Is ELP against christianity

I highly suggest you try religion somehow or another and atleast try to open you mind atleast once in your life enough to accept somekind of religion if your going to critizise it. Like in prog, don't evaluate and critizise an album without listening to it, and not just once but many times, this is the same with religion. It is very immature and ignorant to dismiss or ridicule religion if you have not even tried it. See what it is like to believe in God for a little while and study it before you say that it is all bad and wrong.

Arteum:

Again, you proceed from false assumption.  Firstly, my grounding is science - and, ironically, particularly physics - is almost unarguably greater than yours.  I was a student of Michio Kaku, a theoretical physicist who is one of the major proponents of the superstring theory.  I dare say I have read more "hard science" books than you have, in more areas of science, including physics, biology, chemistry, anthropology, naturalism, etc.  I am conversant in areas as diverse as the mating habits of lions and the properties of quarks, gluons, mesons and neutrinos.  And I take a back seat to no one (other than trained scientists) in astrophysics and superstring theory - not out of arrogance, but because I have read and studied more deeply than most.

Evolution?  I would bet that 90% of the people who engage in debate on this issue have never even read "The Origin of Species" or "Descent of Man," or read them so long ago that they haven't the foggiest idea what they actually say.  I have read both of them twice, once only months ago, so they are fresh in my mind.  You are probably one who thinks that Darwin was an atheist who set out to disprove the existence of God.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  Darwin was a Christian whose only earned degree was in theology.  And though his faith wavered at times, he remained a Christian throughout his life, becoming a deacon of his church, and being buried in Westminster Abbey.

What Darwin set out to prove was not that God did not create life.  He set out to prove that God did not create every individual plant, insect, animal, etc. as an act of "special creation," but that species "evolved" through "natural selection."  However, Darwin credited that to God.  The following is quoted from the "Summary and Recapitulation" of "The Origin of Species":

"Authors of the highest eminence seem to be fully satisfied with the view that each species has been independently created.  To my mind, it accords better with what we know of the laws impressed upon matter by the Creator that the production and extinction of the past and present inhabitants of the world should have been due to secondary causes...There is grandeur in this view of life...having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one."  (Emphases mine.)  Not exactly a stinging rebuke of those who believe in God, is it?  Thus, Darwin believed that the "laws of the universe" - including evolution - were "impressed upon matter" by God.  There is no other interpretation of his statement.

You say faith "represses" thinking?  Au contrarie!  "There is more in heaven and earth, Horatio, than is dreamt of in your philosophy."  Similarly, the "Judeo-Christian construct" I believe in has far more room for the secular - logic, science, psychology, philosophy, etc. - than your narrow atheistic construct has for faith, metaphyics and anything you can't see, hear, taste, touch or smell.  So whose thinking is being repressed?

Flawed brain?  I was invited to join Mensa when I was 15.  I was an honors math student from 5th to 10th grade.  I had the highest sophomore average in the history of my high school.  I am a national champion crossword puzzle solver.  I have never taken a law class, yet have won every case I have ever argued in court (over 15 of them), whether pro se or on behalf of others, out-arguing even high-priced attorneys.  I engage in reasoned, solidly supported debates with Ph.D.'s in a variety of subjects.

Flawed brain?  I think not.

Coward?  I'll tell you what.  Let's meet.  Then let's have someone put a gun to each of our heads.  Let's see who is afraid to die and who isn't.  Let's see who reacts from fear and who doesn't.  Does this mean I do not care about my life?  Of course not.  But it means that I have something you don't: an inner peace - a direct result of my faith - that it is unlikely you could achieve even if you wanted to.

Let me leave you with a quote from no less an authority on science and rationalism than Albert Einstein:

"Even though the realms of religion and science in themselves are clearly marked off from each other, nevertheless there exists between the two strong reciprocal relationships and dependencies.  Though religion may be that which determines the goal, it has, nevertheless, learned from science, in the broadest sense, what means will contribute to the attainment of the goals it has set up.  But science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with the aspiration toward truth and understanding.  The source of this feeling, however, springs from the sphere of religion.  To this there also belongs the faith in the possibility that the regulations valid for the world of existence are rational, that is, comprehensible to reason.  I cannot conceive of a genuine scientist without that profound faith.  The situation may be expressed by an image: religion without science is blind; science without religion is lame." (Emphasis mine.)

Peace.

dropForge wrote: Looks like there's one thing many of us agree on: with a couple of exceptions, ELP's got some pretty crappy lyrics! I think Greg cooked 'em up on the fly, most of the time... Btw, I've always wondered why atheists like to yak about God so much. If you don't believe in God, why would He even be a concern? It doesn't seem..."logical." Hmmm...

With so much religion as there is in US, I in fact ignore 99% of it. But sometimes I think I might just ask (mayn't I?) why people want to abandon logic and stick to some vaguely formulated unbelievable-in beliefs.

Recently, however, I've been applying more and more strict "filtering" to my acquaintances and contacts. If the person believes in God, I stop talking to him/her. Right now this policy does not apply to my boss, but it will be soon applied to the members of this forum.

'we pull jesus from the hat

get into that

get into that'.

what does it mean?

Arteum:

Again, you proceed from false assumption.  Firstly, my grounding is science - and, ironically, particularly physics - is almost unarguably greater than yours.  I was a student of Michio Kaku, a theoretical physicist who is one of the major proponents of the superstring theory.  I dare say I have read more "hard science" books than you have, in more areas of science, including physics, biology, chemistry, anthropology, naturalism, etc.  I am conversant in areas as diverse as the mating habits of lions and the properties of quarks, gluons, mesons and neutrinos.  And I take a back seat to no one (other than trained scientists) in astrophysics and superstring theory - not out of arrogance, but because I have read and studied more deeply than most.

Evolution?  I would bet that 90% of the people who engage in debate on this issue have never even read "The Origin of Species" or "Descent of Man," or read them so long ago that they haven't the foggiest idea what they actually say.  I have read both of them twice, once only months ago, so they are fresh in my mind.  You are probably one who thinks that Darwin was an atheist who set out to disprove the existence of God.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  Darwin was a Christian whose only earned degree was in theology.  And though his faith wavered at times, he remained a Christian throughout his life, becoming a deacon of his church, and being buried in Westminster Abbey.

What Darwin set out to prove was not that God did not create life.  He set out to prove that God did not create every individual plant, insect, animal, etc. as an act of "special creation," but that species "evolved" through "natural selection."  However, Darwin credited that to God.  The following is quoted from the "Summary and Recapitulation" of "The Origin of Species":

"Authors of the highest eminence seem to be fully satisfied with the view that each species has been independently created.  To my mind, it accords better with what we know of the laws impressed upon matter by the Creator that the production and extinction of the past and present inhabitants of the world should have been due to secondary causes...There is grandeur in this view of life...having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one."  (Emphases mine.)  Not exactly a stinging rebuke of those who believe in God, is it?  Thus, Darwin believed that the "laws of the universe" - including evolution - were "impressed upon matter" by God.  There is no other interpretation of his statement.

You say faith "represses" thinking?  Au contrarie!  "There is more in heaven and earth, Horatio, than is dreamt of in your philosophy."  Similarly, the "Judeo-Christian construct" I believe in has far more room for the secular - logic, science, psychology, philosophy, etc. - than your narrow atheistic construct has for faith, metaphyics and anything you can't see, hear, taste, touch or smell.  So whose thinking is being repressed?

Flawed brain?  I was invited to join Mensa when I was 15.  I was an honors math student from 5th to 10th grade.  I had the highest sophomore average in the history of my high school.  I am a national champion crossword puzzle solver.  I have never taken a law class, yet have won every case I have ever argued in court (over 15 of them), whether pro se or on behalf of others, out-arguing even high-priced attorneys.  I engage in reasoned, solidly supported debates with Ph.D.'s in a variety of subjects.

Flawed brain?  I think not.

Coward?  I'll tell you what.  Let's meet.  Then let's have someone put a gun to each of our heads.  Let's see who is afraid to die and who isn't.  Let's see who reacts from fear and who doesn't.  Does this mean I do not care about my life?  Of course not.  But it means that I have something you don't: an inner peace - a direct result of my faith - that it is unlikely you could achieve even if you wanted to.

Let me leave you with a quote from no less an authority on science and rationalism than Albert Einstein:

"Even though the realms of religion and science in themselves are clearly marked off from each other, nevertheless there exists between the two strong reciprocal relationships and dependencies.  Though religion may be that which determines the goal, it has, nevertheless, learned from science, in the broadest sense, what means will contribute to the attainment of the goals it has set up.  But science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with the aspiration toward truth and understanding.  The source of this feeling, however, springs from the sphere of religion.  To this there also belongs the faith in the possibility that the regulations valid for the world of existence are rational, that is, comprehensible to reason.  I cannot conceive of a genuine scientist without that profound faith.  The situation may be expressed by an image: religion without science is blind; science without religion is lame." (Emphasis mine.)

Peace.