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richardh View Drop Down
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Points: 28039 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: ELP's importance not fully recognised
    Posted: February 15 2010 at 02:29
Great thread.I've been away for a while but good to be back.
 
ELP were a problematic band to say the least. I think most of the main points have been covered but I would say the reasons they are not considered to be as important as say Genesis or Yes are as follows:
a) ELP best music came in a short period -1970-1974.
b) ELP were not a musically consistent band like Pink Floyd. You have to accept their quirky side on tracks like Benny The Bouncer to really appreciate them.
c) They were not as intellectual as Floyd and Genesis so the lyrics seemed childish compared to those bands.
d)In 1977  music critics used them as an example of all that had gone wrong in music (although ELP brought this on themselves with the misguided Works Volume One).In affect their legacy was downgraded which is one reason I have an almost pathological hatred of music critics.Of course ELP fell off a cliff creatively from about that time but the albums they made between 1970 and 1974 still hold up and should be regarded as being as important as anything else from that time (IMO)
 
 
 
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Points: 65261 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2010 at 00:44
Originally posted by Malve87 Malve87 wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

in reality, not only are they probably still the most well-known prog band (worldwide, especially among non-proggies),


That's Genesis...and Pink Floyd, too...Tongue



No-- that's Genesis as a pop band, not a prog one

and Pink Floyd trandscends "prog" and even rock as one of most popular entities of all time
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Points: 29 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2010 at 00:40
Excelente las respuestas que he leído en este foro.
El trío es sobriamente respetable y admirable.
La magnitud del aporte a la evolución musical de ELP, y
la manera fresca y virtuosa como lo han hecho es motivo
incluso para un Premio Nobel...
Sin embargo espero se haya comprendido que es difícil
imaginar para ELP la popularidad de las "estrellas" mercadeadas
por la "industria de la fama". Haría falta mayor educación de la sensibilidad musical.
Inicié este foro por cierta nostalgia por esa "popularidad"...
el reconocimiento mundial que ELP amerita. Ahora Keith recibe premio en Berlín!
(Excellent responses I've read in this forum.
The trio is soberly respectable and admirable.
The magnitude of the contribution to the musical development of ELP and
how fresh and virtuous as they have done it, is cause even for a Nobel Prize ...
However I hope is understood that it is difficult
imagine for ELP the popularity of the marketed "stars" by the "industry of fame". It would require more education of musical sensibility.
I started this forum for a certain nostalgia for the "popularity" ...
worldwide recognition that ELP requires. Now Keith receives award in Berlin!)
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2010 at 05:39
If this helps, you all should know that Homer Simpson is a fan. There. I think this volumes about ELP's recognition. Big smile

You can see it for yourselves here: http:// www.wtso.net/movie/471-2111_Million_Dollar_Maybe.html

The ELP moment is 3 minutes in and is so full of win Cool
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Points: 1038 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2010 at 08:33
Originally posted by Losendos Losendos wrote:

genesis were superstars sold out wembley 4 days running.
Supertramp were also superstars
The moodies were superstars too
 


Genesis were popular in the 70s but not really top level superstars, that came more with their 1980s pop incarnation. Supertramp and the Moody Blues are more crossover bands and not strictly prog IMO.

ELP really were huge in the early  and mid-70s with only Yes rivalling them for global commercial success among prog bands. They were one of the four biggest grossing live acts in 1974 along with Led Zep et al and co-headlined the California Jam with Deep Purple.


Edited by Cactus Choir - February 05 2010 at 08:36
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Points: 571 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2010 at 05:00
genesis were superstars sold out wembley 4 days running.
Supertramp were also superstars
The moodies were superstars too
 
King Crimson are legends but that is somewhat different
How wonderful to be so profound
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Points: 443 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2010 at 04:53
There where only three prog bands that were elevated to superstar status
 
1. PINK FLOYD
2 YES
3 ELP
 
Yes, they were very important to the prog genreClap
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Points: 5 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2010 at 04:29
Hello Prog Lovers,
 
This is a really interesting debate - and long overdue; as one old enough to cite a newly-formed ELP as my introduction to the genre I still say, to this day, they have never been surpassed in everything that is and was "prog". They were by no means the first prog band - the genre evolved slowly from the psych/art rock movement, but I think they were all that was prog and everything that entailed, and in my very humble opinion, everything else has been a poor imitation. There have been many bands of equal talent (or even better), particularly from other parts of Europe, but for me ELP=prog.
 
Thanks everyone for a great forum, and best wishes from one who was there!
".......nobody ever messed with the sherriff"
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Points: 1243 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2010 at 19:59
Originally posted by Losendos Losendos wrote:

great band in their heyday but their fall was hard and they never got a second wind unlike Genesis Yes and Pink Floyd. 


What about Black Moon and to a lesser extent In The Hot Seat (its far far away from being their best but it contains some nice tunes + a spectacular version of Pictures at an Exhibition)
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Points: 8615 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2010 at 19:21
ELP are very well recognised, and deserving of every bit of attention they recieve, but what really irks me are some of the groups inspired by ELP, like Triumvirat, Latte e Miele, or even Le Orme and Triade and The Trip that somehow, with one thing or another, have tended to get lost in the shuffle. These groups have even made music better than ELP, and are really unrecognised-that is the real tragedy!
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Points: 571 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2010 at 00:23
great band in their heyday but their fall was hard and they never got a second wind unlike Genesis Yes and Pink Floyd.  Some how they got identified with all that was wrong with prog which is totally unfair even to being dubbed the second worst band of all time . Brain salad surgery must be one of the best ten prog albums of all time but even prog fans are divided about this band .
 
Some random thoughts ; I think in the end karma plays a hand in what one's legacy is . Maybe the Gods did not like the regular atheist tracks.
How wonderful to be so profound
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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2010 at 02:52
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

  Pink Floyd  at this point wasn't much more than a jam band. 


I stongly disagree with that, PF's psychedelic music was the end of a compositional effort, contrary to jam and improvisation. [/QUOTE]
 
That is partly true;
 
Some of Pink Floyd's early work was kind of drafted, like an architectural blueprint (3 of the Floyd were architecture students, IIRC), and they created a framework containing pre-composed ideas - but improvised heavily around this structure.
 
That was the main difference between them and regular psychedelic bands - and, seemingly contradictorily why they sound so much like them too. Smile
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Points: 1601 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2010 at 20:07
ELP doesn't seem that unapproachable to me as many have said.  It was definitely the first prog I ever heard and I was immediately drawn in.  That being said, it was the first album, not that "welcome back my friends" garbage.
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Points: 65261 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2010 at 19:50
and Prog still gets a cold shoulder, at least in the write-ups and articles I read (granted they're usually by non-progophiles), with the winking and derisive 'humor' about an indulgent, inconsiderate form of music...  you'd think by now things would've come around and the genre would get the appreciation it surely deserves - that some maverick in music journalism with the guts and insight to give credit where it's due would stand up - but no, it's still more than cool to Prog-bash, even with Genesis' HoF induction.  So be it.  Their loss.


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Points: 1029 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2010 at 19:33
Originally posted by Malve87 Malve87 wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

in reality, not only are they probably still the most well-known prog band (worldwide, especially among non-proggies),


That's Genesis...and Pink Floyd, too...Tongue

Anyway ELP is not my favorite band, but I like them;
you have to thank punk (Dead)  for today's ELP "reputation"...the fools...Angry

Yeah. Punk failed to kill prog in 77 (despite what the media might tell you), but damn, it did kill the media's perception of prog. I still see Yes and ELP jabs in the mainstream music press...Angry 

It is a big media beat-up, though. Prog didn't just vanish in 1977, as we all know here. It's just that public tastes and attitudes changed. They reverted to wanting to hear 2 or 3 minute songs, rather than epics. That said, the big stadium bands that punk wanted to kill off were still selling out huge tours in the late 70s. Zeppelin played to a massive crowd at Knebworth 79, right? Pink Floyd were still reeling them in. 
Hello, mirror. So glad to see you, my friend. It's been a while...
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2010 at 06:36
Originally posted by Garion81 Garion81 wrote:

Pink Floyd  at this point wasn't much more than a jam band. 


I stongly disagree with that, PF's psychedelic music was the end of a compositional effort, contrary to jam and improvisation. I do agree with you on your main stand though, AHM and Tarkus do represent completely different stages of development for progressive rock (like adolescence and maturity). They can't really be part of the same discussion.


Edited by harmonium.ro - January 27 2010 at 06:36
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Points: 3968 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2010 at 05:24
Originally posted by Marty McFly Marty McFly wrote:

 
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:


     You may already know that Prog usually requires repeated listening to unerstand what's going on and apreciate it, so you may just as well try again, and again, and again, until you are sure you do like them or not. I myself don't like many of their songs, and I don't like all of Tarkus, but some parts of it are uneniably amazing.

It does, that's right. But most of music I've been listening (prog music), didn't want repeated listens, only few. I of course will give them a chance. If this chance fails, I'll give more, I just wanted to say that it's not easy catch of my heart.


I've talked about it with my girl and have to say that she also heart them once, but didn't remember much of their music. "A lot of solos & improvisations, maybe too much" she said.

At first (last year), I didn't like Gentle Giant. Now, I quite like them.

I almost wanted to say: "Don't teach eagle to fly."
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Points: 252 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2010 at 05:21
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

in reality, not only are they probably still the most well-known prog band (worldwide, especially among non-proggies),


That's Genesis...and Pink Floyd, too...Tongue

Anyway ELP is not my favorite band, but I like them;
you have to thank punk (Dead)  for today's ELP "reputation"...the fools...Angry
]
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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2010 at 03:56
I don't actually like most ELP that I've heard, but the early stuff is undenably great prog.
 
My personal opinion is that most of The Nice output is far superior to any of the ELP material - but ELP are the influential ones, and carried on the tradition set by The Nice, taking the musical ideas to new and  more ridiculous levels...
 
10/10 for effort in the early years, 0/10 for "Love Beach". Dead
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Points: 3968 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2010 at 02:45
 
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:


     You may already know that Prog usually requires repeated listening to unerstand what's going on and apreciate it, so you may just as well try again, and again, and again, until you are sure you do like them or not. I myself don't like many of their songs, and I don't like all of Tarkus, but some parts of it are uneniably amazing.

It does, that's right. But most of music I've been listening (prog music), didn't want repeated listens, only few. I of course will give them a chance. If this chance fails, I'll give more, I just wanted to say that it's not easy catch of my heart.


I've talked about it with my girl and have to say that she also heart them once, but didn't remember much of their music. "A lot of solos & improvisations, maybe too much" she said.
There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

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