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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Transatlantic - superb band, but those religious..
    Posted: May 29 2012 at 05:06
Some of the gangster rap has the most repellant and obnoxious philosophy of life you can come across being pushed on the listener, but
a) You listen to stuff sometimes for a vibe, for an effect, sometimes that vibe is down and dirty and cartoonish and anti-social.
b) Whether the artist meant it or not, you can take it as a role/character they're playing for effect, rather than a representation of their world view.
 
For example, Carrie Underwood's Jesus Take The Wheel has one of the most shocking and irresponsible lyrical messages you're likely to find in a pop song. Yet I don't mind it because sonically it's fairly well constructed. Does Underwood actually think that in times of crisis we should abandon action and just hope things work out? Does she actually recommend that struggling mothers in traffic accidents with sleeping children in the back seat shouldn't even try to do anything but throw their hands up in the air and hope ghosts or other invisible life forms descend from the sky to rectify the situation? Probably not. But she was playing a character to appeal to a demographic who find the notion that in times of crisis, it's all up to Jesus, reassuring. I'm not part of that demographic but it wasn't news to me that it exists and is large enough to market product to, no reason to get upset about it.
 
Here's a good song with a Christian lyrics that I find kinda badass, about a woman whose abusive ex-partner comes back to her saying he's reformed and has found Jesus. Here's the chorus, but you might like to skip to the video and hear it for yourself:
 
"You say I should stay with you
That Jesus forgives you
You pray I will, but I won't
The difference is, Jesus loves you, I don't"

Ouch, I wince every time.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2012 at 21:13
Originally posted by prog4evr prog4evr wrote:

Originally posted by miketheorganist miketheorganist wrote:

What amazes me is that atheist prog fans get so offended by lyrics about God. What makes this any worse than any other topic? Why not just assign it to the realm of fantasy? You know, like, "What if there WERE such a being?" I mean, we can wonder about UFOs, ghosts, conspiracy theories, 2012, and have incomprehensible lyrics aplenty, but mention God and it's in the dumpster with it?  I mean, if I can manage to listen to a fasntasy story about a lamb lying down on broadway, with slippermen, hairless hearts, etc., why can't you listen to fantasy story about a supreme being who loves people?
^THIS^ Clap



I'm not the sort of atheist who takes offense to religious lyrics, but I think there is a slight distinction between fantasy-based lyrics and the lyrics that somebody like Neal Morse writes (keeping in mind, however, that I am one of the biggest NM fanboys you'll ever meet Tongue).

The difference is this... I doubt any of the people writing about Lord of the Rings-styled fantasy believe that Tolkien's writings are actually true and provide a believable worldview. People writing about Christianity often believe it as not only truth, but also as an accurate worldview. When you think this particular ideology is utter nonsense, it can be more difficult to overcome than lyrics that are intentionally nonsensical.

That's my opinion, at least. Smile

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2012 at 19:07
Don't care about the lyrics, the music is great. I prefer the lyrics to be christian themed rather than satanic.

Edited by Dellinger - May 28 2012 at 19:07
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2012 at 18:55
My opinion about Neal Morse's lyrics has changed a tad since I posted in this thread two years ago.  I'm still perfectly happy with the Christian themes (being a believer myself), but the more I listen to them, the more it seems to me that they're just not very good, regardless of what they're about.
 
I dunno.  I still love TA, and Neal Morse, but they don't impress me nearly as much as they once did.
"I am the one who crossed through space...or stayed where I was...or didn't exist in the first place...."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2012 at 14:51
To me, the lyrics are what make Transatlantic my number one favourite band Tongue And they match so nicely with the moods of the parts.. Duel With the Devil, for example has some of my favourite lyrics ever. And there's still pretty much room for interpretation. Most atheist lyrics don't bother me, and I don't see why they really should.
You love the music, the music loves you!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2012 at 14:12
Originally posted by prog4evr prog4evr wrote:

Originally posted by miketheorganist miketheorganist wrote:

What amazes me is that atheist prog fans get so offended by lyrics about God. What makes this any worse than any other topic? Why not just assign it to the realm of fantasy? You know, like, "What if there WERE such a being?" I mean, we can wonder about UFOs, ghosts, conspiracy theories, 2012, and have incomprehensible lyrics aplenty, but mention God and it's in the dumpster with it?  I mean, if I can manage to listen to a fasntasy story about a lamb lying down on broadway, with slippermen, hairless hearts, etc., why can't you listen to fantasy story about a supreme being who loves people?
^THIS^ Clap
 
 
Yea- whoever wrote that. You are winner.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2012 at 14:04
Originally posted by miketheorganist miketheorganist wrote:

What amazes me is that atheist prog fans get so offended by lyrics about God. What makes this any worse than any other topic? Why not just assign it to the realm of fantasy? You know, like, "What if there WERE such a being?" I mean, we can wonder about UFOs, ghosts, conspiracy theories, 2012, and have incomprehensible lyrics aplenty, but mention God and it's in the dumpster with it?  I mean, if I can manage to listen to a fasntasy story about a lamb lying down on broadway, with slippermen, hairless hearts, etc., why can't you listen to fantasy story about a supreme being who loves people?
^THIS^ Clap
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2012 at 14:00

People think Transatlantic have w*nkery and that it is confusing? Am I the only one who finds it not confusing enough and boring?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2012 at 13:53
i think there is a difference between songs about religion and religious songs
 
like the difference between a textbook about religions and the bible/koran/veda/what have you
 
i can enjoy the former in both cases, explorations of what it is to be human
 
the latter is usually about convincing someone, or trying to out-pious someone else, and is to be avoided at all costs
 
obviously there is a line of subtlety in the middle
 
i think earlier posters are right in that for the last 10 years or so, 'christians', or at least some of them, have been awfully irritating in the general culture and politics.  were the muslims as large a group or felt as safe (in the US) i am sure we would ahve seen the same.  so, right now, 'christian' lyrics, especially if overt, will leave a bad taste in many mouths.  this will offend some 'christians' , oh well.  these offended christians would likely be pretty upset if another religion was getting as much airplay in as many fields of music.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2012 at 10:09
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by dtguitarfan dtguitarfan wrote:

So...Neal Morse's God allowed himself to be put to death in the most gruesome and painful way imaginable in order to save mankind, and Neal wants to sing about it?!!!  HOW DARE HE!!!


Actually, Neal Morse isn't a Trinitarian, so I don't think he'd phrase it quite like that.  Wink

Well, the point is: HOW DARE HE BE INSPIRED BY HIS OWN RELIGIOUS VIEWS AND WRITE LYRICS ABOUT THEM!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2012 at 09:57
I'm not a fan of Rock as a form of evangelism, love spiritual themes, except when they try to use Prog as a way to convince people, despite what religion we are talking about.

But my main problem with Transatlantic is not related to their lyrics, my problem is the music, which I find boring, predictable and unimaginative.

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - May 28 2012 at 09:57
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2012 at 09:49
Originally posted by dtguitarfan dtguitarfan wrote:

So...Neal Morse's God allowed himself to be put to death in the most gruesome and painful way imaginable in order to save mankind, and Neal wants to sing about it?!!!  HOW DARE HE!!!


Actually, Neal Morse isn't a Trinitarian, so I don't think he'd phrase it quite like that.  Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2012 at 09:24
Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

  
 
But I don't like Neal Morse or Transatlantic because of the sheer bombastic w**kery. There's not even any ideas in The Whirlwind, it's just let's-go-as-over-the-top-up-our-own-butts-as-we-can-for-the-sake-of-it-and-confuse-forced-grandeur-with-passion.

How can you possibly know how much passion the band has?  

No ideas in The Whirlwind?  Haha, sorry, but I cannot even comprehend that kind of statement. 

If you don't dig Transatlantic, you don't dig them, but, IMO, they have created some of the best symphonic prog rock ever.  In fact, I'd put their three studio albums up against just about any bands' best three albums.  They are that good. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2012 at 21:13
Since it looks like this thread recently got bumped, I'd like to clarify my position - it's changed a lot since 2009.

Although I used to be a Christian and the lyrics didn't bother me, as an atheist nowadays, I can completely understand where the OP is coming from; I sincerely apologize about the sh*tty post I made a few years back. Looks like I took some major offense to the post (which I shouldn't have), and even though I'm able to overlook the preachy lyrics in return for awesome music, I understand if others are not able to do the same.

I made some pretty poor and regrettable posts over here a few years back, so I'll at least find the time to apologize for this one. Smile

Originally posted by J-Man J-Man wrote:

You don't like the lyrics.

You post a thread stating how you don't like the lyrics.

You waste my time by having me look at it.

I'm sorry but starting a thread about EVERYTHING WE DON'T LIKE is just poor forum behavior. If you don't like it, so what? We don't care, buddy.Wink

You're an atheist. I'm a Christian. I agree with Neal Morse. You don't. Get over it!

Wow, I'm actually getting angry right nowLOL

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2012 at 21:07
was interesting to see this thread bump.  wasn't here for the initial controversy.  initially, i was not too keen on neal's vocals or lyrics.  but damn, the guy can write a melody like no other this side of mccartney lennon.  so, i learned to like his vocals and 'deal' with the lyrics.  neal's theology is questionable, but at least he isn't too preachyApprove
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2012 at 17:05
Also, I think Bombastic w**kery would make a great name for a prog rock band.  Is it taken?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2012 at 16:48
So...Neal Morse's God allowed himself to be put to death in the most gruesome and painful way imaginable in order to save mankind, and Neal wants to sing about it?!!!  HOW DARE HE!!!

Edited by dtguitarfan - May 27 2012 at 17:04
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2012 at 16:41

So you think they confuse forced grandeur with passion and you like that? Ok....

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2012 at 16:39
Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

I'm an atheist but religious lyrics don't bother me. I listen to gangster rap, but that doesn't require me to endorse murder and drug dealing. I really like a lot of gospel stuff, got a lot of old churchy proto-Americana and bluegrass, there's a really interesting worship group called The David Crowder Band.
 
But I don't like Neal Morse or Transatlantic because of the sheer bombastic w**kery. There's not even any ideas in The Whirlwind, it's just let's-go-as-over-the-top-up-our-own-butts-as-we-can-for-the-sake-of-it-and-confuse-forced-grandeur-with-passion.

that's why i love them :)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2012 at 16:36
I'm an atheist but religious lyrics don't bother me. I listen to gangster rap, but that doesn't require me to endorse murder and drug dealing. I really like a lot of gospel stuff, got a lot of old churchy proto-Americana and bluegrass, there's a really interesting worship group called The David Crowder Band.
 
But I don't like Neal Morse or Transatlantic because of the sheer bombastic w**kery. There's not even any ideas in The Whirlwind, it's just let's-go-as-over-the-top-up-our-own-butts-as-we-can-for-the-sake-of-it-and-confuse-forced-grandeur-with-passion.
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