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Snow Dog

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Posted: June 24 2007 at 11:54

el böthy wrote:

And here I thought it would be fun... but no... Cry

Perhaps you should have posted this in "Just For Fun" then?

It seems to belong there, well it did originally but now it seems it could be going elsewhere.........

micky wrote:

wow..... and I thought I had a problem with being concise....

just tell me to stick it up my ass Ivan...it's much shorter.. and easier to read hahahha.

Edited by Snow Dog - June 24 2007 at 12:02

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:00

micky wrote:

wow..... and I thought I had a problem with being concise....

just tell me to stick it up my ass Ivan...it's much shorter.. and easier to read hahahha.

I'm assuming that is the gist of what you said... LOL

I need to get back to learning about stress drop and stress rise intonations. Wink

It's hard to be concise when you find so many contradictions ina person's argument..

All of what I said can be and is supported, even you voting for Kansas addition and blaming me after a year.

It's qute funny.

Iván

BTW: I don't need to tell yo to stuick it anywhere, I don't use that kind of language, I use arguments, which you obviously don't have.

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - June 24 2007 at 12:06

Snow Dog

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Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:03

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I need to get back to learning about stress drop and stress rise intonations. Wink

It's hard to be concise when you find so many contradictions ina person's argument..

All of what I said can be and is supported, even you voting for Kansas addition and blaming me after a year.

It's quute funny.

Iván

How the hell do you find all these old posts Ivan? You must have some great filing system!!

andu

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Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:05

He's a lawyer... Everything is future evidence, so beware what you post... Wink

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Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:09

andu wrote:

He's a lawyer... Everything is future evidence, so beware what you post... Wink

No Andu it's only a good menory and using the search function, everything is here.

Micky talks about Jon Lord: I only search Jon Lord, the thread is there

About the Symphonic team additions and moves, I have them all in my head because I use to take things seriously, specially when working on something.

Iván

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Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:13

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

andu wrote:

He's a lawyer... Everything is future evidence, so beware what you post... Wink

No Andu it's only a good menory and using the search function, everything is here.

Micky talks about Jon Lord: I only search Jon Lord, the thread is there

About the Symphonic team additions and moves, I have them all in my head because I use to take things seriously, specially when working on something.

Iván

I remember other times. You seem to drag out old posts like a magician from his hat!

andu

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Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:18

Still I'm sure Ivan has bookmarked plenty of pages just in case... And when someone steps wrong, he's done! Just think of the Progger incidents, he didn't stand a chance. I'm guess there's a whole "Progger" bookmarks directory in Ivan's browser... just in case.

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Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:25

Why are you all abusing el böthy's thread? This is about genre descriptions of bands and albums, not about what happened during the symphonic prog cleanup.

Release Polls

Listened to:

Snow Dog

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Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:27

MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Why are you all abusing el böthy's thread? This is about genre descriptions of bands and albums, not about what happened during the symphonic prog cleanup.

Abusing it? It went off the rails after the first post!

micky

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Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:31

oh goodie. this shall be fun hahhahah

I wasn't fair to you Ivan..since you wasted so much time on me.... let me return the favor hahha

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

micky wrote:

ahhh... to tie a couple of threads together Ivan... let me say what others would like to say.. and I will say of course..... take a valium and give it a rest. Who defines what is or is not prog... symphonic. or whatever. You don't... the listener does. It is the weakness of this site where a select few with their preconceived notions of what is and is not something rule.

That's why the owners created teams, some of us work still omhn hem, others abandon them when the hard work starts, that's the difference

and some people have no life Ivan..... I left the symhonic team when my marriage fell apart asshole. And I am temporarily away from the two teams ..while I make a new life for myself. Listen here.... buddy.... this site may be life and death for you and a measure of your self worth for failing in YOUR personal life. It isn't for me.. I come to have fun... and when it stopped being fun I took a break. Is that clear enough for you.

That is the underlying reason why I pushed RPI.. to eliminate that subjective view and classification of prog on musical terms. You don't know what is or is not symphonic any better than me or anyone here.

Well you were a proud member (At least un name when you were not "on license") fo several monts of the SYMPHONIC SUB-GENRE TEAM, you added and retired bands from the saun-gentre.

You proudly show the banner of Art Rock Specialist (Another name for member opf the Art Rock team) and RPI Team (Well, still RPI doesn't eist).

So you were not only part of this teams you now attack (A you attack the owners, Administrators and Collaborators), it's at least very hypocritical of you...you will answer you're no longer part of them, maybe because the hard work started.

Maybe I don't know more about Symphonic than many people here, but for that reason WE HAVE A TEAM, of members, most of the time the Collaborators and Administrators agree with what we do, (As you did but now you forget and omit), I wrote the Symphonivc Prog definition with the approbal of the Collaborators (After being posted for some time and there were no objections, a definition you also praised ).....So at leastt someyhing I know, and the most impoirtant, I doon't abandon my team when the work starts.

You've crossed the line..... see above.... and and the worst part is. You knew my marriage was falling apart. Shame on you....

I've said enough... hope you are happy with yourself.

That is why these subs are a source of ridicule elsewhere... and even here as was the point of the OP. You have Kansas in symphonic for god's sake hahhaha.

YOU VOTED FOR THE INCLUSION OF KANSAS AS A SYMPHONIC TEAM MEMBER, YOU NEVER DOUBTED ABOUT THEM WHEN YOU WHERE A MEMBER OF THE TEAM, NOW YOU SPEAK, BECAUSE YOUR FAVORITE SPORTS IS TO CRITICIZE WHAT OTHERS DO INSTEAD OF WORKING,

Let me inform you.... since you think you have it all figured out..

I voted for Kansas since I was not a fan and hadn't heard all of their discography. In short I differed to you since I assumed you were objective.

I had wondered why you didn't show me the same consideration when I wanted to add Jon Lord. You obvioiusly didn't have any clue about his music. Yet you didn't show any regard for another collaborators opinion. I think you will regret that someday... trust me hahhaah

as far as anything else you wrote... piss off.... you aren't worth the time. This is obviously a personal vendetta for you against me. It's personal... and that bus stops right here.. right now.

Michael

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Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:33

MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Why are you all abusing el böthy's thread? This is about genre descriptions of bands and albums, not about what happened during the symphonic prog cleanup.

I get your point Mike, but if I'm mentioned I have to exoplain how the things really are.

Lets accept it, once a thread leaves the hands of the creator, it has it's own life and goes wherever we take it, it's natural, happens all the time.

If people avoided attacking others, there would be no need for lenghty replies (Not referroing to you Mike).

Iván

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Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:35

I'm a hypocrite for saying it, and feeling are running high, but this is not for the public forum.

I know, I know......I've done worse.

Ricochet

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Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:37

"bicker, bicker, bicker, bicker" - Adrian Belew

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Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:59

Micky wrote:

and some people have no life Ivan..... I left the symhonic team when my marriage fell apart asshole. And I am temporarily away from the two teams ..while I make a new life for myself. Listen here.... buddy.... this site may be life and death for you and a measure of your self worth for failing in YOUR personal life. It isn't for me.. I come to have fun... and when it stopped being fun I took a break. Is that clear enough for you.

No Micky, you left Symphonic for other reasons and you know them, because if you were really worried for another external issues you would had worked on them.

But no, you immediately assumed the Art Rock Team because you wanted control of it and you got it, then instead on focusing on your problems you went in the crusade for RPI.

You left Symphonic to assume TWO TEAMS, so your priorities were others.

Please omit the insults and trying to make me feel guilty, I know you very well, if you had left for personal reasons you would have left Prog Archives, not taken the responsibility of TWO OTHER SUB-GENRES.

You've crossed the line..... see above.... and and the worst part is. You knew my marriage was falling apart. Shame on you....

I’m not responsible for your marriage, so don’t try to blame me, it’s pathetic, you left Symphonic to be the head of twop teams, be honest with yourself.

I've said enough... hope you are happy with yourself.

Yes, I’m happy with myself, everybody has problems in their lifes and lives with them, if I had a problem in mine, I would leave the team inmediatelñy and focus in the solution of this problems, not accepted two other sub-genres.

Let me inform you.... since you think you have it all figured out..

I voted for Kansas since I was not a fan and hadn't heard all of their discography. In short I differed to you since I assumed you were objective.

So you vote without knowing the band????

Sorry, but I first get informed about something before voting, you voted for them it was moved with your approval, so don’t throw your responsibilities or lack of them in others

I had wondered why you didn't show me the same consideration when I wanted to add Jon Lord.

Because I take my responsibilities seriously, I don’t vote for something before getting informed, I supported my vote and my opinion from the start.

My responsibility is for the people who choose me for a work, If I believe (As I believed from the start) that Jon Lord is not a Symphonic artist, I won’t accept him to make you or anybody a favor or a courtesy, my responsibility is with Prog Archives and he day I feel my this work collisions with my life, I will leave it, not to take another team, not to take two teams, that would be dishonest, I would leave it for good

You obvioiusly didn't have any clue about his music. Yet you didn't show any regard for another collaborators opinion. I think you will regret that someday... trust me hahhaah

Most of the collaborators voted against the inclusion of Jon Lord in Prog Symphonic, my team voted against in majority, Bob made a solid argument, Sean even thought (As many others) that he should be in Proig Related at the most READ YOUR THREAD

I never vote withoiut knowing a band or an artist, you have accepted in this pst you voted for Kansas without knowing the band, that's something I never did and never will.

as far as anything else you wrote... piss off.... you aren't worth the time. This is obviously a personal vendetta for you against me. It's personal... and that bus stops right here.. right now.

Vendetta??? Are you crazy? You started your attacks in this and every thread, BEFORE I EVEN JOINED THIS THREAD

micky
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Posted: Yesterday at 03:36

what is symphonic..... we have people here who think that Jon Lord's solo albums aren't symphonic

This was a direct attack and I hadn’t even posted in this thread before, so check what you write and don’t blame others for what you start.

I don't have any reason for a vendetta, as a fact I have never searched for revenge, that's too cheap for me, seems you like vendetta because each time you rejoin the forum, you start again messing with Symphoonic.

The day you left Symphonic and made your team I accepted your decision, we are advancing faster than ever so why I should have a vendetta?????

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - June 24 2007 at 13:48

Snow Dog

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Posted: June 24 2007 at 13:20

what is symphonic..... we have people here who think that Jon Lord's solo albums aren't symphonic

Not a direct attack on you Ivan IMO. Just a statement.. I see no reference to you at all. You infer an attack.

Sorry to interrupt.

Edited by Snow Dog - June 24 2007 at 13:21

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Posted: June 24 2007 at 13:40

Snow Dog wrote:

what is symphonic..... we have people here who think that Jon Lord's solo albums aren't symphonic

Not a direct attack on you Ivan IMO. Just a statement.. I see no reference to you at all. You infer an attack.

Sorry to interrupt.

SD, please read the Jon Lord's thread, we were pushed to accept Jon Lord at any cost, we were accused, each time there is a chance there are reference to this rejection.

And it's not in this thread alone, read all the other related threads my friend and you will see that despite I was trying to ignore Micky, his reference are repetitive.

I only made clear why MY TEAM (At least the majority) didn't accepted Jon Lord, each team knows how to do their work, I believe we had advanced a lot, more than some teams, I never told Micky how to do his job in Art Rock or RPI, by the contrary, you may ask Chus, Ricochet or Atavachron, we were there to help them whenever they had a problem.

All we ask is that we are left to do our work, we inform the Collaborators every week (You can check our threads in the Genre section), that's all we ask,m to be allowed to work.

I could quote many things or talk about ,my personal life but it's not the forum problem.

Iván

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Posted: June 24 2007 at 13:46

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

what is symphonic..... we have people here who think that Jon Lord's solo albums aren't symphonic

Not a direct attack on you Ivan IMO. Just a statement.. I see no reference to you at all. You infer an attack.

Sorry to interrupt.

SD, please read the Jon Lord's thread, we were pushed to accept Jon Lord at any cost, we were accused, each time there is a chance there are reference to this rejection.

And it's not in this thread alone, read all the other related threads my friend and you will see that despite I was trying to ignore Micky, his reference are repetitive.

All we ask is that we are left to do our work, we inform the Collaborators every week (You can check our threads in the Genre section), that's all we ask,m to be allowed to work.

I could quote many things or talk about ,my personal life but it's not the forum problem.

Iván

Please Ivan. In Mickys post IN THIS THREAD ALONE, he makes no attack on you by name. Now its obvious you have history and you may be right that it is a veiled attack, but I stand by my observation.

To the casual reader...there is no attack.

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Posted: June 24 2007 at 14:00

Snow Dog wrote:

Please Ivan. In Mickys post IN THIS THREAD ALONE, he makes no attack on you by name. Now its obvious you have history and you may be right that it is a veiled attack, but I stand by my observation.

To the casual reader...there is no attack.

Not for the casual visitor Snow Dog, but this comes fropm some time ago.

I never messed with the work of other teams, that's what I ask from Micky or everybody once a decision is taken.

You know each time we make a change, a move ot any advance, we notify the Collaborators before, they have a chance to obkect tgis, the Jon Lord issue was treated in many threads trying to force us to accept him, we won't, we explained our reasons.

This issue should be left behind, the Administrators have approved the inclusion in Prog Related, so lets leave that issue behind instead of starting it again each time he visits the forum.

Read my first reply it was clear asking to respect our decisions in the Symphonic team, that's all I ask.

and I was replied by him again:

You have Kansas in symphonic for god's sake hahhaha. Yet said an artist who set out to purposefully fuse classical and rock...wasn't symphonic. and you dare say this site is losing credibility... the only one losing it is yourself I dare say. LOL

For God's sake, Kansas is here BECAUSE OF HIS VOTE!!!!!!!!

And he dares to accuse me af if he had nothing to do and what's his excuse: "I didn't knew Kansas" If I don't know a band I do the honest thisng as Salmacis I DON'T VOTE, but if I approve a change, I don't blame anybody for it, I accept I was part of it and shut my mouth.

BTW: I still believe Kansas is mainly a Symphonic band.

Please SD, check if I ever mentioned him in any thread until myself, my team or our work was mentioned and/or questioned.

Thanks

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - June 24 2007 at 14:07

Snow Dog

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Posted: June 24 2007 at 14:10

Ok Ivan.....we both made our points. Time to let this thread return to its intended use maybe.

micky

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Posted: June 24 2007 at 14:41

Snow Dog wrote:

Ok Ivan.....we both made our points. Time to let this thread return to its intended use maybe.

very wise indeed.. which bring me back to my original post before Ivan flipped out on us..and ...thank you Ivan. Showed us exactly how you feel....I had told the admins it was personal towards me.... and you proved in flowing blue font. LOL

back on topic...

my post was not an attack... but a question.... unfortunately some here are blinded by ...whatever blinds them to see that. You completely misunderstood the meanings of Clarkes post's Ivan... and you did here.as well.

el böthy wrote:

the genre within the genre within... etc

You know how sometimes the whole genre´s thing just makes us forget about the music? Tagging, tagging and more tagging, just makes things sad... well... those arguments are all very nice... lets forget them!

SO, here the idea of this topic is to make a total distription of a band, tagging it, but not "superficially", but going really all the way, in making the distingtion from it with other bands... as I dont know if I have expressed myself correctly, Ill show with an example!

Emerson, Lake & Palmer

"Modern classical symphonic progressive rock trio"

Opeth

"Melodic death progressive metal"

... get the idea??? Ok, you´re next!

I replied....

micky wrote:

what is symphonic..... we have people here who think that Jon Lord's solo albums aren't symphonic LOL

a vaiid question.. about what is symphonic... and just who determines it.

Edited by micky - June 24 2007 at 14:42