldn't have even noticed. So ubiquituos is their back catologue that it's impact as "prog in a world of muzak" has withered and died.
During an episode of "Life on Mars" not so long ago, a car chase scene was shown to the sound of the Hawks' "Born To Go" and that had me diving for the remote to crank it up to antisocial-behaviour-order level.
That must say something.
 
That guy from Holland. (Ouch)
 
(to think, I used to be one of the guys...........how soon they forget......still,  I supose that makes me more HW than PF)
 
ps. Reading through the comments on this thread, I find (not surprisingly to me) that my own opinion on this subject is most akin to that of the mighty Blacksword. He gets it.


Edited by emdiar - October 27 2009 at 06:13
Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact.
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Points: 10261 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2009 at 07:07
Hawkwind were an early love of mine. When my brother, who is ten years older than I am, discovered them, they were all the rage among his friends (together with Gong, Magma, Can, VdGG, Tangerine Dream and other bands like that). "Sweet smoke" was in the air all the time around them, candle light was the only illumination, there were incense sticks burning, and Hawkwind are an ideal band for that scenario.
I used to hang around in my brother's room when his friends were present and was considered to be a kind of mascot by them. All the strange sounds in the music they heard intrigued me a lot, and I fantasized about eerie things, probably induced by the curtain of sweet smoke in the air.


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Points: 6898 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2009 at 10:07
Another thing.
 I don`t think I can walk for more than an hour in the summertime in downtown Montréal and see two three four or even five DSOTM T-shirts. I`ve got three Hawkwind T- Shirts which were acquired with great difficulty through a guy who has a headshop on Rue St. Denis. The big headshop on St. Catherine St has a huge row of official and unofficial PF T-shirts. I managed to snap a Yes Relayer T-shirt out of there. I asked the guy if he could get some Hawkwind shirts and he didn`t have a clue who I was talking about. I just sort of politely said, " nevermind ".
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SonicDeath10 View Drop Down
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Points: 282 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2009 at 10:20
So Hawkwind is better because less people know them? Right. They're not worse because less people know them but BETTER? Silly.
"Good evening hippies." Bobby Boy
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Points: 6898 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2009 at 10:26
Not saying that. What I`m saying is that it`s unfortunate that not as many people know them. DSOTM skyrocketed PF into stardom. If it weren`t for that album and the sales it generated they wouldn`t have been promoted the way they were. One thing I can say about Hawkwind though is that anything they put out sells to a certain extent. Even the kazillions of anthologies.
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Points: 282 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2009 at 10:31
Oh okay fair enough. I'd agree with that. Lemmy has been quoted as saying that Hawkwind is just as heavy as Motorhead.
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Points: 10261 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2009 at 10:40
Originally posted by Vibrationbaby Vibrationbaby wrote:

Not saying that. What I`m saying is that it`s unfortunate that not as many people know them. DSOTM skyrocketed PF into stardom. If it weren`t for that album and the sales it generated they wouldn`t have been promoted the way they were. One thing I can say about Hawkwind though is that anything they put out sells to a certain extent. Even the kazillions of anthologies.

The kazillions of anthologies, by the way, are not being issued by the band, and they don't get a penny from the sales.


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Points: 6898 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2009 at 10:42
I saw Motorhead once and once was enough. Not that I don`t like them it`s just that they are F**** loud. I got free tickets and went with a girlfriend and she actually started to cry they were so loud so we had to leave before they played Ace Of Spades.. Never saw Hawkwind though. Lemmy has actually made a few guest appearances with them over the years.
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Points: 169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2009 at 11:21

Barret Floyd´s are incredible, the Piper is simply out of this world- Psychedelia at its naive and terrorific explendor. Theres not any studio disc of Hawkwind who can get to these mythological level.... But first of all, later Floyds are music so gloomy so average and  muzzak-like ( Its true , you can hear them in every coffeshop.... ! I even heard a lounge version of the Dark side in a waiting room!).

Second, the spirit of later Floyd is #ihty ( i mean it), just a group of english bussinesmen wich are done with "these crazy thing of the psychedelic era" just living form the corpse of Barrets genius, who they used without any guiltiness ( all the " we love and remember Syd" thing is a fake). They supssedly high cultured, but is just cerebral, without any kind of revolutionary or real experimental hook. Just the apolinean music of the contrarevolution that leads to the 80. Is so normal that Jhonny Rotten hated them so earnestly......

What takes me to the third point, Hawkwind spirit is great!!  Moorcoock, Calvert, Ladbroke pre-punkism, real activism, Turner and (not to forget) Lemmy. Real dreamers, real squatters. I could be talking for hours but..

Four point, the music.... !Hawkwind! Raw, simple, direct, ultra-spacy. Effective and afecctive ( i have to admit that some of the coolest down tempo songs of hawkwind are Floyd style.. like "The demented man" but hawkwinds one are straight and direct in their simplicity).

What takes us to the final point o.k the Hawks dont have a studio album like the Piper...but they have the only live album that could ever be compared with the Piper... the awesome Space Ritual. Ok nothing can match the interstellatr overdrive but this song is not for every moment while space ritual is equally spacy and hooky.

Its just my opinion.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2009 at 14:13
Originally posted by Vibrationbaby Vibrationbaby wrote:

Not saying that. What I`m saying is that it`s unfortunate that not as many people know them. DSOTM skyrocketed PF into stardom. If it weren`t for that album and the sales it generated they wouldn`t have been promoted the way they were. One thing I can say about Hawkwind though is that anything they put out sells to a certain extent. Even the kazillions of anthologies.
Agreed, tho' technically Atom Heart Mother charted higher than DSOTM in the UK - However it sold consistently for several years after that, so it was a stealth rise to stardom rather than a skyrocket. Harvest's promotion of DSOTM and all other PF albums has never been anything to write home about - it was always the stage shows that drew the attention and gained them album sales - the band themselves aways shied away from publicity and the stardom-machine. Similarly as you said, the Hawks were also consistent  - they toured regularly and sold regularly, just not at the same scale as Floyd.
What?
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2009 at 14:34
Originally posted by shockedjazz shockedjazz wrote:

Second, the spirit of later Floyd is #ihty ( i mean it), just a group of english bussinesmen wich are done with "these crazy thing of the psychedelic era" just living form the corpse of Barrets genius, who they used without any guiltiness ( all the " we love and remember Syd" thing is a fake). They supssedly high cultured, but is just cerebral, without any kind of revolutionary or real experimental hook. Just the apolinean music of the contrarevolution that leads to the 80. Is so normal that Jhonny Rotten hated them so earnestly......

Your opinion and your perspective - but not that of the band themselves, who have been against the business side of the music industry since the end of the 60s - don't forget they saw first hand Syd's break-down, and rather than the cynical view you think they have/had, they were his friends before they were band-mates. The theme of Wish You Were Here and The Wall was something they had covered before, first in 1969 with Cymberline and again in 1972 with Free Four. I can hear Gilmour singing A  Pocketful of Stones and not doubt his sincerity for one minute.
 
Also, John Lydon never hated Pink Floyd, he just used them as a vehicle to propel his own stardom (http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/story/rotten-i-love-pink-floyd)
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Points: 6797 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2009 at 14:48
^  He was also a big fan of HW and the Sex Pistols played a (rather dodgy) version of Silver Machine on their recent tour. 
 
Conclusive Proof HW are better of course! Wink
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Points: 10261 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2009 at 15:07
Speaking of "Silver Machine": The song actually is about a bicycle. Which leads us back full cycle:
"I've got a bike,
you can ride it if you like
it's got a basket, a belt that rings
and things
to make it look good.
I'd give it to you if I could,
but I borrowed it".


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Points: 282 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2009 at 15:10
Originally posted by shockedjazz shockedjazz wrote:

 Second, the spirit of later Floyd is #ihty ( i mean it), just a group of english bussinesmen wich are done with "these crazy thing of the psychedelic era" just living form the corpse of Barrets genius, who they used without any guiltiness ( all the " we love and remember Syd" thing is a fake). They supssedly high cultured, but is just cerebral, without any kind of revolutionary or real experimental hook. Just the apolinean music of the contrarevolution that leads to the 80. Is so normal that Jhonny Rotten hated them so earnestly......
LOL How misinformed! You can have your opinion on music and that's fine. If you don't like the band that's cool, I support that. But your "opinion" is actually a lie. Pink Floyd never made a lot of money in the 70's. Their popular albums sold very well, this is true, but SO much of that money went into the pocket of the label, making the next album, and touring. Rock and roll was not profitable until the 80's. In fact, the band completely screwed the pooch (well, Roger did anyways) with The Wall tour. They had to invest in it heavily and ended up stopping the tour because they were essentially all out of money. The whole massive Pink Floyd tours in the 80's and 90's were done because the band was poor. Roger probably had quite a bit of money from songwriting royalties, but the rest of the band had nothing. These massive world tours were, I admit, for money. But every musician tours for money. I don't understand how people don't understand that. Do you think Hawkwind does free tours?! I know they've done free shows (Isle of Wight 1969) but they want money, they NEED money to continue being a band. That's just the way it is, man.
 
Also, David Gilmour has stopped taking royalty checks from Pink Floyd or his solo career. He donates any profits he gets from his album sales or tour sales and donates it to charities. I'm not talking one penny out of every dollar I'm talking 100%. He has a lot of money, granted, but how corporate is it for him to be donating his money every chance he gets? After Live 8 when Floyd got back together, their album sales skyrocketed something like 1000%. He donated all of that to charity. And that's not an opinion: that's a FACT.
"Good evening hippies." Bobby Boy
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emdiar View Drop Down
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Points: 890 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2009 at 16:40
^^Actually, Rick Wright made money on the Wall tour. This was because Waters sacked him from the band, and had to pay him wages to play as a session musician. Nice one.
 
"There is no f***ing Pink Floyd! I am Pink Floyd!", R Waters.
Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact.
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emdiar View Drop Down
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Points: 890 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2009 at 16:50
Hey, just thought of another similarity. Both bands have suffered an ugly and litigious schism, rendering key members of the band mortal enemies for life. Brock v Turner, Waters v the rest of the band.
 
Oh, and please don't direct me to you tube clips of Rog and Dave hugging on camera; I've seen 'em, and the thinly veiled look of loathing in the formers eyes gives me shivers.


Edited by emdiar - October 27 2009 at 16:51
Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact.
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SonicDeath10 View Drop Down
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Points: 282 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2009 at 21:26
Originally posted by emdiar emdiar wrote:

^^Actually, Rick Wright made money on the Wall tour. This was because Waters sacked him from the band, and had to pay him wages to play as a session musician. Nice one.
 
"There is no f***ing Pink Floyd! I am Pink Floyd!", R Waters.
Yeah sh*t I knew that. I sorta felt bad for Nick and Dave but f**k Roger in that case. Did he really say that? What a dick! LOL
"Good evening hippies." Bobby Boy
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Points: 7053 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2009 at 01:19
A closer comparison might actually be Hawkwind v Pink Fairies
It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough.
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Points: 169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2009 at 09:43
Maybe yesterday i was too hard on my judge on the Post Syd Floyd´s:
For sure they were experimental, influential ( and one they influenced for sure were the Hawks- but as i say just for the gloomy songs) for all the scene.  I like some parts of "Animals" "Wish you were here" "Ummagumma"..... but they generaly live me with a coldish feeling (even if they have really good songs), it seems they making something ultraconceptual, in a simphonic aproach, its never the real experimentation of the Piper. Also the depressing bitterness of the "Remembering Syd" albums makes me sick, even if i like some biterrness ........and i think is because as i say i dont believe in the we remember Syd thing, i seen several documentary i really dont believe the guys that kicked the ass of Barret so easily to be crying honestly for him, but thats my opinion.
Also the music before Syd makes me feel like "we lost our fellow mate by these stupid drug, psychedelic, fantastical thing and we are advising you what would happen to you- Stay cool while you pretend to be cool". Psychedelic moods against the psychedelic perspective.
 
All i can say is that the post barret albums deliver some kind of reflexive music that is not in any way spontaneous and i dont like that ( meanly because i have the Piper in mind- otherwise things will be different).
About the bussiness skills of Floyd........¿You are telling me they are not rich? I dont think so, they are like  a trademark. Also Hawkwind but not a so commercial one ( you must be rich if you have lounge versions of your discs sounding in waiting rooms around the world- is a joke) LOL
And Lydon in the times he was Rotten ( nowadays he is just saying silly things like the Pistols  had a christian message...Oh maybe "Bodies" but hilarious in anyway) said the only group for him were the Hawks and is obvious why.....they were not a bunch of "fluffy bunnies".
The Hawks knows how to rock.....and the Post Syd Floyds knows how to make operas...is a matter of taste.
And not everyone that desagrees with you is an ignorant is a mateter of different perspectives.
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