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A B Negative 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 02 2006
Location: Methil Republic
Status: Offline
Points: 1594
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 Topic: Don't knock the (punk) rock!
Posted: September 03 2007 at 06:34 |
I'm fed up with the theory that punk killed prog, and the idea that you have to spend years in training before you can make enjoyable music is ludicrous to me.
I'm a fan of many types of music and two of my favourites are prog and punk. As punk seems to be unfairly maligned by many on this site, I decided to set up this thread for like-minded fans of both punk and prog to discuss our anarchic side!
I love Sex Pistols, Damned, Ruts, Stiff Little Fingers, Exploited, Crass, the list goes on and on.
Sometimes I want to listen to all of Tales from Topographic Oceans, sometimes I'd rather batter the bejayzus out of my guitar along with the Ramones. What about you?
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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: September 03 2007 at 07:19 |
Punk has its place in the musical pantheon, but for me it is a very narrow genre with a small core of tru-punk bands that flared briefly and died and a whole echelon of imitators that have hung on to the image of punk without instilling the idealism and ethos that created it (such as The Misfits, NOFX, and the Johnny-come-latelies like the Offspring and Green Day). Personally I could care less for them, but I do like the more intelligent (i.e. those who did spend years learning their craft) post-punk and new wave bands that followed (Siouxsie, Toyah, XTC, Magazine, Television, The Cure, etc.)
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Yukorin
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 21 2005
Location: Japan
Status: Offline
Points: 1589
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Posted: September 03 2007 at 07:22 |
Totally agree. The two aren't mutually exclusive to love. Got tons and tons of punk/new-wave sevens and LPs. The creativity back then knocks me senseless.
Would love to post The Anti-Nowhere League's lyrics to 'So What'. But I won't
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: September 03 2007 at 16:41 |
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I listen to a fair share of old 90's Emo these days, which is a subgenre of Hardcore which is a subgenre of Punk. So I like quite a bit of Punk actually. As for more widely known stuff, I have Television's Marquee Moon and I like it a lot. Is there anything more by Television worth getting?
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spo1977
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 09 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 285
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Posted: September 03 2007 at 20:51 |
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I enjoy the Damned, Machine Gun, Black Album, Strawberries. Their earlier punk albums are ok, but sort of 1 dimensional.
I like NWOBHM, not punk, but simple rock.
Edited by spo1977 - September 03 2007 at 20:52
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Dim
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 17 2007
Location: Austin TX
Status: Offline
Points: 6890
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Posted: September 03 2007 at 22:08 |
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I respect all music (except gangsta rap), but punk is low on my standards, cause after you've heard one song, you have heard all of punk! Like dean said, It's very narrow, with three chord verse chorus verse songs and twenty nine minuete long albums. Dont deny with that sentence I summed up 75% of punk.
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: September 03 2007 at 22:15 |
 But the punks LIKE it when we knock them around -- it helps them feel persecuted.... 
 Everybody SLAM DANCE!
"All the kids wanna have somethin to do / All the kids wanna sniff some glue..."
I can diggit.
Edited by Peter - September 03 2007 at 22:19
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Yorkie X
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 04 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1049
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Posted: September 03 2007 at 22:27 |
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their are some prog bands with a little punk in them recently I was listening to Twelfth Night and I can hear some anti establishment sentiments in them, also correct me if I`'m wrong but "Script For a Jester's Tear" (Garden Party , Forgotten Sons) has a certain anti establishment charm about it too. If Punk can get past the regular format they tend to use and expand into new territories I`m sure lots of prog heads would be interested.
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A B Negative
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 02 2006
Location: Methil Republic
Status: Offline
Points: 1594
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Posted: September 04 2007 at 04:25 |
 Philéas wrote:
I have Television's Marquee Moon and I like it a lot. Is there anything more by Television worth getting? |
Although I haven't heard it, live album The Blow Up is highly rated.
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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."
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A B Negative
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 02 2006
Location: Methil Republic
Status: Offline
Points: 1594
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Posted: September 04 2007 at 04:27 |
schizoid_man77 wrote:
I respect all music (except gangsta rap), but punk is low on my standards, cause after you've heard one song, you have heard all of punk! Like dean said, It's very narrow, with three chord verse chorus verse songs and twenty nine minuete long albums. Dont deny with that sentence I summed up 75% of punk. |
Most classic punk uses 4 chords... 
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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: September 04 2007 at 04:32 |
A B Negative wrote:
Philéas wrote:
I have Television's Marquee Moon and I like it a lot. Is there anything more by Television worth getting? |
Although I haven't heard it, live album The Blow Up is highly rated. |
The follow-up to Marquee Moon was Adventure - a bit more polished, but somehow not as vibrant.
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What?
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A B Negative
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 02 2006
Location: Methil Republic
Status: Offline
Points: 1594
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Posted: September 04 2007 at 04:35 |
Yorkie X wrote:
their are some prog bands with a little punk in them recently I was listening to Twelfth Night and I can hear some anti establishment sentiments in them, also correct me if I`'m wrong but "Script For a Jester's Tear" (Garden Party , Forgotten Sons) has a certain anti establishment charm about it too. If Punk can get past the regular format they tend to use and expand into new territories I`m sure lots of prog heads would be interested.
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Haven't heard Twelfth Night but the attitude of early Marillion is one of the things I like about them.
As for expanding into new territorries, try The Damned. Curtain Call takes up the whole of side 3 of The Black Album. (What? A punk band made a double album with a track that takes up a whole side?!?!?)
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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition
Joined: April 10 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3928
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Posted: September 04 2007 at 06:07 |
I think Marillion, and the neo prog movement in general, was probably prog's response to punk in some ways. Most of the bands are more direct; Fish's lyrics are certainly easier to make sense of than Jon Anderson's!! The bands also tended to take some inspiration from the punk bands; see the amount of singles Marillion willingly released compared to their predecessors (I think singles were often looked down upon by most prog/heavy rock acts of the 70s, or taken to be something of a necessary evil) and some of the bands released albums/singles on independent labels rather than major labels.
I don't tend to be much of a punk fan as a rule, but I don't hate it either. What's more, some fine bands came out of that period; The Police, Talking Heads, XTC, The Stranglers, Public Image Ltd., The Damned, Magazine and The Jam were making excellent music in the late 70s/ 80s that was a million miles away from punk which I find to be rather a dead-end, musically speaking, however much the critics claim otherwise. The best bands evolved; the likes of Sham 69 (who actually released a concept album, unbelievably!!), UK Subs and that Captain Oi! movement lot did not. AFAIK, they are still knocking out the same old sort of stuff now!
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A B Negative
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 02 2006
Location: Methil Republic
Status: Offline
Points: 1594
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Posted: September 04 2007 at 06:22 |
I've seen the UK Subs a couple of times in the last few years. You're right, Salmacis, they are still knocking out the same old sort of stuff now. It's what the ageing punks want to hear, much like wanting Genesis to get back with Gabriel and Hackett and relive the glory days of the 70s.
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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."
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Guzzman
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 21 2004
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 3563
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Posted: September 04 2007 at 11:01 |
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I wonder why nobody mentioned The Clash. They were a punk outfit but on London Calling and Sandinista they experimented with other genres like reggae, jazz or rockabilly and the result I find absolutely and truly amazing!
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"We've got to get in to get out"
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NotAProghead
Special Collaborator
Errors & Omissions Team
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 7852
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Posted: September 04 2007 at 11:36 |
"Punk's not dead. It only smells like it's dead" (unknown author). 
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Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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darren
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 31 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 452
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Posted: September 04 2007 at 11:59 |
I know my biggest disappointment in this forum is that I thought prog fans would be more open minded about all forms of music. Some seem to think that if you like any nonprog rock that it somehow diminishes your intellect.
schizoid_man77 wrote:
I respect all music (except gangsta rap), but punk is low on my standards, cause after you've heard one song, you have heard all of punk! Like dean said, It's very narrow, with three chord verse chorus verse songs and twenty nine minuete long albums. Dont deny with that sentence I summed up 75% of punk. |
... that is right if you take a superficail view.
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"they locked up a man who wanted to rule the world.
the fools
they locked up the wrong man."
- Leonard Cohen
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition
Joined: April 10 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3928
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Posted: September 04 2007 at 12:20 |
The condemning of other genres does exist amongst some prog fans, unfortunately. But I can't help but think the treatment punk gets here is due to the bad press prog gets as a result of punk's positive press. Punk is generally not a genre I choose to listen to on a regular basis, either, but as I said, some good music came out of it.
I've never actually liked The Clash much, for whatever reason. They are one of those 'big' bands I've never managed to get into at all (Guns 'N' Roses is another). Don't hate them either though and they were another of those bands that definitely transcended punk (whereas a lot of Guns 'N' Roses' output makes me cringe in horror).
I used to have a few UK Subs albums on vinyl (when I used to hoard all sorts of stuff) and, to me, every track sounded the same, without the diversity that most of the better bands of this era excelled in. But of course, they have their fans.
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
Status: Offline
Points: 16913
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Posted: September 04 2007 at 12:59 |
My favorite are Minutemen. ONe of the few punk bands who could play their instruments well, almost jazz-punk.
D. Boon is the man.
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Mellow Candle
Forum Groupie
Joined: September 03 2007
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 79
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Posted: September 04 2007 at 13:07 |
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I love Misfits with Danzig.
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Waiting for someone or something to show me the way...
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Don't knock the (punk) rock!
