Interpreting songs
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Topic: Interpreting songs
Posted By: Harold Demure
Subject: Interpreting songs
Date Posted: March 28 2007 at 18:35
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I have recently wondered a lot about whether a prog song has to have it's message, "meaning" . How do you think, do prog artists always want to tell us some story or maybe sometimes they just compose some fine riffs, melodies, put them together and make a good song? I'm talking not about the lyrics only, but also about instrumental pieces.
For example, Tubular Bells. Why these strange roars (I wouldn't call it singing) appear in the second part? What is the point in such original vocals, maybe the only reason was to make something original and that's all? But as far as I am concerned, it reminded me of a werewolf (you can laugh at me if you want  ).
Another example - Hamburger Concerto. Do you see any particular story on this album? And what about Tales From Toporaphic Oceans? There are so many other examples, but generally, do you find a "message" or "meaning" of a song important, or fine melody is enough for you? When I listen to some album, I usually feel that there is a story told but often I recognize only few excerpts from it, even if it's instrumental music. I know that everyone can interpret music in his own way, but if instrumental album is divided into short songs and each has it's own title, the musicians probably wanted to guide us to some story that they tell on the album. A good example of such album is The Snow Goose. Do you imagine some particular tales while listening to instrumental music? As for lyrics, don't you think that sometimes they are really mysterious? And for an addle-head in interpreting poetry like me it's difficult to guess what the musicians want to express. BTW, are there any topics concerning interpreting lyrics? Sorry, but I can't see the point of a song "I talk to the wind" (for example), of course the rest on this album is obvious but this one is somehow difficult for me... Maybe it would be a good idea to create a topic where we could show our own interpretations of certain songs? If ou're interested in it, of course.
PS. Sorry for my English  ------------- You can choose a ready guide In some celestial voice If you choose not to decide You still have made a choice |
Replies:
Posted By: proghairfunk
Date Posted: March 28 2007 at 19:59
| Often times I get really into meanings of albums. I am a sucker for concept albums and usually end up beating my head against a wall trying to find a concept when there is none. Topographic oceans to me definately has an extremely elaborate concept, but I'm still working on what it is. For anyone else who replys, add the song supper's ready to the list. I've always heard it's a bunch of songs strung together, but Peter Gabriel seems like to careful of a lyricist to just string songs together without meaning. Great topic though, look forward to hearing replys a little more informed than this rambling message. |
Posted By: soundspectrum
Date Posted: March 28 2007 at 20:18
| ehh sometimes you cant take it too seriously...that seems to be the problem with a lot of prog |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: March 28 2007 at 22:00
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In response to the question about Tubular Bells, the grunting on the "Caveman" section was a joke. Virgin asked Oldfield to add prominent vocals to at least one section of the album, so it could be released as a single. The rest, as they say, is history.
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: March 29 2007 at 05:20
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unless a song has an actual story, I'm against interpretation (unless of, course, it's your own).
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Posted By: Harold Demure
Date Posted: March 29 2007 at 06:33
Thanks for your answers, I had even thought that no one would reply to his topic. It's very possible that Atavachron and soundspectrum are right. Maybe often artist compose certain strange, complex songs to let us interpret them in our own way, especially the instrumental ones, but they didn't mean anyhing particular when composing it. Please, give your interpretation to songs with lyrics if you've come up to one . Has anybody an idea about "I talk to the wind", already mentioned before? Or "Lucky Man" by ELP - what is the moral of this song? And one more thing, I don't want you to think that I'm concerned only on lyrics and message of songs. Of course, music is the most important thing and that's what makes prog so interesing, while words add yet more charm to the music (look at my signature)  ------------- You can choose a ready guide In some celestial voice If you choose not to decide You still have made a choice |
rileydog22 wrote:Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: March 29 2007 at 06:43
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'I Talk To the Wind' was a Giles, Giles & Fripp tune that was used by the band they morphed into, King Crimson, on ItCotCK. But it is essentially a very hippy-dippy, Beatles-esque, Britpop little number and was when KC re-recorded it. What does it mean? It means he talks to the wind.. it's that simple. If you want to hear the real 'I Talk to the Wind', get GG&F's 'Brondesbury Tapes' .. it's a real hoot and a pretty significant link in the early prog chain.
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Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: March 29 2007 at 11:30
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Sometimes when I listen to progressive rock song I insert my own meanings particularily if it`s instrumental. Prog has a lot of room for the imagination. A good example would be Roundabout which was written by Howe and Anderson about the scenery on their way from Scotland to London. I don`t know how many interpretations I`ve read or heard of that one. ( in the UK a traffic circle is known as a roundabout )
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Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: March 29 2007 at 11:35
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Sometimes songs don't have a meaning. And at times it can be really
hard to tell whether the lyrics attempt to be intelligent metaphors or
are supposed to be just nonsense. That's why I tend to avoid analysing
every song with strange lyrics, I don't like the thought of working
really hard to extract a meaning from a song which in reality hasn't
got one. |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: March 29 2007 at 14:32
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Oh man Tales has for me one very good concept, and by far Andersons best lyrics. It speak basically that the grace of God is not in the words of books, rules and such, but in nature, in mankind and in everything beautiful in this word. And even if you dont like the God connection, its not explisit, so you can make out of it whatever you want, but for me its that... I think its genius
------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: A Guy
Date Posted: March 29 2007 at 17:12
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I don't think songs have to have meanings. Sometimes the lyrics are just written to sound good or for imagery or something. And I don't really tend to try to interpret lyrics most of the time. ------------- http://www.ericmushroomwilson.co.uk - My website Signatures are for people who can think of anything to put in their signatures. |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: March 29 2007 at 19:45
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I personally have never been terribly interested in interpreting lyrics. If I wanted to interpret poetry, I'd crack open a book, not listen to music. Besides, often lyrics are just strung together to sound good (e.g. Yes), too veiled in symbolism to be interpretable (eg. Beefheart), or too tied up in personal experiences/inside jokes to be relevant to the listener. I often find it funny how overanylized some people get; I even saw someone try to interpret Trout Mask Replica once, which is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. ------------- |
Posted By: Ghandi 2
Date Posted: March 29 2007 at 22:03
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I never try to find a meaning for instrumental songs because I'm inclined to think musicians don't start these things with a meaning in mind and often don't intend for there to be a real story. The emotion is the only thing that's important.
Just as I don't try to make any sense of Jon Anderson's lyrics because I know they're complete nonsense (someone here once said that they make sense to highly intelligent people--I had to call him out for being a superior b*****d and for finding something that isn't there).
I agree, Talk to the Wind is pretty pointless. But then again I never liked ITCOTCK very much at all.
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Posted By: Harold Demure
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 07:31
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Yes, I agree that some lyrics don't seem to have an point, bu eg. Rush wrote IMO very good lyrics, and when I began to pay atention to them I appreciated this band even more. Lyrics are also very, very important (and brilliant, although sometimes depressing) in VDGG. But I realised now that I shouldn't take some lyrics or songs too seriously, beacuse they simply have no meaning, I had thought before that maybe I'm so unintelligent that I can't understand them .
BTW, as for 'I talk to the wind' I somehow love the lyrics, because they fit so well with the music, they don't have to contain any moral. ------------- You can choose a ready guide In some celestial voice If you choose not to decide You still have made a choice |
Posted By: prog4evr
Date Posted: March 31 2007 at 08:12
Okay, good history lesson. But Ian McDonald's flute work on the KC 'cover' for that song is indispensible, IMO...
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Posted By: UncleMeat
Date Posted: March 31 2007 at 09:36
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Music is the most important part of my listening experience. If the 'tone' of the lyrics sounds good, and I have been able to give my own interpretation to them, I consider that a bonus. If the music is good and the lyrics are not really interesting, or if I don't 'get' them (like most Yes Lyrics), I can still enjoy the music (like most Yes music). I can also enjoy music with lyrics in a language I don't understand (Le Orme). If I really understand the lyrics but I consider them to be bad, stupid or whatever, this really annoys me, especially if the music is good. It really spoils the song in that case. If the lyrics are good but the music does not appeal to me, I will probably also not listen to it again. Conclusion: Music Good + Lyrics Good = OK Music Good + Lyrics not understandable = OK Music Good + Lyrics stupid = Not OK Music not good + Lyrics Not good = Not OK ------------- Music Is The Best |
Posted By: Lestat89
Date Posted: April 02 2007 at 11:25
Autobahn, is about ride a car, or something right?  ------------- When I Was An Alien The Truth Wasnt Out There... |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: April 02 2007 at 11:31
Why, you've never hear about ye olde defintion of prog? "A rock song is a 3-minute song about love. A prog rock song is a 15-minute song about nothing!"
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Posted By: GraemeD
Date Posted: April 02 2007 at 11:56
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Something makes me a bit dissappointed that some of you think that Yes songs don't have any meaning... but I feel I am forced to concede! by the way, Hi everyone, I'm Graeme! Big Genesis fan mostly (of the "archduke" variety, that's what they call me over on the G forum), but call me a young (21) prog fan who is just starting to explore the genre and is lookin for encouragement/tips on what he may enjoy. Albums I am really into at the mo Misplaced Chilldhood and Script... only Marillion albums I own
Close to the Edge... fascinating, beautiful, ethereal and mindblowing (also own Fragile, which I found a little more accessible, but not as good IMO, and one of the Yes collections)
Caress of Steel... own 3 Rush albums 2112 and Grace Under Pressure
Huge Genesis fan as I mentioned so I am likely to respond to threads regarding their stuff a little more often.
I know forums like this are a grwat place to get encouragement and talk about what is essentially a hobby. Looking forward to getting to know a few of you.
Cheers
Graeme ------------- Shot by Darwin's Magic Bullet |
Posted By: tmvp
Date Posted: April 02 2007 at 17:07
for stupid, song-spoiling lyrics theres nothing like porcupine tree. I love their music but the lyrics just get in the way. I can't listen to lightbulb sun anymore just because the lyrics make me cringe. I'd rather they just be like TMV and be utterly ridiculous. For the most part its more about the music to me though. Trying to find meaning to me takes away from the enjoyment of the song, especially when the meaning is something political i'll probably disagree with. |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: April 02 2007 at 17:20
 My analysis:I Talk to the Wind is the old hippy ideal: a return to nature. The "straight man" is an amalgam of society and its expectations. (To be a "straight" in those days did not refer to sexual orientation, but to someone who was not "turned on" to grass and psychedelics, etc. You can hear the word used in the same way in Black Sabbath's old ode to marijuana, Sweet Leaf: "Straight people don't know, what you're about...." The "late man" is the hippy-type, the mystic, who finds more "wisdom" in nature, than in the shallow, temporal ways of man. He has rejected modern, materialistic society and the "rat race." ("You don't possess me, don't impress me," etc.) The wind is timeless and immortal in its secret, all-knowing wisdom. The words (and works) of man mean nothing.
Very much a late 60s hippy ideal. (Though they weren't the first to long for simpler, natural, "animalistic" ways, by any means.)
Lucky Man is very transparent. Its tale of the early death in battle of a man who "had it all" shows that money does not bring happiness ("no money could save him"), and that death is the great "leveller" that awaits for all men, making no distinctions from king to pauper. Very moralistic, and an age-old theme. Death is there to keep us humble. ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: April 05 2007 at 11:15
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I think I read in some music magazine back in the seventies that Lake wrote Lucky Man when he was a kid and it was only used as filler on the first ELP album. Anyone know if there`s any truth to this? Also he returns to this money theme on at least a few other songs he`s penned over the years. Paper Blood off the Black Moon album comes to mind.
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Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: April 05 2007 at 23:21
It said that in the liner notes for the debut, so I'd have to say it's true. ------------- |
Posted By: Mathemagician
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 00:59
| ya. after years of listening, i finally "got" dark side of the moon. meh. not that good of a concept. animals was much better. and on the subject of pink floyd. i hate when people say that wish you were here is a concept album. shine on and the title track could have been a concept ep. but have a cigar and welcome to the machine dont have nething to do with syd barret. waters wanted to put dogs and pigs on it, but gilmour wouldn't let him for some odd reason, so they made animals with them. they should have put machine and cigar on animals and made some more syd-centric songs for a tribute album. r.i.p. syd barret. shine on you crazy diamond. |
Posted By: Ghandi 2
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 01:10
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By concept, do you mean coherent story? I wasn't aware that DSOTM really had one, although now that I think about it I can piece one together. That's a very good analysis, Peter. I still think it's a boring song, though. :P
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 01:10
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I don't interpret the theme of Wish to be as much about Syd Barrett as it was the band taking stock and getting a good look at the industry they chose (or that chose them). It is an album of fond memories of simpler times, growing up, and facing the reality of success. Remember, WYWH was the album after the chart-busting monster Dark Side. In this way, most if not all the songs have a connection.
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Posted By: Mathemagician
Date Posted: April 06 2007 at 01:44
A concept album is an album in which all songs have a central theme. Story or not. The concept of DSOTM is things that drive you crazy. But thats a topic for a different thread.
Just think if Welcome to the Machine and Have a Cigar were on Animals. They would go perfectly with the cold, industrial theme. They could be like a pig talking to a dog. And like I said, Waters wanted Pigs and Dogs on WYWH. |
Posted By: Zweck
Date Posted: April 13 2007 at 13:28
Waters was, and is, dim, how his lyrics came to be highly regarded in the century that gave us T. S. Eliot is beyond me. Most likely it has to do with their inherent ability to make any t**t feel "deep", gobsh*te. |