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oliverstoned 
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Joined: March 26 2004
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 Posted: August 23 2006 at 10:47 |
 Ghost Rider wrote:
oliverstoned wrote:
It's rather the fact that it's forbidden that makes -not only- youth wants to transgress the prohibition.
-There has been a huge rise of alcohol comsuption during the prohibitive years in the USA.
-France is the EU country where young smokes the more pot whereas it's the more prohibitive country, and Netherlands, the freer, has one of the lower rate of young canna consumers in EU.
Also, french government diabolizes canna but allows very dangerous psychotropic "medications" to please the pharmaceutic mafia.
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I have to say I agree 100% with you, even if I've never taken drugs or been interested in taking them. Italy has very strict laws about drugs, but this has not helped discourage people from using them - especially as regards extremely dangerous synthetic drugs such as Ecstasy. Anyway, I am completely against any kind of prohibition, as I feel it is stupid and hypocritical. After all, everyone is free to go to a supermarket and buy all the bottles of wine and spirits available, and no one would bat an eyelid - far from that! Besides, you are perfectly right about "legal" drugs, such as antidepressants or tranquillisers, which are often prescribed by doctors without due care. I know of at least two people who have almost been turned into vegetables by heavy use of such legally available drugs. |
Indeed, some people on Prozac heard "voices" and this very dangerous product induces addiction and creates an artificial depressive syndrom, which adds itself to the depression the patients are intially suffering from.
After 15000 joints and many experiments, i've never heard "voices"...-which is not to say that it's not dangerous at all-.
Edited by oliverstoned - August 23 2006 at 11:49
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oliverstoned
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Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
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Points: 6308
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 10:57 |
mystic fred wrote:
sorry to sound like your auntie on this subject, i am not immature, i have no teenage sons, but i have spent the last several years of my working life (as a security officer) discouraging hundreds of teenagers from using drugs, however soft. Fair enough there are cigarettes, which i dissuade youngsters from using but they still do, and the RESPONSIBLE use of alchohol is ok, i.e. not drinking and driving/bingeing for starters. What really irritates is so called responsible adults advocating soft drugs, even the Police let us down by re-classifying cannabis, but it does lead to schizophrenia and brain damage, believe me i've known people affected by it and many (but not all) move onto harder drugs, dealers, criminality etc.etc. anyone remotely interested in rock knows the dangers of "experimentation" through what happened to many including Syd Barret for instance, who was a heavy user. Other members of Floyd were worried about him at the time and eventually sacked him from the band, i love psychedelic music such as Hawkwind (see my reviews!) and have never felt the need to take drugs to appreciate them. There have been many oppportunities, i'm glad i never took them. That's all i have to say further on this subject and that's my opinion, agree or disagree. [IMG]height=17 alt="Stern Smile" src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley22.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle>
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You can't talk about weed or others products, cause obviously you've never tried it.
You would not like if someone comes and tell you that drinking one glass of wine or beer will ruin your life, whereas this person has never drink a drop of alcohol.
Moreover, what bugs me in your speech is that you exagerate cannabis drawback effects: it only leads to schizophrenia "1%" of the people having such tendency. And the relationship between canna and schizo has not been proved yet.
Alcohol abuse involves not only terrible physical effects, but also psychological diseases.
Alcohol addiction and "delirium tremens" are terrible things. Many people have their life totally ruined by alcohol, when they don't ruined other people life because of it.
Only car accident caused by alcohol kills thousands of people and COSTS MUCH MORE TO SOCIETY than canna.
And moreover, may i remind you that we're on an adult site, and that psychedelic subtances are a foundation of psychedelic/progressive music, that you like it or not.
Edited by oliverstoned - August 23 2006 at 12:29
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Jim Garten
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Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 12:26 |
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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oliverstoned
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 12:28 |
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Hehe, during 13 years of daily use, i precise!
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oliverstoned
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 12:31 |
Well, eventually it's rather 20 000! 
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mystic fred
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Joined: March 13 2006
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 12:33 |
oliverstoned wrote:
mystic fred wrote:
sorry to sound like your auntie on this subject, i am not immature, i have no teenage sons, but i have spent the last several years of my working life (as a security officer) discouraging hundreds of teenagers from using drugs, however soft. Fair enough there are cigarettes, which i dissuade youngsters from using but they still do, and the RESPONSIBLE use of alchohol is ok, i.e. not drinking and driving/bingeing for starters. What really irritates is so called responsible adults advocating soft drugs, even the Police let us down by re-classifying cannabis, but it does lead to schizophrenia and brain damage, believe me i've known people affected by it and many (but not all) move onto harder drugs, dealers, criminality etc.etc. anyone remotely interested in rock knows the dangers of "experimentation" through what happened to many including Syd Barret for instance, who was a heavy user. Other members of Floyd were worried about him at the time and eventually sacked him from the band, i love psychedelic music such as Hawkwind (see my reviews!) and have never felt the need to take drugs to appreciate them. There have been many oppportunities, i'm glad i never took them. That's all i have to say further on this subject and that's my opinion, agree or disagree. [IMG]height=17 alt="Stern Smile" src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley22.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle>
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You can't talk about weed or others products, cause obviously you've never tried it.
You would not like that someone comes and tell you that drinking one glass of wine or beer will ruin your life, whereas this person has never drink a drop of alcohol.
i am perfectly able to talk about these "products" oliver, i have seen their effects, i don't have to try them. do doctors have to smoke to advise patients against lung cancer, or become alchoholics to warn patients about liver disease?
Moreover, what bugs me in your speech is that you exagerate cannabis drawback effects: it only leads to schizophrenia "1%" of the people having such tendency. And the relationship between canna and schizo has not been proved yet.
drug addiction starts with a single hit
Alcohol abuse involves not only terrible physical effects, but also psychological diseases.
Alcohol addiction and "delirium tremens" are terrible things. Many people have their life totally ruined by alcohol, when they don't ruined other people life because of it.
Only car accident caused by alcohol kills thousands of people and COSTS MUCH MORE TO SOCIETY than canna.
yes agreed........abuse of anything will kill you. most adults drink responsibly and it will not become a problem, there are laws against drivling and driving, and scientists have proved smoking dope affects driving skills.
And moreover, may i remind you that we're on an adult site, and that psychedelic subtances are a foundation of psychedelic/progressive music, that you like it or not.
so all this wonderful music is all a result of dope - to a degree it is, that is well documented, but are you saying all prog musicians are on dope, and need to smoke dope to write and play good music? as i said in a previous thread Geaorge Martin scrapped a lot of Beatles stuff because their playing was affected by smoking dope, and some musicians were sacked from bands for the same reason?
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 Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Sean Trane
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Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
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Points: 20414
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 12:41 |
Fred,
Doctors who don't smoke don't know how hard it is to stop smoking and the pure joy of swallowing smoke. >> Havannas are including on the sheer joy of swallowing smoke as you do noyt even inhale it >> like fake Clinton did.
Drinking responasbly ??? just like you can smoke Mary Jane responsably as well >> less addictive too.
Driving skills while stoned (on weed) are also affected, but contrary to alcohol, the driver is usually driving slower than speed limits. not the case for alcohol. Big diff in case of an accident.
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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oliverstoned
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Joined: March 26 2004
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 12:54 |
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"drug addiction starts with a single hit"
Or a single sip, a single legal pill...
"and scientists have proved smoking dope affects driving skills"
Don't you read my answers?
Canna--> increase car accident's risk per 2.
Alcohol--> increase car accident's risk per 8.
(Latest conclusions from A GOVERNMENTAL STUDY ORDERED BY THE PROHIBITIVE GOVERNMENT ITSELF).
"abuse of anything will kill you"
-->yes but some product's abuses have terrible consequences on the whole community.
"but are you saying all prog musicians are on dope, and need to smoke dope to write and play good music? as i said in a previous thread Geaorge Martin scrapped a lot of Beatles stuff because their playing was affected by smoking dope, and some musicians were sacked from bands for the same reason?"
My answer is Yes.
You like the Beatles?
Their music has completely changed (for the best) since "Revolver" when they discovered psychedelics.
They came from frivolous pop music (they were under legal amphetamines at the beggining )to a far more progressive music, thanks to lucidogens.
Edited by oliverstoned - August 23 2006 at 12:54
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oliverstoned
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Joined: March 26 2004
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Points: 6308
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 12:56 |
Sean Trane wrote:
Fred,
Doctors who don't smoke don't know how hard it is to stop smoking and the pure joy of swallowing smoke. >> Havannas are including on the sheer joy of swallowing smoke as you do noyt even inhale it >> like fake Clinton did.
Drinking responasbly ??? just like you can smoke Mary Jane responsably as well >> less addictive too.
Driving skills while stoned (on weed) are also affected, but contrary to alcohol, the driver is usually driving slower than speed limits. not the case for alcohol. Big diff in case of an accident.
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Indeed, with alcohol, you have a false control's impression.
You're intoxicated by the official speech.
Edited by oliverstoned - August 23 2006 at 12:58
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Zoso
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 501
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 13:15 |
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I smoke weed regularly and have done shrooms and salvia, but I think I'm going to wait on acid.
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oliverstoned
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Joined: March 26 2004
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 14:35 |
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Well, doing acid today is quite risky IMO, as you're not sure about the product's purity.
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 15:05 |
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I'd like to say that Fred's and any other person's preaching that
cannabis causes lung cancer and brain damage is utter nonsense. A
recent scientifical study proved that cannabis does not cause lung
cancer, and other studies have proven that cannabis does not cause
brain damage (in fact, THC is very similair to a chemical we naturally
have in our brains). Furthermore, cannabis isn't physically addictive,
and when used with moderation, cannabis is actually less dangerous than
normal cigarettes and alcohol.
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 15:32 |
ADMIN NOTE
Please remember the site rules in relation to "Illegal activities". Whether you like it or not, or agree with it or not, dealing in drugs and taking drugs is illegal.
Anyone considered to be promoting the use of drugs here will be considered to be breaching the site rules.
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darksinger
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 1091
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 15:35 |
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i have smoked copious amounts of Litter Green kitty litter and ingested handfuls of green M&M's
Edited by darksinger - August 23 2006 at 17:02
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video vertigo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 17 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1930
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 16:56 |
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Oliverstoned and Phileas:
not that I don't believe you but I am interested, where did you find your statistics?
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"The rock and roll business is pretty absurd, but the world of serious music is much worse." - Zappa
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darksinger
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 1091
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 17:01 |
mystic fred wrote:
sorry to sound like your auntie on this subject, i am not immature, i have no teenage sons, but i have spent the last several years of my working life (as a security officer) discouraging hundreds of teenagers from using drugs, however soft. Fair enough there are cigarettes, which i dissuade youngsters from using but they still do, and the RESPONSIBLE use of alchohol is ok, i.e. not drinking and driving/bingeing for starters. What really irritates is so called responsible adults advocating soft drugs, even the Police let us down by re-classifying cannabis, but it does lead to schizophrenia and brain damage, believe me i've known people affected by it and many (but not all) move onto harder drugs, dealers, criminality etc.etc. anyone remotely interested in rock knows the dangers of "experimentation" through what happened to many including Syd Barret for instance, who was a heavy user. Other members of Floyd were worried about him at the time and eventually sacked him from the band, i love psychedelic music such as Hawkwind (see my reviews!) and have never felt the need to take drugs to appreciate them. There have been many oppportunities, i'm glad i never took them. That's all i have to say further on this subject and that's my opinion, agree or disagree. 
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here here!
there are only a couple of times in my life i actually got high (although my friends thought i was "riding shotgun" when they smoked stuff around me), both by accident. One time, I was adhering a silk screen in my basement, which has no ventilation. For those of you not familiar with silk screening, you cut a "stencil" out of lacquer film and adhere the lacquer to a frame with silk stretched on it. to do this, you use acetone to melt the lacquer to the silk. So I had breathed in alot of acetone fumes and was extremely pleasant for several hours despite having a headache.
the other time, i had a monster migraine (i am prone to migraines) and had accidentally taken tylenol and advil too close to each other, combined with the caffiene and aspartame of diet soda. everything in me seemed to be accelerated and a rush just went through me.
i also had bizarre effects off of the now banned seldane, which had been prescribed to me for allergies at the time. one was this light-headedness and just everything seems to pull away from me. I stopped taking it right away.
Most of my hallucinating comes from my lack of sleep. It is not unusual for me to be up until i see bugs crawling all over me...
I do not recommend any of this to anyone....especially because i don't want the admins to think i'm endorsing anything...
Edited by darksinger - August 23 2006 at 17:04
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Certif1ed
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Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 17:04 |
Jim Garten wrote:
Certif1ed wrote:
I am totally ashamed of all those nights spent wandering around fields, woods and mystic stone circles, watching bands like Hawkwind, Here & Now and the Ozric Tentacles playing with cosmic lightshows, and druids performing ages-old ceremonies, women dancing naked... |
You indulged at Here and Now gigs too, eh? 
Seriously - I think none of us quoted in my previous posting would ever glorify or advocate the use of drugs; the point is like it or not, they can have their up-sides as well as their down-sides - but the very fact they have their (occasionally very serious) downsides must make anyone who is even considering trying them think very carefully before going ahead. |
Absolutely, Jim - one does not, after all, require drugs to enjoy music, stone circles or naked women - especially at the same time. And I have to say that mushrooms are not illegal per se - only if prepared, and I believe the laws are fairly lax concerning them at present, as with Salvia.
There is nothing intrinsically wrong with getting high - drinking alcohol does that. And there's a jolly good reason that people take recreational drugs - they can make you feel very good indeed - so good, that you just want to do it all over again.
But as you crave a greater and greater high, you end up poisoning yourself. Every time I have eaten a particular variety of mushroom, they have made me physically sick.
There's a basic law of physics - what goes up MUST come down.
There's also a basic law of Russian Roulette - some enjoy the thrills of the game, but a few never play it again.
In one case, a dear friend of mine became medically schitzophrenic after smoking cannabis - and I mean approximately 20 minutes after smoking it. She would eventually recover, as the effects wore off, but she had already developed a psychological addiction to it. Every time she smoked it, she got worse and worse until the invitable happened and she took her own life - which was a tragedy for her partner and children, not to mention her many friends.
When you have seen people try to commit suicide because of the effects of the drugs they have taken, it makes you think twice. Next time it could be you - it really is that random.
You cannot rely on drugs to give you a good time - which is one good reason for not bothering in the first place.
But there's no stopping the terminally curious!
Edited by Certif1ed - August 23 2006 at 17:11
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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oliverstoned
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Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 17:05 |
video vertigo wrote:
Oliverstoned and Phileas:
not that I don't believe you but I am interested, where did you find your statistics? |
If you talk about the governmental study result stating that Alcohol multiplicate accident's risk per 8 and canna per 2, i read it on Le monde or Le figaro, our biggest "newspapers".
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darksinger
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 1091
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 17:06 |
Certif1ed wrote:
Jim Garten wrote:
Certif1ed wrote:
I am totally ashamed of all those nights spent wandering around fields, woods and mystic stone circles, watching bands like Hawkwind, Here & Now and the Ozric Tentacles playing with cosmic lightshows, and druids performing ages-old ceremonies, women dancing naked... |
You indulged at Here and Now gigs too, eh?
Seriously - I think none of us quoted in my previous posting would ever glorify or advocate the use of drugs; the point is like it or not, they can have their up-sides as well as their down-sides - but the very fact they have their (occasionally very serious) downsides must make anyone who is even considering trying them think very carefully before going ahead. |
Absolutely, Jim - one does not, after all, require drugs to enjoy music, stone circles or naked women - especially at the same time. And I have to say that mushrooms are not illegal per se - only if prepared, and I believe the laws are fairly lax concerning them at present, as with Salvia.
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the problem with banning salvia is that it is a common garden plant, if i'm correct...i think i even had it in my gardens a long time ago.
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Certif1ed
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Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
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Posted: August 23 2006 at 17:13 |
darksinger wrote:
Certif1ed wrote:
Jim Garten wrote:
Certif1ed wrote:
I am totally ashamed of all those nights spent wandering around fields, woods and mystic stone circles, watching bands like Hawkwind, Here & Now and the Ozric Tentacles playing with cosmic lightshows, and druids performing ages-old ceremonies, women dancing naked... |
You indulged at Here and Now gigs too, eh? [IMG]smileys/smiley9.gif" align=middle> Seriously - I think none of us quoted in my previous posting would ever glorify or advocate the use of drugs; the point is like it or not, they can have their up-sides as well as their down-sides - but the very fact they have their (occasionally very serious) downsides must make anyone who is even considering trying them think very carefully before going ahead.[IMG]smileys/smiley22.gif" align=middle> |
Absolutely, Jim - one does not, after all, require drugs to enjoy music, stone circles or naked women - especially at the same time. And I have to say that mushrooms are not illegal per se - only if prepared, and I believe the laws are fairly lax concerning them at present, as with Salvia. |
the problem with banning salvia is that it is a common garden plant, if i'm correct...i think i even had it in my gardens a long time ago. |
Yes, and hemp is a common plant, as are poppies...
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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