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Trippy Crossroads: U.S. Psychedelia & Krautrock

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moshkito View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16 hours 8 minutes ago at 02:00
Originally posted by Jacob Schoolcraft Jacob Schoolcraft wrote:

 
...
Absolutely! Beaver And Krause had a huge impact on musicians worldwide. 
...
experiments in sound by combining instruments and producing a "floating " or "flowing" vibe through melodic ...exotic improvisation. The way this came across differed from other people attempting to capture a kind of ambience.

Hi,

And they have been a part of my collection for at least 50 years, and were one of the first things I picked up, after the sound effects from various movies that used the electronics to create a mood and a soundtrack ... we have not quite considered that, and the idea, that it was some of those films that considered the music "foreign" and "outer space" (due to the images!!!) ... that became an idea for me. 

Beaver and Krause changed that idea into what is known as "here and now" ... as opposed to some idea that the music was foreign, and to me, that was an important thought, or concept. 

I have never, really considered one better/stronger than the others ... or that one inspired the other kind of thing ... they both came up at pretty much the same time, it was just like the idea/thought that someone wrote that the electronics in those days in America had two feelings ... the east coast and the west coast and that one was more free form and less composed than the other. It was a rather interesting thought in my mind since I tend to not look at the arts as one or the other, since it can easily be both and then become something else.

I do think, believe, that Europe made room for the music in it ... the USA did not, and electronics remained in the background, until some keyboard players were then mixing things really well, and it changed a lot of mechanics going forward, but I did not think that one was influencing the other as much as we might consider, since the opening/design of it, was very different, and the "krautrock" one was more performance oriented than the American version that was considered a freak many times, and weird. I never felt of any of the American artists as such at all ... which helped my being able to get into them so early ... and appreciate it a lot, as I do.


Edited by moshkito - 16 hours 6 minutes ago at 02:02
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Jacob Schoolcraft Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 hours 30 minutes ago at 19:38
Originally posted by GuruCan GuruCan wrote:

Back in the late 1960s, there was a cool cultural exchange happening
between American experimental musicians, like the electronic music duo
comprising Paul Beaver and Bernie Krause, and European artists who were
on the hunt for fresh ways to express themselves after World War II.
This interaction played a decisive role in the crystallisation of what
contemporary music then would be for young experimenters in the Old
World, as it absorbed influences from American avant-garde styles while
carving out its own distinct sound.
Beaver and Krause's albums
from the late 60s, as well as their works for film scores—e.g.,
"Rosemary's Baby" from 1968, directed by Roman Polanski—created a strong
driving force in the development of electronic music in Europe,
especially in West Germany. Beaver and Krause actually became pioneers
of electronic kosmische Musik, leaving their heavy mark on the genre as
their "cosmic"—not without a dash of psychedelia—use of synthesizers
not only chimed with the counterculture movement; it directly paved the
way for influential Krautrock bands such as Cluster and Kraftwerk, to
name a few.







Absolutely! Beaver And Krause had a huge impact on musicians worldwide. No doubt. The Grace Cathedral recordings were influential to many artists and super innovative in the sense that acoustics with a second delay or even half a second became experiments in sound by combining instruments and producing a "floating " or "flowing" vibe through melodic ...exotic improvisation. The way this came across differed from other people attempting to capture a kind of ambience.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote GuruCan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 10:09
Another U.S. band that blends psychedelia with an experimental rock attitude, thus reminiscent of the early Krautrock movement, is Quill from Boston. Quill's music combined odd sounds, often almost atonal scales, with social commentary, weird poetry, and irony. They were quite the buzz in New England, New York, and the mid-Atlantic states in the late 1960s. In 1969, they took the stage at Woodstock, but unfortunately, due to some technical hiccups, their stellar performance wasn't fully captured and didn't make it into the festival's film. Quill shared a similar innovative spirit with early Can, merging rock with avant-garde influences and a sense of unrestrained artistic freedom. They dropped one self-titled album in early 1970 and disbanded late in the spring of the same year.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote GuruCan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 08:08
Originally posted by Starshiper Starshiper wrote:

I, for one, would attribute the influence of the New York City psychedelic electronic duo Silver Apples and their first two albums on Krautrock as the most significant of those influences that came from the United States in the late 1960s. Silver Apples innovative use of synthesisers, hypnotic grooves, and repetitive rhythms parallels Krautrock's avant-garde ethos.
Silver Apples, with their freakin' use of synthesizers and looping rhythms, truly laid the groundwork for the Krautrock movement by inspiring German bands to explore experimental music that fused psychedelic rock of the era with avant-garde techniques!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 07:41
Originally posted by GuruCan GuruCan wrote:

...
West German record stores are the story within a story! The cities of former West Germany did have a high number of record stores during the late 60s and 70s, with releases of non-German artists printed under license in West Germany, as well as huge imports, including from the U.S. Actually, it was a surprising web of record stores that covered all of West Germany—some stores in big cities were really huge and were advertising that they offered "every record in the world"—that actually played a crucial role in shaping the musical landscape of the time.
...
Hi,

WOW ... FAR OUT ... that is the first time I have heard something "direct" about these things, and in this case the record stores. Not too surprised, since The Tower on the Strip was famous for a lot of releases, and Moby Disk lasted for a lot longer than most record stores doing what they did best ... but it makes sense that some of these stores stood out and helped things ... though this is the first time I have heard about it "directly".

Originally posted by GuruCan GuruCan wrote:

...
Most of these stores offered live performances as well. Record stores, in West Germany, were very essential organs of an emerging youth culture, which embraced all new forms of music. 
...

This is something that, did not happen in the LA area as far as I am aware of it ... but it is far out that these things were taking place. Santa Barbara did have a record store that housed Guy Guden and the Space Pirate stuff, for a few years, and the nice thing was you walked in and you were immediately listening to something else from Europe ... that part was cool. The live side of it, was kinda unknown, and I never really saw it, although I did get to see a few things early ... but at least some record stores were not exactly afraid of showing some imports though they were very few, but as soon as the American release was there at least one store in Santa Barbara played it ... (Billingsgate was an important label here) ... and Epitath, Lucifer's Friend, Frumpy, Scorpions (first album) and Neu ... were released here and to my knowledge Neu was the big seller, and later Scorpions, of course, but that was not an "import" any more as it had gotten fairly big a year or two later.

Originally posted by GuruCan GuruCan wrote:

...
record stores were instrumental in determining the development of West German popular music culture. Besides the records of pop-rock stars, they offered access to acts of esoteric genres that were hardly wider known. This accessibility helped foster a generation of musicians who would go on to influence both national and international music scenes.

The strange part of all this is that the book "Future Days" which is fairly good about the whole "krautrock" scene, at least it explains the many different areas, does not mention (that I can remember) the record stores, or even the performance side of it, except that ... the bands existed! It would be weird, for me, to find that none of these ever performed, when the whole "krautrock" thing was about performance, a lot more than anything else.

As I mentioned a long time ago ... a lot of this needs to be written down and compiled properly ... I am aware of theater and film, and often say silly things like there is no difference between Damo and Klaus Kinski, which some folks here do not like ... I always get the feeling they don't like me getting away/out of the theme "progressive" and get the audience fractured even more ... it feels like a religion based on bad translations already ... that are considered a sort of "law".

I have to find/read (AGAIN) the early issues of EUROCK because it does tackle a lot of the performance side of krautrock in the early days, which I have to admit, I did not exactly pay attention as much as otherwise ... I'll add to this as soon as possible ... but your assist here is MASSIVE and I hope that we can catalog it ... sure we would like to see PA help in this area.


Edited by moshkito - Yesterday at 07:44
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote GuruCan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 05:55
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by GuruCan GuruCan wrote:

Lothar and the Hand People were a Denver psychedelic rock band whose music spread into broad, eclectic sonic territories back in the 1960s. 
...
however, I'm not exactly sure that these would even come close to influence the German scene at all ... mainly because in those days, the LP's that had all the "foreign" music were IMPORTS, and only available in a few specialty stores (in my case Moby Disk in Van Nuys and the Tower on the Strip, and The Warehouse in Westwood) ... and they were expansive ... already in those days each import was about $12/$15 dollars each.
West German record stores are the story within a story! The cities of former West Germany did have a high number of record stores during the late 60s and 70s, with releases of non-German artists printed under license in West Germany, as well as huge imports, including from the U.S. Actually, it was a surprising web of record stores that covered all of West Germany—some stores in big cities were really huge and were advertising that they offered "every record in the world"—that actually played a crucial role in shaping the musical landscape of the time. These shops have created social places for the music aficionado, not simply retail. Most of these stores offered live performances as well. Record stores, in West Germany, were very essential organs of an emerging youth culture, which embraced all new forms of music. Very big record stores, some well-known, now often legendary, have come up in cities such as Berlin and Hamburg in the late 60s and early 70s. Unmistakably, they could have been recognisable because of the extended collection of vinyl records. 
Shops like "Plattenladen" in Munich were built to cater to tastes from eclectic to trendy, thus further enriching the colourful music scene of West Germany. Such record stores were instrumental in determining the development of West German popular music culture. Besides the records of pop-rock stars, they offered access to acts of esoteric genres that were hardly widely known. This accessibility helped foster a generation of musicians who would go on to influence both national and international music scenes.


Edited by GuruCan - Yesterday at 08:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 05:35
AMON DUUL II    A Krautrock band from Munich who are anything but dull, and if you've heard the original Amon Duul (whose albums sound like they were recorded in someone's garage), you'll know how much better their second incarnation is. Viva La Trance! Smile

 3 stars 1973: Amon Duul II - BBC Radio 1 Live in Concert - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pz5ZfePX5P4
 4 stars 1976: Amon Duul II - Pyragony X - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QI3VM_lLOc
 4 stars 1977: Amon Duul II - Almost Alive - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PRkLPHf8c0
 3 stars 1981: Amon Duul II - Vortex - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhtDEufzQ3U
 4 stars 1995: Amon Duul II - Nada Moonshine # - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXGOPJR9mmg
 3 stars 1996: Amon Duul II - Eternal Flashback - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9hR4FTfGsQ
 3 stars 1996: Amon Duul II - Live in Tokyo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6UMTE_aVkI
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote GuruCan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 01:02
Back in the late 1960s, there was a cool cultural exchange happening between American experimental musicians, like the electronic music duo comprising Paul Beaver and Bernie Krause, and European artists who were on the hunt for fresh ways to express themselves after World War II. This interaction played a decisive role in the crystallisation of what contemporary music then would be for young experimenters in the Old World, as it absorbed influences from American avant-garde styles while carving out its own distinct sound.
Beaver and Krause's albums from the late 60s, as well as their works for film scores—e.g., "Rosemary's Baby" from 1968, directed by Roman Polanski—created a strong driving force in the development of electronic music in Europe, especially in West Germany. Beaver and Krause actually became pioneers of electronic kosmische Musik, leaving their heavy mark on the genre as their "cosmic"—not without a dash of psychedelia—use of synthesizers not only chimed with the counterculture movement; it directly paved the way for influential Krautrock bands such as Cluster and Kraftwerk, to name a few.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2024 at 17:31
When the Music's Over and Summer's Almost Gone, spare a thought for Jim Morrison: forever remembered as one of the Riders on the Storm in the world of Psychedelic Rock. When Jim left for France with his L.A Woman by his side in the Indian Summer of 1971, no one could possibly have guessed he would Break On Through to the Other Side at the End of the Night in his Morrison Hotel room in Paris, after returning from a Moonlight Drive. Only earlier that day, he'd been cruising down The Soft Parade of Paris storefronts with his Wild Child L.A. girlfriend, while Waiting for the Sun to go down on the Champs de Elysee. When fans and fellow band members of The Doors heard the shocking news that Jim Morrison had died,  An American Prayer was said for him around the world in the Strange Days that followed. That wasn't The End for The Doors though, because events have now come Full Circle. The legacy of The Doors music lives on forever, and as you'll hear in the fabulous concert below,  Other Voices have carried the timeless music of Jim Morrison & The Doors well into the 21st century. So what are we waiting for..... The time to hesitate is through, no time to wallow in the mire, so come on baby, Light My FireSmile  Heart
 
The Doors of the 21st Century: L.A. Woman Live - 2004 (featuring original members of The Doors: Ray Manzarek & Robby Krieger with Ian Astbury as Jim Morrison!)
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote GuruCan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2024 at 17:23
The song by The Doors that could have helped shape the sound of early Krautrock bands is The End. It was a very popular song among odd fellows in Europe at the time and had the feeling that perfectly corresponded to what krautrock is all about. The End fuses a haunting ambiance, including instrumental elements occupying a large part of the track that is over 11 minutes in total. The track's composition reflects the frequent focus of krautrock musicians on mood and texture rather than the conventional structure of a song.
While it doesn't fall into the electronic category, the rhythmic backbone of Ray Manzarek's keyboards and John Densmore's drumming in The End provides a hypnotic groove, and the cadence they form has a rhythm that is krautrock's repetitive beats off the set; also, it includes guitar riffs that are drenched in reverb, making it even more interesting for krautrockers. The lyrics of Morrison, which delve deep into themes of existentialism and darkness, perfectly re-echo with the often somber nature characteristic of krautrock music.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valdez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2024 at 12:13
Often overlooked but American 1966... Grace Slick / Great Society. Not just White Rabbit, but all of her stuff back then.
https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/sleepers-2024

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2024 at 10:03
Originally posted by GuruCan GuruCan wrote:

Lothar and the Hand People were a Denver psychedelic rock band whose music spread into broad, eclectic sonic territories back in the 1960s. 
...

Hi,

Nice to find even more stuff ... although, again, a lot of what they did was more song/radio oriented, which is not exactly what the idea was for the future, which was extend the pieces of music into a "trip".

Good job. however, I'm not exactly sure that these would even come close to influence the German scene at all ... mainly because in those days, the LP's that had all the "foreign" music were IMPORTS, and only available in a few specialty stores (in my case Moby Disk in Van Nuys and the Tower on the Strip, and The Warehouse in Westwood) ... and they were expansive ... already in those days each import was about $12/$15 dollars each.  

The chances of us learning about "krautrock" were slim, since Rolling Stone was not about music, and the USA lacked a good periodical that actually reported about music ... thus, even the things you are bringing along, are far out ... and just shows how much RS really missed the boat. Europe had a much wider and broader appreciation for the arts, and still does, despite the American/English commercialism thing, but the Internet, has opened it all up, and while it is still controlled by the corporate folks, it's control mechanisms are failing as so much more is found ... witness your postings. Excellent stuff!

SIDE NOTE:
On our trips to these record stores we usually made a stop at a newspaper/magazines small store in downtown LA and often got a Melody Maker, but sadly, it was only an issue every couple of months, if that and at that time (1972 start more or less), it had a lot of adverts by many bands, and the European bands were listed as well ... ex: I bought Terje Rypdal and AshRa Tempel off an advert for a concert of theirs in London. And for me, that was much more psychedelic and trippy than the American stuff. We read in MM about the scene in Germany at the time, although a couple of magazines in America discussed the European scenes a lot ... EUROCK is massive in this area, and so was GIBRALTAR ... for which I wrote a couple of things.

The EUROCK book is important for many readers of this subject and topic ... and it is a complete show of all their issues for many years, with some amazing and far out things ... but, sadly, they will not get much credit, and I'm not sure that Archie Patterson wants to be "known" ... but he had a large hand in the bringing in of IMPORTS to America, though for me they were too expansive. He was also the vendor that had the specialty Klaus Schulze's series of Works (both of them) exclusively for many years, and also the same for AshRa Tempel, I think. It took over 10/15 years before all that stuff from KS was released properly, btw!

END SIDE NOTE

But, again, the differences are amazing ... the German thing was totally against the commercial thing,  specially schlagger which is made fun of left and right, and nailed by Guru Guru in their 4th album, the one piece that us prog'reek'rs will not listen to get a better idea of what music did in Germany and how it helped bring about things, like the wall coming down several years LATER.

But psychedelia did well in America on the radio, though it didn't last very long. But there were some excellent things ... I had too much to dream last night ... was tops. The Blues Magoos did very well also. Strawberry Alarm Clock also did well ... but again, all of them were pop songs that would last a few weeks and then die out for something else. 

Just a few off the top of my head ... fun stuff, but I think the idea got to Germany, but that was about it ... as what became "krautrock" was already being done on the stage and in film, with massive improvisations and work, which was the main element in the early 'krautrock" music ... and that was something that the American scene did not have because there was no audience for it ... except the Grateful Dead ... their bootlegs saved it all and a slew of long things were heard ... which radio (in America) worked hard to remove and delete a lot. And to this day, the band that "made" the biggest mark of all of them in America, is not accepted and understood, or appreciated ... for the many things they did to the whole thing ... and their fun stuff in Eugene for many years (drum circles all night long with their drummers!!!) as well ... something that none of the top this or that in progressive can ever touch and do!


Edited by moshkito - December 09 2024 at 10:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote GuruCan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2024 at 08:46
Lothar and the Hand People were a Denver psychedelic rock band whose music spread into broad, eclectic sonic territories back in the 1960s. They were all about that cosmic vibe, blending innovative instruments like the theremin and Moog modular synthesiser into music that set them apart in the scene. Their experimental approach resonated with the counterculture movement of the time, not only in America but also with artists from across the pond who felt their influence.
As it stands, it is possible that the group's inventive approach, pioneering electronic instruments for composition and performance, is what contributed to the crazily emerging Krautrock sound during the late 60s and early 70s. Krautrock bands like Kraftwerk and Guru Guru also explored this sonic territory as they popularised a bit of Lothar's previous blend of psychedelia and electronic music and cosmos-aligning themes.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2024 at 05:50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2024 at 02:53
Originally posted by GuruCan GuruCan wrote:

The 13th Floor Elevators were an iconic garage band from Texas that played a pivotal role in shaping psychedelic rock, thanks to their innovative use of the ‘electric jug’ and their focus on creating an immersive vibe rather than just sticking to catchy melodies. Their mind-bending, philosophy-infused lyrics add another layer of complexity that really makes you think. The 13th Floor Elevators might even be considered early U.S. predecessors of the Krautrock movement due to the groundbreaking sonic explorations they undertook.

THE 13TH FLOOR ELEVATORS    The Psychedelic Sounds of the 13th Floor Elevators - released in October 1966 - was one of the earliest Psychedelic Rock albums, preceded only by Jefferson Airplane who took flight with their first album just two months earlier. The 13th Floor Elevators WERE the first band to describe their music as Psychedelic Rock though. The name of the band from Austin Texas derives from the fact that many skyscrapers in the United States don't have a 13th floor because it's thought to be unlucky. It could be entirely coincidental, but "M" (for marijuana) is also the 13th letter of the alphabet. Staying on the subject of high-rise buildings, and why not, the 68th floor of Trump Tower in New York City is actually 58 stories high, partly due to the five story glass atrium, but mainly because not only is there no 13th floor in Trump Tower, but there's no 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th or 12th floor either, making the building seem ten stories higher than it really is. That's a tall story if ever there was one. Smile

 5 stars 1966: 13th Floor Elevators - The Psychedelic Sounds of the 13th Floor Elevators - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLiN-7mukU_RHffmSQiUY-wrIPJJu5Ppzn
 4 stars 1967: 13th Floor Elevators - Easter Everywhere - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lcWRl-XU4UIQebKkY79bJZrAeGzfJ-CTs
 2 stars 1968: 13th Floor Elevators - 13th Floor Elevators Live - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lH6LxLZSSGvJQRgJLii9bOTvViyMDArA0
 3 stars 1969: 13th Floor Elevators - Bull of the Woods - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mngSr0KwETYvFZOqsJtTX9SXIe31AV2EU
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2024 at 01:57
Originally posted by GuruCan GuruCan wrote:

The 13th Floor Elevators were an iconic garage band from Texas that played a pivotal role in shaping psychedelic rock, thanks to their innovative use of the ‘electric jug’ and their focus on creating an immersive vibe rather than just sticking to catchy melodies.
...

Hi,
 
Nice stuff, although, sadly, it was mostly short cuts, as if wanting to look for more radio, which was vital at the time. 

I, sort of ... always thought of the psychedelia and krautrock as a special thing that broke apart the limits of "songs", by having material that was extended, and took us on a "trip", something that a song based band would not exactly be able to do very well, I don't think. In this sense, the European stuff was more classically minded, whereas this particular version was more "radio" minded, so to speak. On the 2nd album they did have a couple of longer pieces, but I had the thought, while listening, that they were not suited for extended material ... so it seemed.

Nice to see things "found" in America, since so much of it was not open because of the radio controls at the time, remembering that most radio stations were owned by the same folks that owned the movie studios, and this is where FM broke the mold ... most of it, at the start, was completely independent, and this was what helped all kinds of new music come alive in the later side of the 60's, which is what brought -- eventually -- what we consider "progressive" music.

I think there were others, and in the midwest, the music scene was very much alive ... and they got bigger and better with the new FM radio stations, that allowed for their material to be longer and not just a 3 minute song for the AM radio thing of before.

I always thought that the Fillmore and Avalon, were more for "tripping", than a bunch of "songs" which, would appear to make bands like this not be as valuable and important. One look at the Monterey thing, and then the following stuff ... and the music is already following longer examples, than simply 2 or 3 minutes.

Interesting time, but the differences are there. As I mentioned before, at least in Europe there was an artistic appreciation for things, and "krautrock" was not just a music thing at all ... it was also alive in theater, and film, and literature ... something that we seem to not like to look at ... whereas in America, the media did not exactly look at a lot of these things as important, and it took a few films, and then some, to help make it all more visible, where otherwise it might have been hidden ... for its politics ... but in the end, it was doomed to be another "Easy Rider" ... blown apart in the end ... that's the media in those days, and still to this day, that time is not given the artistic appreciation that it rightly deserves ... your addition to this thread is fantastic, and thank you.


Edited by moshkito - December 09 2024 at 01:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote GuruCan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 08 2024 at 23:21
The 13th Floor Elevators were an iconic garage band from Texas that played a pivotal role in shaping psychedelic rock, thanks to their innovative use of the ‘electric jug’ and their focus on creating an immersive vibe rather than just sticking to catchy melodies. Their mind-bending, philosophy-infused lyrics add another layer of complexity that really makes you think. The 13th Floor Elevators might even be considered early U.S. predecessors of the Krautrock movement due to the groundbreaking sonic explorations they undertook.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 08 2024 at 07:25
Originally posted by Starshiper Starshiper wrote:

...
 driving, jazz-rock numbers full of intricate instrumental lines that remind me a bit of the Grateful Dead's live psychedelic jams.
...

Hi,

My feeling is that PA does not seem to like the meandering and slower material in its musical development. And, of course, the GD is too good on that, and not interested in the commercial/format kind of music out there that we see in the top lists here.

Thus, the idea that instrumental lines, that often border on improvisation and experimentation, is something that the "idea" of "progressive" music, or "progrock" can not accept, and thus, a site like PA, will end up leaving behind a band that influenced so many folks ... 

There is something very strange and maybe even weird in Holger's comments quoted here ... he is appreciating the idea/fact that the VU was not "musically driven", but in many ways more taken by the moment, and free forms. The GD, were not musically "driven" in the sense that you would not have designed or created a lot of their LIVE moments on stage at all ... and it is strange that Holger will say that about the music not being academic minded (designed and composed), when their own group, other than Damo, were some of the best educated folks musically in Germany! Only the folks surrounded around Peter Michael Hamel, probably had more education.

The GD, was not something that could be defined in any academic sense ... and seeing DD do their pieces, you can hear him appreciating a lot of moments in their music ... that are not something that is "standard" in most rock music at all. In fact, most of the rock notables with some education, could be said to have quit school ... RW, KE and many others ... who figured out quickly enough that bands really needed a good keyboard player, not just one household organ in the mix.

It's weird to consider some of the longer instrumental pieces as psychedelic or whatever other designation ... I suppose that the 2 long cuts from TAGO MAGO would fit that description, but I don't think that the GD has anything that fits in that area at all ... the GD, in my book, was not, a total free form, who cares, experimental outfit, as CAN was in their earlier days, even taking on a member that did not do "music" at all ... and were able to make some outstanding material with it ... I think the mix worked well at first, until it was over, and nothing new could be made, and CAN probably felt that they were done screwing around in the studio ... and magically come up with long pieces from over 20 hours of tapes, per Holger. I don't think that the GD, EVER went on stage thinking that this time ... one piece ... was going to go on for 40 minutes! 

In essence, for websites like PA, and song minded folks in the last 20/30 years, are not ear-tuned to improvisation and experimentation ... even when one band out of the blue shows up and everyone thinks they are as good as sliced bread. All of a sudden, the odd album/band is listed, but next to the 10 things before it and 10 pieces behind it ... what the fudge is that doing here?

This is the reason why I would like to see the definition of "progressive" and then "progrock" cleaned up ... so many of the elements that came with it, are also included ... weird to see "improvisation" left behind, when in the late 60's it was the thing to do ... other than pop music, of course, that AM radio thought was pompous, and too fat of itself, on the FM dial. Weirder yet is how much improvisation was done at the Fillmore in the early days, and how little of it, we have heard ... most of it, was killed off by the record industry ... and it is strange/weird that there are no recordings of these things ... and guess where the GD fans were so valuable? The bootlegs had it all ... that had been hidden and destroyed everywhere else. And it survived ... to the point that we think it didn't happen at all, and in the GD ... we fell asleep!

One can only hope that time brings on folks that are more acquainted with music, and its history, not a really poor definition of "progressive" being considered important ... and actually ignoring so much of the music out there and the very folks plying it that deserve the credit, and will never get it ... ohh my ... the life of an artist ... add insult to injury ... why not ... another dead dog! Wink A la Salvador Dali, too! Tongue


Edited by moshkito - December 08 2024 at 16:43
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote GuruCan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 08 2024 at 06:28
Originally posted by Starshiper Starshiper wrote:

One of those U.S. artists that certainly influenced the Krautrock movement is also Sun Ra, although he wasn't psychedelic rock but a cosmic jazz genius. Here is a 27-minute-long title track from Sun Ra and his Arkestra's 1966 album "The Magic City."

Absolutely! Even though Sun Ra and krautrock bands like Can come from different musical backgrounds—jazz and rock, respectively—the adventurous vibe in tracks like Aumgn really resonates with the spirit of Sun Ra's spacey yet avant-garde sound!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote Starshiper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 08 2024 at 06:08
Originally posted by GuruCan GuruCan wrote:

Originally posted by Starshiper Starshiper wrote:

Regarding the early 70s krautrock stuff that was obviously influenced by the psychedelic rock bands from the West Coast music scene, I would like to highlight "Krokodil Session, Part 1" and "Part 2" from the album "An Invisible World Revealed" by Swiss krautrock band Krokodil from 1971, which are particularly enjoyable, driving, jazz-rock numbers full of intricate instrumental lines that remind me a bit of the Grateful Dead's live psychedelic jams.





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One of those U.S. artists that certainly influenced the Krautrock movement is also Sun Ra, although he wasn't psychedelic rock but a cosmic jazz genius. Here is a 27-minute-long title track from Sun Ra and his Arkestra's 1966 album "The Magic City."

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