re: ELP, Haven't aged well?

They've aged fine, thank you. I even saw Keith Emerson on a Harley a few years back at Wilshire and Santa Monica.

The band that has aged the worst is Genesis. Their 70's albums sound like they were produced in the 60's.

Garion81 wrote: I think their music influences a lot of modern prog artists.  Not so much as Genesis for sure and somewhat Yes but I hear their music in Neal Morse’s music, Jordan Rudess, Izz, Mars Hollow, Echolyn, Spocks Beard and others. Not so much basing their sound on them but in composition and keyboard sounds.

Edited by Gerinski - May 29 2010 at 08:55

jammun wrote: Garion81 wrote: richardh wrote: boo boo wrote: Toccata always makes me think of a gory battle on a dark and stormy night. Except that part makes me think of an arcade where every machine is possessed. I love it.    Ginastera was VERY impressed with ELP's adaptation of his piece, and said it captured the mood of his piece better than anyone else's version.   ELP really were the best at adapting classical works and putting them into a rock context much in the same way Zep were the best at adapting blues works and putting them into a hard rock context.   I don't really agree with people that ELP were w**kers, it's not any more w**king than what you hear in classical music. That never made sense to me, in classical music something is considered a masterpiece and when brought into a rock context it's considered structureless w**king. I really hate that word anyway.   Unfortunately a lot of critics and kids think anything that isn't 4/4 and verse/chorus/verse is self indulgent noise and instrumental music is inherently boring. What can ya do? I think the w**king was more aimed at things like on the PAAE film when for 'The Old castle' Emerson takes the portable stick synth (has a name but can't remember it) and well has a good ole 'w**k' in front of the audience   Actually I find this quite funny!   Toccata is a brilliant track and I'm glad there are others that appreciate it. It was right on the cutting edge of what prog is all about and still stands the test of time.One of the highlights of BSS for sure. It is called a theremin. Not a synth.  Just a device that makes weird sounds the closer you bring something to it such as your hand or when he would rub it on his ass.   He modified his to shoot fireworks out of it.  He used it on the recent  E&L tour but didn't shoot fireworks out. of it but he did rub his ass with it.   Are we sure it was a theramin?  He used to walk out into the audience with his ribbon controller and zap the audience.  You can hear it 'zapping' at the end of side one of Pictures.

Garion81 wrote: richardh wrote: boo boo wrote: Toccata always makes me think of a gory battle on a dark and stormy night. Except that part makes me think of an arcade where every machine is possessed. I love it.    Ginastera was VERY impressed with ELP's adaptation of his piece, and said it captured the mood of his piece better than anyone else's version.   ELP really were the best at adapting classical works and putting them into a rock context much in the same way Zep were the best at adapting blues works and putting them into a hard rock context.   I don't really agree with people that ELP were w**kers, it's not any more w**king than what you hear in classical music. That never made sense to me, in classical music something is considered a masterpiece and when brought into a rock context it's considered structureless w**king. I really hate that word anyway.   Unfortunately a lot of critics and kids think anything that isn't 4/4 and verse/chorus/verse is self indulgent noise and instrumental music is inherently boring. What can ya do? I think the w**king was more aimed at things like on the PAAE film when for 'The Old castle' Emerson takes the portable stick synth (has a name but can't remember it) and well has a good ole 'w**k' in front of the audience   Actually I find this quite funny!   Toccata is a brilliant track and I'm glad there are others that appreciate it. It was right on the cutting edge of what prog is all about and still stands the test of time.One of the highlights of BSS for sure. It is called a theremin. Not a synth.  Just a device that makes weird sounds the closer you bring something to it such as your hand or when he would rub it on his ass.   He modified his to shoot fireworks out of it.  He used it on the recent  E&L tour but didn't shoot fireworks out. of it but he did rub his ass with it.

Are we sure it was a theramin?  He used to walk out into the audience with his ribbon controller and zap the audience.  You can hear it 'zapping' at the end of side one of Pictures.

Kojak wrote: Garion81 wrote:   It is called a theremin. Not a synth.  Just a device that makes weird sounds the closer you bring something to it such as your hand or when he would rub it on his ass.   He modified his to shoot fireworks out of it.  He used it on the recent  E&L tour but didn't shoot fireworks out. of it but he did rub his ass with it.   Alison Goldfrapp plays her theremin with her c**t, and she recently said, that if there was enough money in the world, she would go out playing with an orchestra every night..Do you think she's unwittingly carrying the baton for Keith Emerson..??

I want to point out that Fish is so 80s to begin with.  Maybe there are people still trying to sing like Gabriel because they think prog Genesis should have never died, but it's not the contemporary singing style in much prog.  I don't know what precisely is the reason for keyboards not being so important anymore in prog, but it may have to do with jazz/fusion becoming less popular from 80s onwards and prog rock emphasising the ROCK far more than prog (and with prog metal becoming a major force in the prog scene, guitar is simply non negotiable in prog now).  But that doesn't necessarily mean ELP in particular haven't aged well, unless we are pop listeners (as in the ones who hop from one trend to another) rather than prog listeners.   Palates brought up on music without much keyboard would find ELP a strange beast and cry "Dated" at them but how does the presence of keyboard, and specifically organ, by itself make them dated?  Musically, it is still an interesting approach for the listener, it doesn't HAVE to have a frame of reference in contemporary trends to not be dated. 

Rather than dated, I would say ELP's albums are a little emotionally dispensable. I have this issue with Gentle Giant as well, that neither seem to be able to capture moods powerfully and emphasise rock n roll energy much more. Which is not a bad thing, but something like Starless...that's timeless and magical because the song has strong emotional resonance.  It does not make ELP bad or deserving of so much criticism, but it may explain why Tarkus isn't always regarded as highly as, say, Red.  It's not just ELP in any case, much prog, old or new, is like that...the emotional expression is rarely immediate or powerful or both.

richardh wrote: boo boo wrote: Toccata always makes me think of a gory battle on a dark and stormy night. Except that part makes me think of an arcade where every machine is possessed. I love it.    Ginastera was VERY impressed with ELP's adaptation of his piece, and said it captured the mood of his piece better than anyone else's version.   ELP really were the best at adapting classical works and putting them into a rock context much in the same way Zep were the best at adapting blues works and putting them into a hard rock context.   I don't really agree with people that ELP were w**kers, it's not any more w**king than what you hear in classical music. That never made sense to me, in classical music something is considered a masterpiece and when brought into a rock context it's considered structureless w**king. I really hate that word anyway.   Unfortunately a lot of critics and kids think anything that isn't 4/4 and verse/chorus/verse is self indulgent noise and instrumental music is inherently boring. What can ya do? I think the w**king was more aimed at things like on the PAAE film when for 'The Old castle' Emerson takes the portable stick synth (has a name but can't remember it) and well has a good ole 'w**k' in front of the audience   Actually I find this quite funny!   Toccata is a brilliant track and I'm glad there are others that appreciate it. It was right on the cutting edge of what prog is all about and still stands the test of time.One of the highlights of BSS for sure.

Garion81 wrote: ^ Was ELP really more extravagant than anyone else?  I remember Jethro Tull having a costumed zebra come out on stage and sh*t black and white tennis balls that Ian Anderson picked up and juggled.  How is a spinning piano (which was only used a few times) any weirder than that?  Or the giant Pig balloon the size of a Macy's parade balloon that Pink Floyd had in between two smoke stacks that were on each side of the stage.   Back to ELP they used cannons at the Isle of Wright.  Keith had his theremin that shot out fireworks and then the computer lights overlay on the back of the moog and organ at the end of Karn Evil 9 the revolving drum riser.  Keith throwing his Hammond around and sticking knives in the keys but he had been doing that since The Nice. The video screens on the 1977 tour was the only thing added to that. What else?  That was it.  They didn't even use lasers that I remember.

Not really calling them out on that...maybe a little.  '70s was a time of excess and extravagance for all rock bands (Kiss, anyone?).  It's just that I'd expected ELP to be a bit above it all.  I hung with them as long as I could.  Bought both Works albums, bought Love Beach (in spite of the cover), bought Emerson Lake & Powell.  I kept hoping for another Tarkus.  Even bought one of Emerson's soundtracks (whatever the Stallone movie was).  Eventually I decided to quit beating my head against that particular wall.

Toccata always makes me think of a gory battle on a dark and stormy night. Except that part makes me think of an arcade where every machine is possessed. I love it. 

Edited by boo boo - May 26 2010 at 12:10