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Asyte2c00 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 15 2006
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Points: 2099
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 Topic: Shoegazer (Sub-Catergory)
Posted: August 28 2006 at 20:48 |
I am advocating the addition of a Shoegazer sub-category on Prog Archives. This genre of music is extrodinarily progressive and implements an array of musical subterfuges and influences that can be found in such legendary prog groups/artists like Tangerine Deam, Eno, Kraftwerk,Jean-Michel-Jarre, Sigur Ros, Explosions in the Sky, Ulver, A Silver Mount Zion, CAN, and countless other artists within the post-rock, krautrock, and progressive elctronica sub-genre.
Upon viewing Prog Archives for the first time, I was surprised to see Post-rock sub-genre and contiually disappointed at lack of initiative to include shoegazer sub-genre (its more captivating of the two).
This additon will considerably elevate interest in Prog Archives. For instance, I believe the most popular shoegazer band is My Bloody Valentine. If an individual enjoys MBV's music, he/she will explore a myriad of websites that provdide acccurate information regarding a band whom has a similar style of music. More importantly, the long-term effect is that an interest in one band leads to another and, subsequently, the individual spills over into other sub-genres (Progressive Electronica, Post-Rock, ect..) and become full-fledged prog fan.
This addition can only help Prog Archives. I would say many of venerated members ojn Prog Archives are familiar with all the sub-genres included on this site. The people who are proponents for the inclusion of such rock outfits as the Grateful Dead, Iron Maiden, and Blue Oyster Cult seem to pursue similar goal; they want tap in to a new pool of fans, and hopfully, interest them to the virtues of progressive music.
Collaborators, I implore you to to make a sincere iniative to pusure this proposal. If this inclusion, fails, that would be alright, for I would be comforted by the fact there was an effort made to add this genre to Prog Archives.
Greatly Appreciated
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Asyte2c00
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Joined: January 15 2006
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Posted: August 30 2006 at 22:53 |
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darksinger
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Joined: May 29 2006
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Posted: August 30 2006 at 22:57 |
isn't shoe gazer music known more widely as "goth"?
i mean, i got a cd-r from someone with this "to blossom blue is to blossom without you" song on it and, after hearing monster magnet and emperor, who both boldly scream where no band has screamed before, this was utter drivel...
Edited by darksinger - August 30 2006 at 23:00
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Asyte2c00
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Joined: January 15 2006
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Posted: August 30 2006 at 23:00 |
 darksinger wrote:
isn't shoe gazer music known more widely as "goth"? |
it has some similarities to goth msuic, however, I would asociate goth with bands like Evanescence, Lacuna Coil, in the woods, Type of Negative, Agalloch, early-Dead Can Dance, Joy Division, The Gathering, Stream of Passion ect....
Shoegazing is more similar to post rock than anything, there would be Tortoise, Sigur Ros, Mogwai withut shoegazer titans like MBV, Slowdive, and Catherine Wheel
its wall of sound, droning guitar ambient keyboards, ethereal atmospheres, often hackneyed lyrics aboyut lost love
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darksinger
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Posted: August 30 2006 at 23:01 |
Asyte2c00 wrote:
darksinger wrote:
isn't shoe gazer music known more widely as "goth"? |
it has some similarities to goth msuic, however, I would asociate goth with bands like Evanescence, Lacuna Coil, in the woods, Type of Negative, Agalloch, early-Dead Can Dance, Joy Division, The Gathering, Stream of Passion ect....
Shoegazing is more similar to post rock than anything, there would be Tortoise, Sigur Ros, Mogwai withut shoegazer titans like MBV, Slowdive, and Catherine Wheel
its wall of sound, droning guitar ambient keyboards, ethereal atmospheres, often hackneyed lyrics aboyut lost love
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just mention them wearing black velvet garb and heavy eyeliner and you've got goth
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Zac M
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Posted: August 30 2006 at 23:12 |
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Cocteau Twins, MBV, etc... prog? I don't think so.
Dead Can Dance are a possibility, they aren't really shoegaze to me.
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"Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression."
-Merleau-Ponty
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Bastille Dude
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Joined: November 30 2005
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Points: 906
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Posted: August 31 2006 at 01:05 |
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I'm not sure if they belong here, but I love the Catherine Wheel. "Adam & Eve" is borderline prog IMO. Also on "Like Cats & Dogs" they do a cover of "Wish You Were Here" and "The Spirit Of Radio". Tim Friese-Green's keyboard work is all over "Adam & Eve".
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DEATH TO FALSE PROG!
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Asyte2c00
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Joined: January 15 2006
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 19:34 |
Zac M wrote:
Cocteau Twins, MBV, etc... prog? I don't think so.
Dead Can Dance are a possibility, they aren't really shoegaze to me.
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DCD is so progressive they are regressive; they use ancient instruments in all their albums. Basically, verything after Spleen and Ideal.
Where would DCD be placed if added to PA?
BTW, if Shoegazer Sub-Category is too overwhelming some shoegezer bands should be added to Post Rock Prog Related catergoreis like MBV and Slowdive.
Edited by Asyte2c00 - October 02 2006 at 19:35
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Hatters
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Joined: May 06 2006
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Points: 466
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Posted: October 07 2006 at 17:36 |
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I think for the moment it is ok to put any shoegazer bands in the Experimental/Post-Rock section because they are so similar.
If shoegazer took off though then it would maybe be preferable to make two seperate sub-catergory.
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Trickster F.
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2006
Location: Belize
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Points: 5308
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Posted: October 07 2006 at 17:42 |
Asyte2c00 wrote:
darksinger wrote:
isn't shoe gazer music known more widely as "goth"? |
it has some similarities to goth msuic, however, I would asociate goth with bands like Evanescence, Lacuna Coil, in the woods, Type of Negative, Agalloch, early-Dead Can Dance, Joy Division, The Gathering, Stream of Passion ect....
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Sorry, but I cringed looking at how you mixed up actual goth rock music, with non-goth, mallcore AND some of the greatest Prog-Metal my ears have ever heard.
Back to the topic, I have only heard My Bloody Valentine, yet from what I have heard I can gather that this is not a style of music completely opposite to progrock's values. Whether it would make sense to include on the site is another question, as we would need more people who specialise in this genre, and as far as I am concerned, Indie fans rather than fans of Prog listen to Shoegaze, so this could be troublesome.
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sig
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Bastille Dude
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Posted: October 07 2006 at 18:18 |
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The shoegazer scene of the 90's is completely removed from goth that it is not even comparable. Two different styles of music that were as close as Metal was to Disco.
The above mentioned bands would fit perfectly in the post-rock category. Bands like MBV, The Catherine Wheel, Slowdive, Swervedriver, Ride, Chapterhouse, Lush and Mercury Rev were doing their thing years before Radiohead and the likes hit the scene.
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DEATH TO FALSE PROG!
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Asyte2c00
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 15 2006
Location: United States
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Points: 2099
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Posted: October 10 2006 at 18:47 |
Bastille Dude wrote:
The shoegazer scene of the 90's is completely removed from goth that it is not even comparable. Two different styles of music that were as close as Metal was to Disco.
The above mentioned bands would fit perfectly in the post-rock category. Bands like MBV, The Catherine Wheel, Slowdive, Swervedriver, Ride, Chapterhouse, Lush and Mercury Rev were doing their thing years before Radiohead and the likes hit the scene.
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then tell the Collabs to do it. Chamberry, Will You Advocate this motion?
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Jimbo
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Posted: October 10 2006 at 19:25 |
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I'm hardly an expert in this field, but honestly, I think this is a can of worms best left un-opened. I really don't see a much of a connection with prog, and moreover, if we add shoegazer as a sub-genre, we would eventually receive endless demands about adding various other indie-rock bands to the site, and frankly, the last time I checked prog and indie were two separate beasts.
The fact that we have Post-rock here is already controversial enough, no need to make things even more difficult IMO.
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OpethGuitarist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 25 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1655
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Posted: October 12 2006 at 09:16 |
Trickster F. wrote:
Asyte2c00 wrote:
darksinger wrote:
isn't shoe gazer music known more widely as "goth"? |
it has some similarities to goth msuic, however, I would asociate goth with bands like Evanescence, Lacuna Coil, in the woods, Type of Negative, Agalloch, early-Dead Can Dance, Joy Division, The Gathering, Stream of Passion ect....
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Sorry, but I cringed looking at how you mixed up actual goth rock music, with non-goth, mallcore AND some of the greatest Prog-Metal my ears have ever heard.
Back to the topic, I have only heard My Bloody Valentine, yet from what I have heard I can gather that this is not a style of music completely opposite to progrock's values. Whether it would make sense to include on the site is another question, as we would need more people who specialise in this genre, and as far as I am concerned, Indie fans rather than fans of Prog listen to Shoegaze, so this could be troublesome. |
agreed brother you've got a very broad interpretation of Goth if you are going to mix Evanescence with Agalloch, neither of which are goth
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back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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Asyte2c00
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 15 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2099
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 18:20 |
OpethGuitarist wrote:
Trickster F. wrote:
Asyte2c00 wrote:
darksinger wrote:
isn't shoe gazer music known more widely as "goth"? |
it has some similarities to goth msuic, however, I would asociate goth with bands like Evanescence, Lacuna Coil, in the woods, Type of Negative, Agalloch, early-Dead Can Dance, Joy Division, The Gathering, Stream of Passion ect....
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Sorry, but I cringed looking at how you mixed up actual goth rock music, with non-goth, mallcore AND some of the greatest Prog-Metal my ears have ever heard.
Back to the topic, I have only heard My Bloody Valentine, yet from what I have heard I can gather that this is not a style of music completely opposite to progrock's values. Whether it would make sense to include on the site is another question, as we would need more people who specialise in this genre, and as far as I am concerned, Indie fans rather than fans of Prog listen to Shoegaze, so this could be troublesome. |
agreed brother
you've got a very broad interpretation of Goth if you are going to mix Evanescence with Agalloch, neither of which are goth
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And I direct you to this thread posted earlier this year.
Evanescence is goth, albeit bad goth, but goth nonetheless.
Your definition of goth seems provincial to the more urbane music fans on PA and eslewhere. You don't have to be like Bauhaus, Sisters of Mercy, and Danse Society to be goth.
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tardis
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 18:22 |
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Hmm...The Verve were sub-categorized as Shoegazer but they're definitely not goth!
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Asyte2c00
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Posted: October 16 2006 at 18:26 |
tardis wrote:
Hmm...The Verve were sub-categorized as Shoegazer but they're definitely not goth! |
Yeah, You are correct.
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OpethGuitarist
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Joined: June 25 2006
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Posted: October 17 2006 at 09:07 |
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you're directing me to a thread you created? that doesn't make anything correct
i can say all day in another thread that genesis is jazz but that doesnt make them jazz
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back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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Asyte2c00
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 15 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2099
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Posted: October 17 2006 at 16:52 |
OpethGuitarist wrote:
you're directing me to a thread you created? that doesn't make anything correct
i can say all day in another thread that genesis is jazz but that doesnt make them jazz
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your missing the point.
The point is that Agalloch and Joy Division both have goth influences in their music. Whether they are purely goth is questionable. Moreover, since people in the thread suggested bands like Type 0 Negative and Agalloch that further validates my conjecture that these bands are more or less goth.
Who care's if I made the thread, Peter Gabriel, or Peter Hammill made the thread, it has not effect upon the information included within the thread.
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Asyte2c00
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Joined: January 15 2006
Location: United States
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Posted: October 17 2006 at 16:54 |
DCD + Sheogazer bands=
accurate representation of the development of post rock.
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Shoegazer (Sub-Catergory)
