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Harold Demure View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Interpreting songs
    Posted: March 28 2007 at 18:35
I have recently wondered a lot about whether a prog song has to have it's message, "meaning" . How do you think, do prog artists always want to tell us some story or maybe sometimes they just compose some fine riffs, melodies, put them together and make a good song? I'm talking not about the lyrics only, but also about instrumental pieces.
For example, Tubular Bells. Why these strange roars (I wouldn't call it singing) appear in the second part? What is the point in such original vocals, maybe the only reason was to make something original and that's all? But as far as I am concerned, it reminded me of a werewolf (you can laugh at me if you want).
Another example - Hamburger Concerto. Do you see any particular story on this album? And what about Tales From Toporaphic Oceans?
There are so many other examples, but generally, do you find a "message" or "meaning" of a song important, or fine melody is enough for you? When I listen to some album, I usually feel that there is a story told but often I recognize only few excerpts from it, even if it's instrumental music.
I know that everyone can interpret music in his own way, but if instrumental album is divided into short songs and each has it's own title, the musicians probably wanted to guide us to some story that they tell on the album. A good example of such album is The Snow Goose. Do you imagine some particular tales while listening to instrumental music?
As for lyrics, don't you think that sometimes they are really mysterious? And for an addle-head in interpreting poetry like me it's difficult to guess what the musicians want to express. BTW, are there any topics concerning interpreting lyrics? Sorry, but I can't see the point of a song "I talk to the wind" (for example), of course the rest on this album is obvious but this one is somehow difficult for me... Maybe it would be a good idea to create a topic where we could show our own interpretations of certain songs? If ou're interested in it, of course.

PS. Sorry for my English   

Edited by Harold Demure - March 28 2007 at 18:36
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proghairfunk View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2007 at 19:59
Often times I get really into meanings of albums.  I am a sucker for concept albums and usually end up beating my head against a wall trying to find a concept when there is none.  Topographic oceans to me definately has an extremely elaborate concept, but I'm still working on what it is.  For anyone else who replys, add the song supper's ready to the list.  I've always heard it's a bunch of songs strung together, but Peter Gabriel seems like to careful of a lyricist to just string songs together without meaning.  Great topic though, look forward to hearing replys a little more informed than this rambling message.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2007 at 20:18
ehh sometimes you cant take it too seriously...that seems to be the problem with a lot of prog
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2007 at 22:00
In response to the question about Tubular Bells, the grunting on the "Caveman" section was a joke.  Virgin asked Oldfield to add prominent vocals to at least one section of the album, so it could be released as a single.  The rest, as they say, is history.  

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2007 at 05:20
unless a song has an actual story, I'm against interpretation (unless of, course, it's your own).








Edited by Atavachron - March 29 2007 at 05:21
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2007 at 06:33
Originally posted by rileydog22 rileydog22 wrote:

In response to the question about Tubular Bells, the grunting on the "Caveman" section was a joke.  Virgin asked Oldfield to add prominent vocals to at least one section of the album, so it could be released as a single.  The rest, as they say, is history.  




Thanks for your answers, I had even thought that no one would reply to his topic.
It's very possible that Atavachron and soundspectrum are right. Maybe often artist compose certain strange, complex songs to let us interpret them in our own way, especially the instrumental ones, but they didn't mean anyhing particular when composing it.
Please, give your interpretation to songs with lyrics if you've come up to one .
Has anybody an idea about "I talk to the wind", already mentioned before? Or "Lucky Man" by ELP - what is the moral of this song?
And one more thing, I don't want you to think that I'm concerned only on lyrics and message of songs. Of course, music is the most important thing and that's what makes prog so interesing, while words add yet more charm to the music (look at my signature)

Edited by Harold Demure - March 29 2007 at 06:35
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2007 at 06:43
'I Talk To the Wind' was a Giles, Giles & Fripp tune that was used by the band they morphed into, King Crimson, on ItCotCK. But it is essentially a very hippy-dippy, Beatles-esque, Britpop little number and was when KC re-recorded it. What does it mean? It means he talks to the wind.. it's that simple. If you want to hear the real 'I Talk to the Wind', get GG&F's 'Brondesbury Tapes' .. it's a real hoot and a pretty significant link in the early prog chain.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2007 at 11:30
Sometimes when I listen to progressive rock song I insert my own meanings particularily if it`s instrumental. Prog has a lot of room for the imagination. A good example would be Roundabout which was written by Howe and Anderson about the scenery on their way from Scotland to London. I don`t know how many interpretations I`ve read or heard of that  one. (  in the UK a traffic circle is known as a roundabout )
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2007 at 11:35
Sometimes songs don't have a meaning. And at times it can be really hard to tell whether the lyrics attempt to be intelligent metaphors or are supposed to be just nonsense. That's why I tend to avoid analysing every song with strange lyrics, I don't like the thought of working really hard to extract a meaning from a song which in reality hasn't got one.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2007 at 14:32
Oh man Tales has for me one very good concept, and by far Andersons best lyrics. It speak basically that the grace of God is not in the words of books, rules and such, but in nature, in mankind and in everything beautiful in this word. And even if you dont like the God connection, its not explisit, so you can make out of it whatever you want, but for me its that... I think its genius
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2007 at 17:12
I don't think songs have to have meanings. Sometimes the lyrics are just written to sound good or for imagery or something. And I don't really tend to try to interpret lyrics most of the time.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2007 at 19:45
I personally have never been terribly interested in interpreting lyrics.  If I wanted to interpret poetry, I'd crack open a book, not listen to music.  Besides, often lyrics are just strung together to sound good (e.g. Yes), too veiled in symbolism to be interpretable (eg. Beefheart), or too tied up in personal experiences/inside jokes to be relevant to the listener. 

I often find it funny how overanylized some people get; I even saw someone try to interpret Trout Mask Replica once, which is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2007 at 22:03
I never try to find a meaning for instrumental songs because I'm inclined to think musicians don't start these things with a meaning in mind and often don't intend for there to be a real story. The emotion is the only thing that's important.
Just as I don't try to make any sense of Jon Anderson's lyrics because I know they're complete nonsense (someone here once said that they make sense to highly intelligent people--I had to call him out for being a superior b*****d and for finding something that isn't there).
 
I agree, Talk to the Wind is pretty pointless. But then again I never liked ITCOTCK very much at all.


Edited by Ghandi 2 - March 29 2007 at 22:04
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2007 at 07:31
Yes, I agree that some lyrics don't seem to have an point, bu eg. Rush wrote IMO very good lyrics, and when I began to pay atention to them I appreciated this band even more. Lyrics are also very, very important (and brilliant, although sometimes depressing) in VDGG. But I realised now that I shouldn't take some lyrics or songs too seriously, beacuse they simply have no meaning, I had thought before that maybe I'm so unintelligent that I can't understand them .
BTW, as for 'I talk to the wind' I somehow love the lyrics, because they fit so well with the music, they don't have to contain any moral.

Edited by Harold Demure - March 30 2007 at 07:32
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2007 at 08:12
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

If you want to hear the real 'I Talk to the Wind', get GG&F's 'Brondesbury Tapes' .. it's a real hoot and a pretty significant link in the early prog chain.
Okay, good history lesson.  But Ian McDonald's flute work on the KC 'cover' for that song is indispensible, IMO...
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2007 at 09:36
Music is the most important part of my listening experience. If the 'tone'  of the lyrics sounds good, and I have been able to give my own interpretation to them, I consider that a bonus. If the music is good and the lyrics are not really interesting, or if I don't 'get'  them (like most Yes Lyrics),  I can still enjoy the music (like most Yes music). I can also enjoy music with lyrics in a language I don't understand (Le Orme).

If I really understand the lyrics but I consider them to be bad, stupid or whatever, this really annoys me, especially if the music is good. It really spoils the song in that case.

If the lyrics are good but the music does not appeal to me, I will probably also not listen to it again. 

Conclusion:
Music Good +  Lyrics Good = OK
Music Good + Lyrics not understandable  = OK
Music Good + Lyrics stupid = Not OK
Music not good + Lyrics Not good = Not OK


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2007 at 11:25
Autobahn, is about ride a car, or something right? LOL

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2007 at 11:31
Why, you've never hear about ye olde defintion of prog? "A rock song is a 3-minute song about love. A prog rock song is a 15-minute song about nothing!"Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2007 at 11:56

Something makes me a bit dissappointed that some of you think that Yes songs don't have any meaning... but I feel I am forced to concede! by the way, Hi everyone, I'm Graeme! Big Genesis fan mostly (of the "archduke" variety, that's what they call me over on the G forum), but call me a young (21) prog fan who is just starting to explore the genre and is lookin for encouragement/tips on what he may enjoy. Albums I am really into at the mo

Misplaced Chilldhood and Script... only Marillion albums I own
Close to the Edge... fascinating, beautiful, ethereal and mindblowing (also own Fragile, which I found a little more accessible, but not as good IMO, and one of the Yes collections)
Caress of Steel... own 3 Rush albums 2112 and Grace Under Pressure
Huge Genesis fan as I mentioned so I am likely to respond to threads regarding their stuff a little more often.
 
I know forums like this are a grwat place to get encouragement and talk about what is essentially a hobby. Looking forward to getting to know a few of you.
 
Cheers
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2007 at 17:07
Originally posted by UncleMeat UncleMeat wrote:

Music is the most important part of my listening experience. If the 'tone'  of the lyrics sounds good, and I have been able to give my own interpretation to them, I consider that a bonus. If the music is good and the lyrics are not really interesting, or if I don't 'get'  them (like most Yes Lyrics),  I can still enjoy the music (like most Yes music). I can also enjoy music with lyrics in a language I don't understand (Le Orme). If I really understand the lyrics but I consider them to be bad, stupid or whatever, this really annoys me, especially if the music is good. It really spoils the song in that case.If the lyrics are good but the music does not appeal to me, I will probably also not listen to it again.  Conclusion:
Music Good +  Lyrics Good = OK
Music Good + Lyrics not understandable  = OK Music Good + Lyrics stupid = Not OK
Music not good + Lyrics Not good = Not OK



for stupid, song-spoiling lyrics theres nothing like porcupine tree. I love their music but the lyrics just get in the way. I can't listen to lightbulb sun anymore just because the lyrics make me cringe.
I'd rather they just be like TMV and be utterly ridiculous. For the most part its more about the music to me though. Trying to find meaning to me takes away from the enjoyment of the song, especially when the meaning is something political i'll probably disagree with.
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