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Starette View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2005 at 02:56
Originally posted by Bob Greece Bob Greece wrote:

Originally posted by RaphaelT RaphaelT wrote:

the bulk of Fish - period material was about Derek's problem with relationship and it was quite mysogynic (Script For A Jester's Tear, The Web, the whole Fugazi, large parts of Misplaced Childhood). So you would not expect many girls listening to that stuff.

Originally posted by Starette Starette wrote:

*gets desperate, bangs head again'st wall in fustration and decides to calm herself down by listening to Marillion*

RaphaelT ...can you inform me about the apparent mysogeny behind Script for a Jester's Tear? I've just got into Marillion more than anyone else at the moment so I'm all of a sudden quite interested.

50 tonne angel falls to the earth...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2005 at 03:13
I don't want to get into any trouble and I write this thoroughly objectively.
I'm hypothesizing an additional link to ol' Lawrence Summer's statement
regarding men and women in science.

Noting that the thought has crossed Summer's mind that men naturally
excel in science more than women for brain chemistry makeup reasons
(complicated, but the example that made sense was that autism oftens
leads to genious math minds - such as mathematician and economist
Steve Nash - and is linked to testosterone imbalances while in the womb.
This is why men are more often autistic) and that substantive tests have
also linked music with math it might follow that complex music is easier
to digest and sort through by men than women.

Sound too far fetched? Yah, it does for me too. It's more likely social
constructions that track men towards prog. Don't know what they are
though.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2005 at 03:22

Originally posted by AngleofRepose AngleofRepose wrote:

Noting that the thought has crossed Summer's mind that men naturally
excel in science more than women for brain chemistry makeup reasons
(complicated, but the example that made sense was that autism oftens
leads to genious math minds - such as mathematician and economist
Steve Nash - and is linked to testosterone imbalances while in the womb.
This is why men are more often autistic) and that substantive tests have
also linked music with math it might follow that complex music is easier
to digest and sort through by men than women.

Interesting that autism connection with men. Maybe this also has something to do with women generally being more sociable than men.

I wonder, are men more likely to be introverted than women?

By the way, who is Summer?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2005 at 03:25
Lawrence Summers is the President of Harvard who made the
aforementioned comment regarding men perhaps being innately better in
math and science than women and drew a lot of attention and criticism. It
happened within the last year, can't remember exactly when. I'm sure
there are innumerable news stories on the internet about it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2005 at 03:31
Originally posted by Franklinstower3 Franklinstower3 wrote:

My friend and i were discussing this very thing a few hours ago! haha. Anyway our theory is that most woman are more concerned about what people think of them and therefore will try and "fit in with the crowd" so until prog becomes popular most woman wont like it. Could be all wrong just my two cents.

No comment....

Seriously speaking, there seem to be a lot of people in this thread who are venting their anger or contempt at women using music as an excuse... What I really think is that there aren't just "men" and "women", but individuals that can be extremely different to each other as concerns feelings, tastes, abilities and so on. In my opinion, it's more a question of "mass" against "individual" than of "men" against "women". Nowadays most PEOPLE (irrespective of gender) tend to try and fit in with the crowd, doing what it's generally considered cool to do.

Back to prog.... I've got many male friends, and only one of them is seriously into prog. The others like everything from Anastacia to Lloyd Webber musicals, and they hardly know who Yes or ELP are - let alone more obscure acts!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2005 at 11:34
Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:

Seriously speaking, there seem to be a lot of people in this thread who are venting their anger or contempt at women using music as an excuse... What I really think is that there aren't just "men" and "women", but individuals that can be extremely different to each other as concerns feelings, tastes, abilities and so on.

I'd like to express some contempt in a perpendicular direction - what annoys me is that the societies in which we live, despite their attempts at social sexual equality, only attain anything approaching it in a superficial, spoken way. The reason women tend away from prog (and, indeed, tend to stick with "normal" things that most people do) is that beneath all the political correctness, the intertia of prejudice continues. Despite what people say, they're unlikely to bring up (by bringing up I mean throughout lives here) their daughters/female friends & relatives /female students/girlfriends/wives/any other women whose lives they have influence on in anything like such a tolerant way to quirks and individuality as would be afforded to the male equivalents - the old ideal of a girl being married off to a nice rich man still affects far too many decisions, even if (and presumably it usually is) it's subconcious.

As you so rightly say, each person on his or her own terms is a more relevant to see people than any kind of group in which he/she can be placed, but I doubt it's going to happen in my lifetime. So do I think women, in the way they're brought up, are generally incapable of liking progressive rock or having so much personal taste as a man will have.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2005 at 05:11

Oh dear dear dear, Thus the contraversy already discussed in this thread such a long long time ago arises once again.

Yoohoo? Was Derek Dick a mysoginist? (Look at my previous post- I need some answers here! )

50 tonne angel falls to the earth...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2005 at 07:14
I don't know anything about him, but he certainly didn't seem to have much luck with women, judging from his songs. Maybe one caused the other...
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