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mystic fred 
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 Posted: September 06 2006 at 01:31 |
Since we have established that our great hero and former Prime Minister Winston Churchill was black (incidentally his mother was from the United States), and former PM Maggie Thatcher was a woman (subject for discussion) when are the USA or USSR going to have a black or female President? 
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VanderGraafKommandöh
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Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
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Points: 89372
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Posted: September 06 2006 at 01:35 |
Well if Arnie becomes the next President, he'll be saying "I'll be black"! Oops!  Unless Condi suddenly decides to run for President, I cannot see it happening.
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KoS
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 17 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Points: 16310
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Posted: September 06 2006 at 01:37 |
 Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
[QUOTE=NaturalScience]
I have no doubt you know much more about US History than a good majority of the high school graduates in this country.
[QUOTE]
It's not me Natural Science, the only advantage to leave in a country like Perú (Well there are a lot bit not for the majorities), is that we have to learn from the rest of the world, so our education system (That is far from good except in private schools) tries to give a view of the rest of the world and most Peruvians see USA as the center of the world.
I'm sure every Latin American kid knows that Washington is the capital of USA but how many USA students know that Lima, Quito and La Paz are the capitals of Perú, Ecuador and Bolivia?
The problem of USA school system is that you are in fact the most powerful nation and the education system doesn't care about many things like hitory of the resyt of the world or even your own history.
Being a bit more humble will allow students to learn more about the rest of the world.
Iván |
Interesting enough, my first year of Spanish in high school was spent on memmorizing the entire Spanish speaking world. We had to memorize the founding dates too.
Edited by king of Siam - September 06 2006 at 01:38
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TheProgtologist
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: May 23 2005
Location: Baltimore,Md US
Status: Offline
Points: 27802
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Posted: September 06 2006 at 02:04 |
Geck0 wrote:
Well if Arnie becomes the next President, he'll be saying "I'll be black"!Oops!  Unless Condi suddenly decides to run for President, I cannot see it happening.
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He can't be president.
You have to have been born here to be able to run for office.Naturalized US citizens don't count.
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: September 06 2006 at 02:07 |
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I know that, but I think he's hoping on some rule change, as I'm pretty sure he would love to be President.
Not that I'd hope the voting US citizens would vote him (I hope).
It's likely it could be Hillary Clinton though...
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KoS
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 17 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Points: 16310
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Posted: September 06 2006 at 02:10 |
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Hillary would be an interesting president. I'm just putting that out there.
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Padraic
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Posted: September 06 2006 at 14:28 |
Geck0 wrote:
I know that, but I think he's hoping on some rule change, as I'm pretty sure he would love to be President.
Not that I'd hope the voting US citizens would vote him (I hope).
It's likely it could be Hillary Clinton though...
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"some rule change" would mean amending the Constitution - as you Brits would say, "not bloody likely". As for Hillary, she will be the first woman to run for President (in a major party, at least - don't know if some woman affiliated with a fringe party ever tried to run), but I have my doubts about her victory.
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Syzygy
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Joined: December 16 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 7003
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Posted: September 06 2006 at 15:09 |
The Lost Chord wrote:
I KNEW he was black, i knew it |
Well, he was called Winston and Adolf Hitler hated him - there is some evidence to support the argument, especially as Bill Clinton referred to himself as the 'first black president of the USA' without any noticeable irony .
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'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'
Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: September 06 2006 at 20:20 |
Reminds me of a skit I saw on Jay Leno.....of him asking random people questions.
Q: WHat president freed the slaves?
A: JFK
Q: What Ocean is Los Angeles on?
A: The Atlantic
Q: What is Mt. Rushmore
A: ISnt it that mountain that blows up?
Q: What presidents are on Mt. Rushmore?
A: George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, and.... Gerald Ford
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darksinger
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 1091
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Posted: September 08 2006 at 12:10 |
Borealis wrote:
^ Velvet Room posters haven't come here yet. Do they feel concerned, or it's too boring ?... 
we have produced a generation that expects endless entertainment, and instant gratification via shallow materialism and fashion.
Right on, Peter. What I am the most affraid is not the lack of interest in history (of course, there's a minimum requiered! Nothing in the example posted above should be accepted! You know, not everyone should or has interest in that...), its more about no desire of evolving, growing up spiritually or intellectually. Some said all they can talk about is beer, girl, rock'n'roll and ect... NO, they can't even do that! They says absolutely abything constructive, just throw up a couple of easy cliché all the time and share them with people that think the same too! It's just the 'I get a work, fund a familly, I die' thing. That's ALL.
In Québec's CEJEP (two-three year long school we usually enter at 17), There's is Philosophy class. We are one of the few place in the world that have the oppotunity of having philosophy classes at this low age. And I love those classes! But well, I am of the the very few that doesn't hate it! That make me crazy of seeing them... No one listen, they all are tired and frustrated and fix the clock so the class end. And I won't says what I hear from them... so stupid...
But, isn't this what the governement wants? Dumb workers that keeps their machines running without asking a question, or wanting an answer? |
ummm...
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darksinger
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 1091
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Posted: September 08 2006 at 12:13 |
king of Siam wrote:
Hillary would be an interesting president. I'm just putting that out there. |
what would be interesting is a debate between the hildabeest and Ann Coulter. not to see where they stand or on what issues they agree, but just to see how soon it is before they trash the set trying to kill each other.
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darksinger
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 1091
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Posted: September 08 2006 at 12:17 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
NaturalScience wrote:
I have no doubt you know much more about US History than a good majority of the high school graduates in this country.
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It's not me Natural Science, the only advantage to leave in a country like Perú (Well there are a lot bit not for the majorities), is that we have to learn from the rest of the world, so our education system (That is far from good except in private schools) tries to give a view of the rest of the world and most Peruvians see USA as the center of the world.
I'm sure every Latin American kid knows that Washington is the capital of USA but how many USA students know that Lima, Quito and La Paz are the capitals of Perú, Ecuador and Bolivia?
The problem of USA school system is that you are in fact the most powerful nation and the education system doesn't care about many things like hitory of the resyt of the world or even your own history.
Being a bit more humble will allow students to learn more about the rest of the world.
Iván |
I know enough about world history to know France can only win wars if led by delusional teenage girls and/or foreigners...I also know blowing up a civilian activist ship in the harbour of another sovereign country is construed as a "French military victory", as is the creation of the European Economic Community...
Edited by darksinger - September 08 2006 at 12:19
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Rosescar
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 07 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 715
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Posted: September 08 2006 at 12:24 |
Hierophant wrote:
Well... lets see
2 years of preschool
1 year of kindergarten
8 years of gradeschool
4 years of high school
1 year of college and counting...
Never once learned about:
The Vietnam War
The Gulf War
Iran Contra
The Constitution
The Cuban Missile Crisis
It
seems that the schools love spending time on the civil war WWI &
WWII and ancient civilizations. You usually get to around 1945 near the
end of the year and by that time you'll be lucky if you learned
anything new. I never actually touched on the Constitution of the
United States until the last year of high school where we briefly
touched on it in a college level class that you had to pay extra for. A
good 10 years of my life was wasted picking out adjectives and verbs in
sentences and trying to multiply two digit numbers. The standard 8
grades should be condensed into 4 and high school from 4 to 2 with an
emphasis on math and science. 80% of the material taught in schools is
repeated from the first grade. 
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This goes for me, too. I especially hate the terrible emphasis on World
War II; especially as a Dutchman, it's really almost all the history
you get. I don't know why the hell World War I started - I'm supposed
to learn that this schoolyear, and this is my second-to-last schoolyear
o_o;; What's even worse is that I don't actually know why WWII started
either.
As for the intelligence going down... I'm very much afraid so at
certain moments. Not so much the marks of my classmates go down, but
they're... culturally deprived. I think only me and maybe two others in
my class know that Bach is not actually classical music - though, one
of the good things is that some people atleast pretend they're very
smart and distinguished.
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My music!
"THE AUDIENCE WERE generally drugged. (In Holland, always)." - Robert Fripp
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darksinger
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 1091
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Posted: September 08 2006 at 12:52 |
Rosescar wrote:
Hierophant wrote:
Well... lets see
2 years of preschool
1 year of kindergarten
8 years of gradeschool
4 years of high school
1 year of college and counting...
Never once learned about:
The Vietnam War
The Gulf War
Iran Contra
The Constitution
The Cuban Missile Crisis
It seems that the schools love spending time on the civil war WWI & WWII and ancient civilizations. You usually get to around 1945 near the end of the year and by that time you'll be lucky if you learned anything new. I never actually touched on the Constitution of the United States until the last year of high school where we briefly touched on it in a college level class that you had to pay extra for. A good 10 years of my life was wasted picking out adjectives and verbs in sentences and trying to multiply two digit numbers. The standard 8 grades should be condensed into 4 and high school from 4 to 2 with an emphasis on math and science. 80% of the material taught in schools is repeated from the first grade.
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This goes for me, too. I especially hate the terrible emphasis on World War II; especially as a Dutchman, it's really almost all the history you get. I don't know why the hell World War I started - I'm supposed to learn that this schoolyear, and this is my second-to-last schoolyear o_o;; What's even worse is that I don't actually know why WWII started either.
As for the intelligence going down... I'm very much afraid so at certain moments. Not so much the marks of my classmates go down, but they're... culturally deprived. I think only me and maybe two others in my class know that Bach is not actually classical music - though, one of the good things is that some people atleast pretend they're very smart and distinguished.
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World War One started as a result, famously, of an assassination of a Prince.
World War Two started because of a silly little homicidal maniac named Adolph Hitler and his notion he'd like to own the world.
Of the two, the real "world" war was WW2-most of WW1, or the Great War, was confined primarily to Europe.
The Gulf War initially was a dispute over oil drilling rights between Iraq and Kuwait, which the UUSA and the UN said had to be solved by them and Saddam Hussein interpreted that as "Go and destroy Kuwait".
The Vietnam War and The Korean War were conflagrations that were part of the Cold war actually, as was the Soviet-Afghanistan War. the Cuban Missile Crisis was actually this: The USA had built missile bases in Turkey or some place on the Caspian Sea (I think it was the Caspian) within site of the vacation area of I think it was Kruschev (sp?). The USSR, known for its sense of humour, decided to build missile bases in Cuba as a response, not realising the Kennedys were a couple of potential homicidal maniacs (unlike Teddy, who actually is). Eventually, an agreement would be reached that the USA would remove the offending missile bases and the Russians ceased building theirs in Cuba, but the whole thing was spun to look like Kennedy stopped this whole unistigated event by the USSR.
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JJLehto
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Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: September 08 2006 at 12:55 |
My history teacher was great, but as said before...we didnt go over alot of stuff.
WWII we covered in one day, Korea in....20 minutes
Hell, the 1960's on was basically a 3 day blur. Luckilly he inspired me to actually want and do research outside the class on all that stuff.
Edited by JJLehto - September 08 2006 at 12:55
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VanderGraafKommandöh
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Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: September 08 2006 at 13:02 |
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Actually, that Prince was Archduke Franz Ferdinand and he was shot by a Serbian man, Gavrilo Princip, in the city of Sarajevo (then in Bosnia). Princip was a member of Young Bosnia.
Now, the shooting of an Austrian Archduke in Sarajevo wouldn't normally start a war, so obviously there was more to it than that. The Great War is one of those odd wars, whereby it was started over something that seemed to be isolated from most of the world, yet escalated into something much bigger. There are still debates now as to what exactly the causes were, as the assassination was just the final catalyst.
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darksinger
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 1091
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Posted: September 08 2006 at 13:05 |
What bothered me later was alot of cool stuff was skimmed over horribly...
for example-ancient civilizations were confined primarily to Egypt, Greece and Rome, with only a skimming on the Near Eastern civilizations of Assyria, Babylon and Sumeria, which I later became more interested in the art of that region. We did even touch Celts, the African civilaztions such as Ethiopia, the far eastern civilizations or the american civilizations. This was before the Core Curriculum Content standards, which dictate what kids learn when. we knew about the germanic invasions and migrations, but we did not know about the Vikings, except Leif Ericksson discovered America. we knew Charlemange existed and was influential, but not that there was a Carolingian (sp?) Renaissance before the more noted Renassiance (first person with an Annie Haslam joke will be going down!).
I learned more about ancient and medieval history from Art History survey one, which was dedicated solely to art and its role prior to the Renaissance.
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darksinger
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 1091
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Posted: September 08 2006 at 13:10 |
Geck0 wrote:
Actually, that Prince was Archduke Franz Ferdinand and he was shot by a Serbian man, Gavrilo Princip, in the city of Sarajevo (then in Bosnia). Princip was a member of Young Bosnia.
Now, the shooting of an Austrian Archduke in Sarajevo wouldn't normally start a war, so obviously there was more to it than that. The Great War is one of those odd wars, whereby it was started over something that seemed to be isolated from most of the world, yet escalated into something much bigger. There are still debates now as to what exactly the causes were, as the assassination was just the final catalyst.
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One of the big problems with WW1 was that the concepts were still rooted in medieval and neo-classical thought-a war would not start over an assassination now. The big tragedy of it was these thoughts did not catch up to the modern weaponry used. Trench warfare is good in the wars of the 1700's and 1800's, but artillery and aeroplanes made it obsolete, for example.
I think involvement on the level it was on was because of the treaties involved-the same reason WW2 escalated as fast as it did.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: September 08 2006 at 13:14 |
Geck0 wrote:
Actually, that Prince was Archduke Franz Ferdinand and he was shot by a Serbian man, Gavrilo Princip, in the city of Sarajevo (then in Bosnia). Princip was a member of Young Bosnia.
Now, the shooting of an Austrian Archduke in Sarajevo wouldn't normally start a war, so obviously there was more to it than that. The Great War is one of those odd wars, whereby it was started over something that seemed to be isolated from most of the world, yet escalated into something much bigger. There are still debates now as to what exactly the causes were, as the assassination was just the final catalyst.
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That definatley was the final straw, but as he said there was ALOT more to it.
Basically, since the 1870s (i believe) Germany was growing, in all ways. WHich was a threat to the current world leaders (Britian, France). So Allinaces, on both sides were formed. Both sides built up their militaries just incase.
The Balkans was a land of strife as many people were fighting over control of it.
The assassination was indeed the final straw, tensions broke. I believe it was Britian hat declared war on Germany...thus France and Russia (obliged due to their alliance) got dragged in. The ottoman empire and austria-hungary went with Germany (although Germany basically fought it all)
Causes of WWI:
Economic Competition
Militarism
Nationalism
Entangling Alliances
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Padraic
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Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
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Points: 31169
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Posted: September 08 2006 at 13:15 |
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For those going to college now, try to fill in all the gaps that were left by your high school education, particularly in history as shown by the posts above. My university in particular has one of the finest history departments in the country, and I took classes like History of the Third Reich and History of the French Revolution from world renowned experts in those topics. Indeed, I even took a class called the History of the 1960s because that time period was never covered in any high school class.
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Winston Churchill was black
