Help us improve the site - The genre within the genre within the gen

Print Page | Close Window

The genre within the genre within the gen

Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Site News, Newbies, Help and Improvements
Forum Name: Help us improve the site
Forum Description: Help us improve the forums, and the site as a whole
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=39291
Printed Date: February 24 2025 at 23:23
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com

Topic: The genre within the genre within the gen

Posted By: el böthy
Subject: The genre within the genre within the gen
Date Posted: June 22 2007 at 22:14

the genre within the genre within... etc

You know how sometimes the whole genre´s thing just makes us forget about the music? Tagging, tagging and more tagging, just makes things sad... well... those arguments are all very nice... lets forget them!

SO, here the idea of this topic is to make a total distription of a band, tagging it, but not "superficially", but going really all the way, in making the distingtion from it with other bands... as I dont know if I have expressed myself correctly, Ill show with an example!

Emerson, Lake & Palmer

"Modern classical symphonic progressive rock trio"

Opeth

"Melodic death progressive metal"

... get the idea??? Ok, you´re next!

-------------
"You want me to play what, Robert?"

Replies:

Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: June 22 2007 at 22:53

Well, how about we call ELP symphonic prog, and we call Opeth progressive metal?

-------------

Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: June 22 2007 at 22:53

No.

-------------

Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: June 23 2007 at 00:04

I hate you both

-------------
"You want me to play what, Robert?"

Posted By: Speakerfish
Date Posted: June 23 2007 at 01:44

Yes: Symphonic rock-ish epic-stuffs with-jazzy-leanings-at-times.

-------------
Dissonance; subtle harmonic dissonance
Contemplating and completing the negative space
Romantic symphonies left on the floodplains

Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: June 23 2007 at 01:46

You shouldn't mix the "genre" with the "style".

Obviously mixing it leads to some of the main impression that we're tagging like hell the music we listen and hear "as something", then describe it.

-------------

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 23 2007 at 03:36

what is symphonic..... we have people here who think that Jon Lord's solo albums aren't symphonic LOL

Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 23 2007 at 03:38

You should check out my website ... there you can tag the artists, albums and tracks just like you describe here, el böthy.

Here are the current top albums of 2007 as an example:

1	http://progtology.com/Porcupine-Tree,_dbe,artists,_auto_7062387.xhtml - - Porcupine Tree http://www.myspace.com/porcupinetree"> - http://progtology.com/Porcupine-Tree-Fear-of-a-Blank-Planet,_dbe,albums,_auto_1406729.xhtml - - Fear of a Blank Planet magnificent (9.4 / 13) Genre: Melancholic/Concept Modern Prog Rock/Independent	http://progtology.com/db/albums/_auto_1406729.xhtml">
2	http://progtology.com/Neal-Morse,_dbe,artists,_auto_4082071.xhtml - - Neal Morse - http://progtology.com/Neal-Morse-Sola-Scriptura,_dbe,albums,_auto_7464253.xhtml - - Sola Scriptura http://www.emusic.com/album/Neal-Morse-Sola-Scriptura-MP3-Download/11000284.html"> magnificent (9.2 / 6) Genre: Christian/Symphonic Modern Prog Rock	http://progtology.com/db/albums/_auto_7464253.xhtml">
3	http://progtology.com/Lazuli,_dbe,artists,_auto_7546834.xhtml - - Lazuli http://www.myspace.com/sylvainbayol"> - http://progtology.com/Lazuli-En-Avant-Doute,_dbe,albums,_auto_552933.xhtml - - En Avant Doute masterpiece (9.6 / 2) Genre: Weird/Quirky Modern Partially Prog Independent	http://progtology.com/db/albums/_auto_552933.xhtml">
4	http://progtology.com/Dream-Theater,_dbe,artists,_auto_2975143.xhtml - - Dream Theater http://www.myspace.com/dreamtheater"> - http://progtology.com/Dream-Theater-Systematic-Chaos,_dbe,albums,_auto_4991585.xhtml - - Systematic Chaos excellent (9.0 / 5) Genre: Quirky/Melodic Modern Prog Metal	http://progtology.com/db/albums/_auto_4991585.xhtml">
5	http://progtology.com/Grayceon,_dbe,artists,_auto_8687215.xhtml - - Grayceon http://www.myspace.com/grayceon"> - http://progtology.com/Grayceon-Grayceon,_dbe,albums,_auto_3936908.xhtml - - Grayceon magnificent (9.5 / 1) Genre: Prog Metal	http://progtology.com/db/albums/_auto_3936908.xhtml">
6	http://progtology.com/Beardfish,_dbe,artists,_auto_1229993.xhtml - - Beardfish - http://progtology.com/Beardfish-Sleeping-in-Traffic-Part-One,_dbe,albums,_auto_5166298.xhtml - - Sleeping in Traffic: Part One http://www.emusic.com/album/Beardfish-Sleeping-in-traffic-Part-one-MP3-Download/11034526.html"> https://www.insideoutshop.de/product_info.php?products_id=1215&language=en"> magnificent (9.4 / 1) Genre: Eclectic/Melodic Modern Prog Rock	http://progtology.com/db/albums/_auto_5166298.xhtml">
7	http://progtology.com/Thought-Chamber,_dbe,artists,_auto_2616506.xhtml - - Thought Chamber http://www.myspace.com/thoughtchamber"> - http://progtology.com/Thought-Chamber-Angular-Perceptions,_dbe,albums,_auto_6588675.xhtml - - Angular Perceptions http://www.emusic.com/album/Thought-Chamber-Angular-Perceptions-MP3-Download/11011108.html"> magnificent (9.4 / 1) Genre: Quirky/Melodic Modern Prog Metal	http://progtology.com/db/albums/_auto_6588675.xhtml">
8	http://progtology.com/John-Zorn,_dbe,artists,_auto_3761481.xhtml - - John Zorn - http://progtology.com/John-Zorn-Six-Litanies-For-Heliogabalus,_dbe,albums,_auto_4158448.xhtml - - Six Litanies For Heliogabalus magnificent (9.4 / 1) Genre: Weird/Quirky Prog Independent/Metal/Jazz	http://progtology.com/db/albums/_auto_4158448.xhtml">
9	http://progtology.com/Devin-Townsend,_dbe,artists,_auto_9062391.xhtml - - Devin Townsend http://www.myspace.com/devintownsenddtb"> - http://progtology.com/Devin-Townsend-Ziltoid-the-Omniscient,_dbe,albums,_auto_7988262.xhtml - - Ziltoid the Omniscient http://www.emusic.com/album/Devin-Townsend-Presents-Ziltoid-the-Omniscient-MP3-Download/11034534.html"> http://www.myspace.com/ziltoidtheomniscient"> magnificent (9.1 / 2) Genre: Weird Modern Prog Speed Metal	http://progtology.com/db/albums/_auto_7988262.xhtml">
10	http://progtology.com/Threshold,_dbe,artists,_auto_1729526.xhtml - - Threshold http://www.myspace.com/thresholdofficial"> - http://progtology.com/Threshold-Dead-Reckoning,_dbe,albums,_auto_9678654.xhtml - - Dead Reckoning magnificent (9.1 / 2) Genre: Melodic Modern Prog Metal	http://progtology.com/db/albums/_auto_9678654.xhtml">

-------------
https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls

Listened to:

Posted By: febus
Date Posted: June 23 2007 at 09:28

What if we just listen to the music and enjoy it and stop all those pseudo intellectual masturbations

Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: June 23 2007 at 09:30

febus wrote:

What if we just listen to the music and enjoy it and stop all those pseudo intellectual masturbations

VERY strong word, there's no disrespect, disregard, abuse or insolite meaning in having an impression on what the music, by default, expresses to you. It's quite natural to think of something, of something, upon a music touching you, technically, expressively, spiritually...so on.

Of course, there's the tranquil joy of music being listened and adores in a relaxed way and an ease...and that's a master human feeling too. Cool

-------------

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 23 2007 at 09:35

febus wrote:

What if we just listen to the music and enjoy it and stop all those pseudo intellectual masturbations

or better yet..... let those who don't have the mental facilities to masturbate.. just listen to it and let the whole basis of prog... stimultating thought.. you know..thinking, pass you by. LOL

Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: June 23 2007 at 15:00

And here I thought it would be fun... but no... Cry

-------------
"You want me to play what, Robert?"

Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: June 23 2007 at 15:08

febus wrote:

What if we just listen to the music and enjoy it and stop all those pseudo intellectual masturbations

I agree completely. In fact, I say we close down the forums on prog archives because surely all of this discussion of music and other interesting topics serves no useful purpose.

-------------
I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?

Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 23 2007 at 15:11

el böthy wrote:

And here I thought it would be fun... but no... Cry

Just try to ignore the negative comments and focus on the constructive ones! Approve

-------------
https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls

Listened to:

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 23 2007 at 15:42

micky wrote:

what is symphonic..... we have people here who think that Jon Lord's solo albums aren't symphonic LOL

Yes Micky, we are the ones who don't believe Jon Lord is Symphonic, most of the people who participate in youir thread about Jon Lord believed he's not Symphonic (A lot believe he's not even Prog).

When you were in charge of Art Rock we respected your opinions and your decisions in the genres you were in charge of, respect our's, you resigned to the Symphonic team for Art Rock and RPI (To which you also apparently resigned).

Without ythe need of doing it (You never asked anybody outside your team before you added a band, you just added it), we explained our reasons, Bob made a whole explanation album by album:

Before I forget – hard rock, classical, blues, symphonic, jazz, theatrical, pop, big band
Beyond the notes – symphonic, classical/orchestral, jazz, theatrical, pop
First of the big bands – big band, blues, jazz, folk, rock
Gemini Suite – symphonic, jazz/fusion
Pictured within – pop, classical/orchestral, theatrical
Sarabande – symphonic, classical/orchestral, jazz/fusion, dance/Latin
Windows – opera, classical, theatrical, fusion/funk
Hoochie coochie – blues, funk, rock, country

We not only shouted like you Jon Lord is Symphonic and you must accept him, we checked album by album and explained with details why we didn't believed Jon Lord belongs in Symphonic.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

1.- IMHO He's Neo Classical more than Prog.

2.- His music gathers influences from Neo Classical, Jazz, Rock and a bit of Prog.

3.- His OFFICIAL site qualifies him as Classical.

4.- His last two albums are being sold as Classical not as Prog.

5.- Only Proggnosis says he's Prog.

6.- GEPR, Progressive Ears, Ground & Sky, Progressor, Manticornio, La Caja de Música doesn't consider him Prog.

7.- Gnosis makes a qualification of 84 voters, more than 70 give 0 as a rating, this means they don't consider his albums Prog.

Iván

So please, let us work, we're doing our work as a team and I believe we're advancing in order and some members INCLUDING YOU proclaimed we were doing a good job:

micky wrote:

Excellent Ivan.... I figured this is where you were going.. and this is where I think we all should go.

Art Rock and RPI will go the same way down the road

here.. have a couple of clappies.. you deserve them

Clap

And then you insisted:

micky wrote:

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Thanks Micky but not, the clappies are for THE SYMPHONIC TEAM, this is a group work that is only about to start, but BOB and HT have done as much as me, HT who doesn't like to drive, has been walking all day long (And working) with his IPOD to listen samples and key bands, BOB has been sacrificing time with his son who´s leaving for College and managing to work and still check all the material and bands.

It's been hard, but it's going to be harder...what the hell, we´re used to it.

Iván

once again.. this seems to be a pattern.. not inteneded as a slight towards the team LOL

once your boss.. always your boss I guess hahahhah.

Good job symphomaniacs.. it's obvious you all put a lot of work into it. Have a couple of clappies yourselfs..

Clap

+ a bonus clappie Clap

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=34538&KW=structure - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=34538&KW=structure

It's easy to take your position and criticize what the Owners, Administrators and teams do, but it's harder to finish a work you started, if we receive lemons we make lemonade, but we don't leave an incomplete work behind, we finish what we started.

Better worry about finishing something before trying to force the people who are working to do as you want.

Iván

-------------

Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: June 23 2007 at 15:43

el böthy wrote:

And here I thought it would be fun... but no... Cry

The people usually get sour if they have nowhere else to post

-------------

Posted By: The Whistler
Date Posted: June 24 2007 at 02:55

"Awesomest band ever" -Tull

-------------
"There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 24 2007 at 03:58

ahhh... to tie a couple of threads together Ivan... let me say what others would like to say.. and I will say of course..... take a valium and give it a rest. Who defines what is or is not prog... symphonic. or whatever. You don't... the listener does. It is the weakness of this site where a select few with their preconceived notions of what is and is not something rule. That is the underlying reason why I pushed RPI.. to eliminate that subjective view and classification of prog on musical terms. You don't know what is or is not symphonic any better than me or anyone here. That is why these subs are a source of ridicule elsewhere... and even here as was the point of the OP. You have Kansas in symphonic for god's sake hahhaha. Yet said an artist who set out to purposefully fuse classical and rock...wasn't symphonic. and you dare say this site is losing credibility... the only one losing it is yourself I dare say. LOL

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 24 2007 at 11:42

micky wrote:

ahhh... to tie a couple of threads together Ivan... let me say what others would like to say.. and I will say of course..... take a valium and give it a rest. Who defines what is or is not prog... symphonic. or whatever. You don't... the listener does. It is the weakness of this site where a select few with their preconceived notions of what is and is not something rule.

That's why the owners created teams, some of us work still omhn hem, others abandon them when the hard work starts, that's the difference

That is the underlying reason why I pushed RPI.. to eliminate that subjective view and classification of prog on musical terms. You don't know what is or is not symphonic any better than me or anyone here.

Well you were a proud member (At least un name when you were not "on license") fo several monts of the SYMPHONIC SUB-GENRE TEAM, you added and retired bands from the saun-gentre.

You proudly show the banner of Art Rock Specialist (Another name for member opf the Art Rock team) and RPI Team (Well, still RPI doesn't eist).

So you were not only part of this teams you now attack (A you attack the owners, Administrators and Collaborators), it's at least very hypocritical of you...you will answer you're no longer part of them, maybe because the hard work started.

Maybe I don't know more about Symphonic than many people here, but for that reason WE HAVE A TEAM, of members, most of the time the Collaborators and Administrators agree with what we do, (As you did but now you forget and omit), I wrote the Symphonivc Prog definition with the approbal of the Collaborators (After being posted for some time and there were no objections, a definition you also praised ).....So at leastt someyhing I know, and the most impoirtant, I doon't abandon my team when the work starts.

That is why these subs are a source of ridicule elsewhere... and even here as was the point of the OP. You have Kansas in symphonic for god's sake hahhaha.

We only added two bands from other genres, but this must be discussed with the team Leaders in the cases where there is one:

Kansas (3 votes yes - 1 vote no): Despite the hard Rock and Country influence in their music, we find that the structure, at least until Monolith and after an AOR period that ended with Power is mainly Symphonic, so this will be almost the exact case of bands like Genesis, but the most important albums from their career and the biggest number are part of or the Symphonic Sub-genre.

With the votes of Ivan_Melgar-M, Cesar Inca, Micky and Salmacis

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21805&KW=First - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21805&KW=First

So if you change your mind so often, don't blame me YOU VOTED FOR KANSAS TO BE MOVED TO SYMPHONIC AND NOW YOU DARE TO OPPOSE TO THAT AFTER HAVING SUPPORTED FOR A YEAR JUST TO HAVE AN ARGUMENT

Now, I explained the reasons why Kansas is here, AND YOU SAID NOTHING, but to refresh your memory I will quote them:

The case of Kansas was clear for us:

The AOR fame is wrong (At least until after Monolith), they were never an AOR band (During their long Prog era), the cause of this mistake is because they reached their commercial peak in the late 70's, were from United States and shared the charts with STYX which is AOR.
If somebody who listened only "Dust in the Wind" believes Kansas is AOR, I can understand it, but Kansas was born in 1971 and released their first album in 1974, that's 4 years before AOR (As we know it) existed.
Kansas blends at least three main elements, Symphonic structure, Hard Rock arrangements and some Country Music touches, but the main component of most of their albums is SYMPHONIC.
Kansas released the following Prog Albums:
1. Kansas: 100% Prog - Symphonic structure
2. Song for America : 100% Prog - Symphonic structure
3. Masque: 100% Prog - Symphonic structure
4. Leftoverture: 100% Prog - Symphonic structure
5. Point of Know Return: 90 % Prog (Only Dust in the Wind isn't Prog) - 100% Symphonic structure.
6. Monolith: 100% Prog (Lower quality but Prog) - Symphonic Structure
7. In the Spirit of Things: Mostly Prog - Symphonic structure
8. Freaks of Nature: Partially Prog - Symphonic structure
9. Somewhere to Elsewhere: 100% Prog - Symphoinic structure
Live albums:
1. Two for the Show - 100% Prog - Symphonic structure
2. Live at the Whiskey: 100% Prog - Symphonic structure
3. Live, Dust in the Wind: 100% Prog - Symphonic structure
4. King Biscuit: 100% Prog - Symphonic structure
5. Always Never the Same: 100% Prog - Symphonic structure with Symphony Orchestra
6. Device, Voice Drum: 90% Prog - Symphonic structure
Non Prog Albums:
1. Audio Visions: Pomp Rock - Still mainly Symphonic structure
2. Vinyl Confessions: Christian Pop - AOR structure
3. Drastic Measures: Christian Pop - AOR structure
4. Power: Rock - Eclectic structure, tried to return to the past but not ready yet
We can see that 75.33% of their discography is Prog and only 26.6% is non Prog, the percentages are obvious.

In Kansas (Pioneers of Prog) the Hard Rock and Country elements were only arrangements, they were doing the same Symphonic than in UK but with a USA flavour that made it richer

So as you see I argument what the team decided, you only shout I want Jon Lord (A barely Prog artist) in Symphomnic because "it's a no btrainer" but you don't have a single argument to support his addition....There's the difference.

Yet said an artist who set out to purposefully fuse classical and rock...wasn't symphonic. and you dare say this site is losing credibility...

Are you sure you know what Sympghonic is? Do you believe every artist who fuses Rock with Classical Music is Symphonic? Do you believe an artist who has:

Before I forget – hard rock, classical, blues, symphonic, jazz, theatrical, pop, big band
Beyond the notes – symphonic, classical/orchestral, jazz, theatrical, pop
First of the big bands – big band, blues, jazz, folk, rock
Gemini Suite – symphonic, jazz/fusion
Pictured within – pop, classical/orchestral, theatrical
Sarabande – symphonic, classical/orchestral, jazz/fusion, dance/Latin
Wndows – opera, classical, theatrical, fusion/funk
Hoochie coochie – blues, funk, rock, country

Only one partialñly Symphonic alnbum, maybe two, but focus on Neo Classical, Jazz, POP, Fusion, Blues, Funk Country is Symphonic????

You should check your priorities Micky because I believe you're weong.

the only one losing it is yourself I dare say. LOL

Part of credinility is

Staying with your team when the hard band by band woirk is done, not only to shout for a year and leave when the work starts.
To be consequebnt with your decisions, youi voted for Kansas and now you protest after a year of silence.

When and if mailto:M@X - M@X and/or the Administrators tell me that I will worry, but if you say so...honestly I don't care.

Iván

-------------

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 24 2007 at 11:50

wow..... and I thought I had a problem with being concise....

just tell me to stick it up my ass Ivan...it's much shorter.. and easier to read hahahha.

I'm assuming that is the gist of what you said... LOL

I need to get back to learning about stress drop and stress rise intonations. Wink

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: June 24 2007 at 11:54

el böthy wrote:

And here I thought it would be fun... but no... Cry

Perhaps you should have posted this in "Just For Fun" then?

It seems to belong there, well it did originally but now it seems it could be going elsewhere.........

micky wrote:

wow..... and I thought I had a problem with being concise....

just tell me to stick it up my ass Ivan...it's much shorter.. and easier to read hahahha.

-------------
http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:00

micky wrote:

wow..... and I thought I had a problem with being concise....

just tell me to stick it up my ass Ivan...it's much shorter.. and easier to read hahahha.

I'm assuming that is the gist of what you said... LOL

I need to get back to learning about stress drop and stress rise intonations. Wink

It's hard to be concise when you find so many contradictions ina person's argument..

All of what I said can be and is supported, even you voting for Kansas addition and blaming me after a year.

It's qute funny.

Iván

BTW: I don't need to tell yo to stuick it anywhere, I don't use that kind of language, I use arguments, which you obviously don't have.

-------------

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:03

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I need to get back to learning about stress drop and stress rise intonations. Wink

It's hard to be concise when you find so many contradictions ina person's argument..

All of what I said can be and is supported, even you voting for Kansas addition and blaming me after a year.

It's quute funny.

Iván

How the hell do you find all these old posts Ivan? You must have some great filing system!!

-------------
http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: andu
Date Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:05

He's a lawyer... Everything is future evidence, so beware what you post... Wink

-------------
"PA's own GI Joe!"

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:09

andu wrote:

He's a lawyer... Everything is future evidence, so beware what you post... Wink

No Andu it's only a good menory and using the search function, everything is here.

Micky talks about Jon Lord: I only search Jon Lord, the thread is there

About the Symphonic team additions and moves, I have them all in my head because I use to take things seriously, specially when working on something.

Iván

-------------

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:13

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

andu wrote:

He's a lawyer... Everything is future evidence, so beware what you post... Wink

No Andu it's only a good menory and using the search function, everything is here.

Micky talks about Jon Lord: I only search Jon Lord, the thread is there

About the Symphonic team additions and moves, I have them all in my head because I use to take things seriously, specially when working on something.

Iván

I remember other times. You seem to drag out old posts like a magician from his hat!

-------------
http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: andu
Date Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:18

Still I'm sure Ivan has bookmarked plenty of pages just in case... And when someone steps wrong, he's done! Just think of the Progger incidents, he didn't stand a chance. I'm guess there's a whole "Progger" bookmarks directory in Ivan's browser... just in case.

-------------
"PA's own GI Joe!"

Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:25

Why are you all abusing el böthy's thread? This is about genre descriptions of bands and albums, not about what happened during the symphonic prog cleanup.

-------------
https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls

Listened to:

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:27

MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Why are you all abusing el böthy's thread? This is about genre descriptions of bands and albums, not about what happened during the symphonic prog cleanup.

Abusing it? It went off the rails after the first post!

-------------
http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:31

oh goodie. this shall be fun hahhahah

I wasn't fair to you Ivan..since you wasted so much time on me.... let me return the favor hahha

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

That's why the owners created teams, some of us work still omhn hem, others abandon them when the hard work starts, that's the difference

and some people have no life Ivan..... I left the symhonic team when my marriage fell apart asshole. And I am temporarily away from the two teams ..while I make a new life for myself. Listen here.... buddy.... this site may be life and death for you and a measure of your self worth for failing in YOUR personal life. It isn't for me.. I come to have fun... and when it stopped being fun I took a break. Is that clear enough for you.

Well you were a proud member (At least un name when you were not "on license") fo several monts of the SYMPHONIC SUB-GENRE TEAM, you added and retired bands from the saun-gentre.

You proudly show the banner of Art Rock Specialist (Another name for member opf the Art Rock team) and RPI Team (Well, still RPI doesn't eist).

That is why these subs are a source of ridicule elsewhere... and even here as was the point of the OP. You have Kansas in symphonic for god's sake hahhaha.

YOU VOTED FOR THE INCLUSION OF KANSAS AS A SYMPHONIC TEAM MEMBER, YOU NEVER DOUBTED ABOUT THEM WHEN YOU WHERE A MEMBER OF THE TEAM, NOW YOU SPEAK, BECAUSE YOUR FAVORITE SPORTS IS TO CRITICIZE WHAT OTHERS DO INSTEAD OF WORKING,

Let me inform you.... since you think you have it all figured out..

I voted for Kansas since I was not a fan and hadn't heard all of their discography. In short I differed to you since I assumed you were objective.

I had wondered why you didn't show me the same consideration when I wanted to add Jon Lord. You obvioiusly didn't have any clue about his music. Yet you didn't show any regard for another collaborators opinion. I think you will regret that someday... trust me hahhaah

as far as anything else you wrote... piss off.... you aren't worth the time. This is obviously a personal vendetta for you against me. It's personal... and that bus stops right here.. right now.

Michael

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:33

MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Why are you all abusing el böthy's thread? This is about genre descriptions of bands and albums, not about what happened during the symphonic prog cleanup.

I get your point Mike, but if I'm mentioned I have to exoplain how the things really are.

Lets accept it, once a thread leaves the hands of the creator, it has it's own life and goes wherever we take it, it's natural, happens all the time.

If people avoided attacking others, there would be no need for lenghty replies (Not referroing to you Mike).

Iván

-------------

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:35

I'm a hypocrite for saying it, and feeling are running high, but this is not for the public forum.

I know, I know......I've done worse.

-------------
http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:37

"bicker, bicker, bicker, bicker" - Adrian Belew

-------------

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:59

Micky wrote:

and some people have no life Ivan..... I left the symhonic team when my marriage fell apart asshole. And I am temporarily away from the two teams ..while I make a new life for myself. Listen here.... buddy.... this site may be life and death for you and a measure of your self worth for failing in YOUR personal life. It isn't for me.. I come to have fun... and when it stopped being fun I took a break. Is that clear enough for you.

No Micky, you left Symphonic for other reasons and you know them, because if you were really worried for another external issues you would had worked on them.

But no, you immediately assumed the Art Rock Team because you wanted control of it and you got it, then instead on focusing on your problems you went in the crusade for RPI.

You left Symphonic to assume TWO TEAMS, so your priorities were others.

Please omit the insults and trying to make me feel guilty, I know you very well, if you had left for personal reasons you would have left Prog Archives, not taken the responsibility of TWO OTHER SUB-GENRES.

You've crossed the line..... see above.... and and the worst part is. You knew my marriage was falling apart. Shame on you....

I’m not responsible for your marriage, so don’t try to blame me, it’s pathetic, you left Symphonic to be the head of twop teams, be honest with yourself.

I've said enough... hope you are happy with yourself.

Yes, I’m happy with myself, everybody has problems in their lifes and lives with them, if I had a problem in mine, I would leave the team inmediatelñy and focus in the solution of this problems, not accepted two other sub-genres.

Let me inform you.... since you think you have it all figured out..

I voted for Kansas since I was not a fan and hadn't heard all of their discography. In short I differed to you since I assumed you were objective.

So you vote without knowing the band????

Sorry, but I first get informed about something before voting, you voted for them it was moved with your approval, so don’t throw your responsibilities or lack of them in others

I had wondered why you didn't show me the same consideration when I wanted to add Jon Lord.

Because I take my responsibilities seriously, I don’t vote for something before getting informed, I supported my vote and my opinion from the start.

My responsibility is for the people who choose me for a work, If I believe (As I believed from the start) that Jon Lord is not a Symphonic artist, I won’t accept him to make you or anybody a favor or a courtesy, my responsibility is with Prog Archives and he day I feel my this work collisions with my life, I will leave it, not to take another team, not to take two teams, that would be dishonest, I would leave it for good

You obvioiusly didn't have any clue about his music. Yet you didn't show any regard for another collaborators opinion. I think you will regret that someday... trust me hahhaah

Most of the collaborators voted against the inclusion of Jon Lord in Prog Symphonic, my team voted against in majority, Bob made a solid argument, Sean even thought (As many others) that he should be in Proig Related at the most READ YOUR THREAD

I never vote withoiut knowing a band or an artist, you have accepted in this pst you voted for Kansas without knowing the band, that's something I never did and never will.

as far as anything else you wrote... piss off.... you aren't worth the time. This is obviously a personal vendetta for you against me. It's personal... and that bus stops right here.. right now.

Vendetta??? Are you crazy? You started your attacks in this and every thread, BEFORE I EVEN JOINED THIS THREAD

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=4823&FID=3 -
Special Collaborator
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_images/5_star_rating.gif - -

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/new_reply_form.asp?M=Q&PID=2553219&PN=2&TR=33 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/new_reply_form.asp?PID=2553219&PN=2&TR=33 - - forum_posts.asp?TID=39291&PID=2553219#2553219 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_images/bullet.gif - Posted: Yesterday at 03:36

what is symphonic..... we have people here who think that Jon Lord's solo albums aren't symphonic http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif - -

This was a direct attack and I hadn’t even posted in this thread before, so check what you write and don’t blame others for what you start.

I don't have any reason for a vendetta, as a fact I have never searched for revenge, that's too cheap for me, seems you like vendetta because each time you rejoin the forum, you start again messing with Symphoonic.

The day you left Symphonic and made your team I accepted your decision, we are advancing faster than ever so why I should have a vendetta?????

Iván

-------------

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: June 24 2007 at 13:20

what is symphonic..... we have people here who think that Jon Lord's solo albums aren't symphonic

Not a direct attack on you Ivan IMO. Just a statement.. I see no reference to you at all. You infer an attack.

Sorry to interrupt.

-------------
http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 24 2007 at 13:40

Snow Dog wrote:

what is symphonic..... we have people here who think that Jon Lord's solo albums aren't symphonic

Not a direct attack on you Ivan IMO. Just a statement.. I see no reference to you at all. You infer an attack.

Sorry to interrupt.

SD, please read the Jon Lord's thread, we were pushed to accept Jon Lord at any cost, we were accused, each time there is a chance there are reference to this rejection.

And it's not in this thread alone, read all the other related threads my friend and you will see that despite I was trying to ignore Micky, his reference are repetitive.

I only made clear why MY TEAM (At least the majority) didn't accepted Jon Lord, each team knows how to do their work, I believe we had advanced a lot, more than some teams, I never told Micky how to do his job in Art Rock or RPI, by the contrary, you may ask Chus, Ricochet or Atavachron, we were there to help them whenever they had a problem.

All we ask is that we are left to do our work, we inform the Collaborators every week (You can check our threads in the Genre section), that's all we ask,m to be allowed to work.

I could quote many things or talk about ,my personal life but it's not the forum problem.

Iván

-------------

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: June 24 2007 at 13:46

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

what is symphonic..... we have people here who think that Jon Lord's solo albums aren't symphonic

Not a direct attack on you Ivan IMO. Just a statement.. I see no reference to you at all. You infer an attack.

Sorry to interrupt.

SD, please read the Jon Lord's thread, we were pushed to accept Jon Lord at any cost, we were accused, each time there is a chance there are reference to this rejection.

And it's not in this thread alone, read all the other related threads my friend and you will see that despite I was trying to ignore Micky, his reference are repetitive.

All we ask is that we are left to do our work, we inform the Collaborators every week (You can check our threads in the Genre section), that's all we ask,m to be allowed to work.

I could quote many things or talk about ,my personal life but it's not the forum problem.

Iván

Please Ivan. In Mickys post IN THIS THREAD ALONE, he makes no attack on you by name. Now its obvious you have history and you may be right that it is a veiled attack, but I stand by my observation.

To the casual reader...there is no attack.

-------------
http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 24 2007 at 14:00

Snow Dog wrote:

Please Ivan. In Mickys post IN THIS THREAD ALONE, he makes no attack on you by name. Now its obvious you have history and you may be right that it is a veiled attack, but I stand by my observation.

To the casual reader...there is no attack.

Not for the casual visitor Snow Dog, but this comes fropm some time ago.

I never messed with the work of other teams, that's what I ask from Micky or everybody once a decision is taken.

You know each time we make a change, a move ot any advance, we notify the Collaborators before, they have a chance to obkect tgis, the Jon Lord issue was treated in many threads trying to force us to accept him, we won't, we explained our reasons.

This issue should be left behind, the Administrators have approved the inclusion in Prog Related, so lets leave that issue behind instead of starting it again each time he visits the forum.

Read my first reply it was clear asking to respect our decisions in the Symphonic team, that's all I ask.

and I was replied by him again:

You have Kansas in symphonic for god's sake hahhaha. Yet said an artist who set out to purposefully fuse classical and rock...wasn't symphonic. and you dare say this site is losing credibility... the only one losing it is yourself I dare say. LOL

For God's sake, Kansas is here BECAUSE OF HIS VOTE!!!!!!!!

And he dares to accuse me af if he had nothing to do and what's his excuse: "I didn't knew Kansas" If I don't know a band I do the honest thisng as Salmacis I DON'T VOTE, but if I approve a change, I don't blame anybody for it, I accept I was part of it and shut my mouth.

BTW: I still believe Kansas is mainly a Symphonic band.

Please SD, check if I ever mentioned him in any thread until myself, my team or our work was mentioned and/or questioned.

Thanks

Iván

-------------

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: June 24 2007 at 14:10

Ok Ivan.....we both made our points. Time to let this thread return to its intended use maybe.

-------------
http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 24 2007 at 14:41

Snow Dog wrote:

Ok Ivan.....we both made our points. Time to let this thread return to its intended use maybe.

very wise indeed.. which bring me back to my original post before Ivan flipped out on us..and ...thank you Ivan. Showed us exactly how you feel....I had told the admins it was personal towards me.... and you proved in flowing blue font. LOL

back on topic...

my post was not an attack... but a question.... unfortunately some here are blinded by ...whatever blinds them to see that. You completely misunderstood the meanings of Clarkes post's Ivan... and you did here.as well.

el böthy wrote:

the genre within the genre within... etc

You know how sometimes the whole genre´s thing just makes us forget about the music? Tagging, tagging and more tagging, just makes things sad... well... those arguments are all very nice... lets forget them!

SO, here the idea of this topic is to make a total distription of a band, tagging it, but not "superficially", but going really all the way, in making the distingtion from it with other bands... as I dont know if I have expressed myself correctly, Ill show with an example!

Emerson, Lake & Palmer

"Modern classical symphonic progressive rock trio"

Opeth

"Melodic death progressive metal"

... get the idea??? Ok, you´re next!

I replied....

micky wrote:

what is symphonic..... we have people here who think that Jon Lord's solo albums aren't symphonic LOL

a vaiid question.. about what is symphonic... and just who determines it.

Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 24 2007 at 15:05

^ maybe it would be best if el böthy started a new thread with micky and Ivan blocked out. Wink

-------------
https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls

Listened to:

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 24 2007 at 16:16

MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ maybe it would be best if el böthy started a new thread with micky and Ivan blocked out. Wink

I ask excuses to El Bothy for replying, but don't worry it's closreed for me.

Lets go back.

Iván

-------------