THE COSMIC JOKERS      They're cosmic! Tripping the light fantastic with one of the best-known Krautrock supergroups, which included such notable members as Klaus Schulze and Manuel Goettsching (Ash Ra Tempel) and with five cosmic albums to their name. The five albums were assembled and released all in one incredible year by label boss "The Kaiser" without the performers' knowledge - and that's no joke! 

I stand by both, and am awfully fond of them, and their material, which has stood out time very well ... with perhaps one issue ... the German version is more appreciated, than the American version that went on to be trashed by the media, and eventually thought to not be important, and overly infatuated with themselves ... probably (my thought) because a lot of their material was more "direct" in terms of politics, which created a lot of friction and problems in the media ... at the very least, in Europe (maybe not England ... ) there was a much wider respect for the arts, and music was accepted a lot more, specially when it started to sell, and the German companies stopped asking for schlagger and ignore the money that could be made from their own groups ... however, by the time that took place, it was already slimmed down to a smaller list of groups.

The hatred, and the media attention to the "psychedelia" days in America, were really hard to deal with, and by the time that Altamont came down, the majority of the scene was going down hill, with the Jefferson Airplane bloodied on the stage ... and the media just about said ... well deserved ... and the bad part of it all is probably that America did not have a real publication to help the music, not to mention that what took place in the West Coast was laughed at and ignored in the East Coast, and vice versa, and then you had to deal with Nashville, completely separate, and all of a sudden the southern bands come up big time. 

America, showed itself to be ... 4 different countries, at least, and this made it really tough all around ... but the lack of a real publication that was more serious about the music, and Rolling Stone in those days was not helpful and I still guess that there was some serious issues in publication, but their attention to the sleazy side of all things ... hurt it all, even worse.

"The Cosmic Jokers" is a sad story in some ways, but the worst part of it, is that because of the rip offs, none of it, if any, was thought to have valuable material ... and there were a lot of really fine things in it, that were always trashed and none of the musicians ever saw any money from them ... afaik ... which is really sad, but the romantic side of the whole thing had created some really far out things, even if some of them were a bit off key and weird. "Planeten Sit-In" is a fine album and some of the material was far out. The actual album "The Cosmic Jokers" was really good, and one side of it is an improvisation that is on par with AD2's MM Soundtrack from "Dance of the Lemmings" .... the touch and feel of the material was outstanding, and never has it been recognized ... as musically valid, or valued.

And thanks PP ... for the listing. Sadly, putting together a listing for the Americans, would be much more difficult, with the harsh divisions across the USA. And even worse, was the attention some bands got for trashing Neil Young, at a time, when the media thought all youngsters and students were trash ... and the music was meaningless ... which was something that was sort of forgotten and left behind, by the time FM radio hit the big stage going into 1972 and 1973 ... at least in the West Coast ... but still the "control" was in place of the media, as was evident as to what happened in LA a few years later ... that took a major station down over night and brought it back in the morning, on tape, and "new age" music. The lack of a music periodical to put down the folks that did such a massive thing, was never seen or bothered with ... by that time, RS was more interested in the "stars" and didn't care about the music!

The one band, that never quit, and continued, is the "soul" of the whole thing, even if a lot of folks don't specially like it, but they continued for many more years, and today, are more appreciated that ever, and still sell ... and one could say that it was their bootlegs, most of which came from their sound board with the band's blessing ... that kept them alive and appreciated. 

To this day, American music will not bother appreciating The Grateful Dead and its massive road and history. They DID, and WERE ... the very soul of that whole psychedelia thing and West Coast. And, as sad as this sounds, they never stopped playing!

Today, though, I'm not sure a definitive write up can be put together ... with the Internet as divisive as ever, and all over the place, with nothing to fight for, or appreciate, so it seems, except the almighty number one and the commercial standard.

So hard, and sad to write all this ... I wish I had studied the West Coast better, but it feels like the whole thing is so fractured, as to leave it no choice but to fall off and be ignored. Seeing this article, and desire ... is NICE, and all I can say is THANKS.

Hi,

It's a rather difficult thought and idea ... but there is one thing that stands out in it, and you can see it on many live shows from the Grateful Dead. They take their time, and evolve the details in the music, very well, and sometimes, this is slow, and deliberate, but one is never going to find a moment where you can sit down and say that Bob Weir or Jerry Garcia just noodling around ... and wasting time ... they are doing something that classical music does, and that is ... allow the music to LIVE on its own, instead of being in a hurry to create a bridge, or switch to a solo, or a format that is used in commercial pop music ... which is something that the GD can NEVER be accused of, and that is one of the issues with a lot of folks, TODAY, not liking the GD ... besides the fact that the GD couldn't careless about folks that don't like them ... the history shows an incredible talent, and musicianship (see the Daily Doug do some of their things!!!) that the majority of bands that are listed in a top something or other do not exactly have, other than some more cookie cutting forms and ideas, with the solo at exactly the same place in 4 of the 5 pieces in their album! You won't EVER see that in the GD ... 

My thoughts are that the GD took their time, and great music relies on the ability of it to spread out and live and come around complete ... an idea that many prog-rock folks think can only be done with a format and "idea", that has very little to do with music itself in many hands! 

And "taking their time" is the worst thing in America and all commercial music ... and it is not a secret anywhere, when after almost 60 years, we STILL can only find listings for bands that do "cuts" and "singles" and (in general) their album is not about anything ... except ... we can really only think of it as "pop musik".

And this is the area that both psychedelia and krautrock wanted to get away from ... completely. In reality, it would/could only succeed in Europe, where music is better appreciated than another dollar for the commercial departments in America ... with one really bad side ... the folks that kiss up to the dollar making fun of the folks that are into the music, not the commercial side of it ... and this is the greatest difference about the GD, that will never be accepted by anyone, or any site, where the intent is the idea of commercialism, not the music itself!

While the Velvet Underground wasn't a psychedelic band but an experimental/art rock group with just a hint of psychedelia here and there, this interview with Holger Czukay would definitely be a very interesting read!

Regarding the early 70s krautrock stuff that was obviously influenced by the psychedelic rock bands from the West Coast music scene, I would like to highlight "Krokodil Session, Part 1" and "Part 2" from the album "An Invisible World Revealed" by Swiss krautrock band Krokodil from 1971, which are particularly enjoyable, driving, jazz-rock numbers full of intricate instrumental lines that remind me a bit of the Grateful Dead's live psychedelic jams.

Hi,

My feeling is that PA does not seem to like the meandering and slower material in its musical development. And, of course, the GD is too good on that, and not interested in the commercial/format kind of music out there that we see in the top lists here.

Thus, the idea that instrumental lines, that often border on improvisation and experimentation, is something that the "idea" of "progressive" music, or "progrock" can not accept, and thus, a site like PA, will end up leaving behind a band that influenced so many folks ... 

There is something very strange and maybe even weird in Holger's comments quoted here ... he is appreciating the idea/fact that the VU was not "musically driven", but in many ways more taken by the moment, and free forms. The GD, were not musically "driven" in the sense that you would not have designed or created a lot of their LIVE moments on stage at all ... and it is strange that Holger will say that about the music not being academic minded (designed and composed), when their own group, other than Damo, were some of the best educated folks musically in Germany! Only the folks surrounded around Peter Michael Hamel, probably had more education.

The GD, was not something that could be defined in any academic sense ... and seeing DD do their pieces, you can hear him appreciating a lot of moments in their music ... that are not something that is "standard" in most rock music at all. In fact, most of the rock notables with some education, could be said to have quit school ... RW, KE and many others ... who figured out quickly enough that bands really needed a good keyboard player, not just one household organ in the mix.

It's weird to consider some of the longer instrumental pieces as psychedelic or whatever other designation ... I suppose that the 2 long cuts from TAGO MAGO would fit that description, but I don't think that the GD has anything that fits in that area at all ... the GD, in my book, was not, a total free form, who cares, experimental outfit, as CAN was in their earlier days, even taking on a member that did not do "music" at all ... and were able to make some outstanding material with it ... I think the mix worked well at first, until it was over, and nothing new could be made, and CAN probably felt that they were done screwing around in the studio ... and magically come up with long pieces from over 20 hours of tapes, per Holger. I don't think that the GD, EVER went on stage thinking that this time ... one piece ... was going to go on for 40 minutes! 

In essence, for websites like PA, and song minded folks in the last 20/30 years, are not ear-tuned to improvisation and experimentation ... even when one band out of the blue shows up and everyone thinks they are as good as sliced bread. All of a sudden, the odd album/band is listed, but next to the 10 things before it and 10 pieces behind it ... what the fudge is that doing here?

This is the reason why I would like to see the definition of "progressive" and then "progrock" cleaned up ... so many of the elements that came with it, are also included ... weird to see "improvisation" left behind, when in the late 60's it was the thing to do ... other than pop music, of course, that AM radio thought was pompous, and too fat of itself, on the FM dial. Weirder yet is how much improvisation was done at the Fillmore in the early days, and how little of it, we have heard ... most of it, was killed off by the record industry ... and it is strange/weird that there are no recordings of these things ... and guess where the GD fans were so valuable? The bootlegs had it all ... that had been hidden and destroyed everywhere else. And it survived ... to the point that we think it didn't happen at all, and in the GD ... we fell asleep!

One can only hope that time brings on folks that are more acquainted with music, and its history, not a really poor definition of "progressive" being considered important ... and actually ignoring so much of the music out there and the very folks plying it that deserve the credit, and will never get it ... ohh my ... the life of an artist ... add insult to injury ... why not ... another dead dog!  A la Salvador Dali, too! 

The 13th Floor Elevators were an iconic garage band from Texas that played a pivotal role in shaping psychedelic rock, thanks to their innovative use of the ‘electric jug’ and their focus on creating an immersive vibe rather than just sticking to catchy melodies. Their mind-bending, philosophy-infused lyrics add another layer of complexity that really makes you think. The 13th Floor Elevators might even be considered early U.S. predecessors of the Krautrock movement due to the groundbreaking sonic explorations they undertook.

Hi,
 

As it stands, it is possible that the group's inventive approach, pioneering electronic instruments for composition and performance, is what contributed to the crazily emerging Krautrock sound during the late 60s and early 70s. Krautrock bands like Kraftwerk and Guru Guru also explored this sonic territory as they popularised a bit of Lothar's previous blend of psychedelia and electronic music and cosmos-aligning themes.

Hi,

Nice to find even more stuff ... although, again, a lot of what they did was more song/radio oriented, which is not exactly what the idea was for the future, which was extend the pieces of music into a "trip".

Good job. however, I'm not exactly sure that these would even come close to influence the German scene at all ... mainly because in those days, the LP's that had all the "foreign" music were IMPORTS, and only available in a few specialty stores (in my case Moby Disk in Van Nuys and the Tower on the Strip, and The Warehouse in Westwood) ... and they were expansive ... already in those days each import was about $12/$15 dollars each.  

The chances of us learning about "krautrock" were slim, since Rolling Stone was not about music, and the USA lacked a good periodical that actually reported about music ... thus, even the things you are bringing along, are far out ... and just shows how much RS really missed the boat. Europe had a much wider and broader appreciation for the arts, and still does, despite the American/English commercialism thing, but the Internet, has opened it all up, and while it is still controlled by the corporate folks, it's control mechanisms are failing as so much more is found ... witness your postings. Excellent stuff!

SIDE NOTE:

On our trips to these record stores we usually made a stop at a newspaper/magazines small store in downtown LA and often got a Melody Maker, but sadly, it was only an issue every couple of months, if that and at that time (1972 start more or less), it had a lot of adverts by many bands, and the European bands were listed as well ... ex: I bought Terje Rypdal and AshRa Tempel off an advert for a concert of theirs in London. And for me, that was much more psychedelic and trippy than the American stuff. We read in MM about the scene in Germany at the time, although a couple of magazines in America discussed the European scenes a lot ... EUROCK is massive in this area, and so was GIBRALTAR ... for which I wrote a couple of things.

The EUROCK book is important for many readers of this subject and topic ... and it is a complete show of all their issues for many years, with some amazing and far out things ... but, sadly, they will not get much credit, and I'm not sure that Archie Patterson wants to be "known" ... but he had a large hand in the bringing in of IMPORTS to America, though for me they were too expansive. He was also the vendor that had the specialty Klaus Schulze's series of Works (both of them) exclusively for many years, and also the same for AshRa Tempel, I think. It took over 10/15 years before all that stuff from KS was released properly, btw!

END SIDE NOTE

But, again, the differences are amazing ... the German thing was totally against the commercial thing,  specially schlagger which is made fun of left and right, and nailed by Guru Guru in their 4th album, the one piece that us prog'reek'rs will not listen to get a better idea of what music did in Germany and how it helped bring about things, like the wall coming down several years LATER.

But psychedelia did well in America on the radio, though it didn't last very long. But there were some excellent things ... I had too much to dream last night ... was tops. The Blues Magoos did very well also. Strawberry Alarm Clock also did well ... but again, all of them were pop songs that would last a few weeks and then die out for something else. 

Just a few off the top of my head ... fun stuff, but I think the idea got to Germany, but that was about it ... as what became "krautrock" was already being done on the stage and in film, with massive improvisations and work, which was the main element in the early 'krautrock" music ... and that was something that the American scene did not have because there was no audience for it ... except the Grateful Dead ... their bootlegs saved it all and a slew of long things were heard ... which radio (in America) worked hard to remove and delete a lot. And to this day, the band that "made" the biggest mark of all of them in America, is not accepted and understood, or appreciated ... for the many things they did to the whole thing ... and their fun stuff in Eugene for many years (drum circles all night long with their drummers!!!) as well ... something that none of the top this or that in progressive can ever touch and do!

While it doesn't fall into the electronic category, the rhythmic backbone of Ray Manzarek's keyboards and John Densmore's drumming in The End provides a hypnotic groove, and the cadence they form has a rhythm that is krautrock's repetitive beats off the set; also, it includes guitar riffs that are drenched in reverb, making it even more interesting for krautrockers. The lyrics of Morrison, which delve deep into themes of existentialism and darkness, perfectly re-echo with the often somber nature characteristic of krautrock music.

 

The Doors of the 21st Century: L.A. Woman Live - 2004 (featuring original members of The Doors: Ray Manzarek & Robby Krieger with Ian Astbury as Jim Morrison!)

 

Beaver and Krause's albums from the late 60s, as well as their works for film scores—e.g., "Rosemary's Baby" from 1968, directed by Roman Polanski—created a strong driving force in the development of electronic music in Europe, especially in West Germany. Beaver and Krause actually became pioneers of electronic kosmische Musik, leaving their heavy mark on the genre as their "cosmic"—not without a dash of psychedelia—use of synthesizers not only chimed with the counterculture movement; it directly paved the way for influential Krautrock bands such as Cluster and Kraftwerk, to name a few.

Shops like "Plattenladen" in Munich were built to cater to tastes from eclectic to trendy, thus further enriching the colourful music scene of West Germany. Such record stores were instrumental in determining the development of West German popular music culture. Besides the records of pop-rock stars, they offered access to acts of esoteric genres that were hardly widely known. This accessibility helped foster a generation of musicians who would go on to influence both national and international music scenes.

Hi,

WOW ... FAR OUT ... that is the first time I have heard something "direct" about these things, and in this case the record stores. Not too surprised, since The Tower on the Strip was famous for a lot of releases, and Moby Disk lasted for a lot longer than most record stores doing what they did best ... but it makes sense that some of these stores stood out and helped things ... though this is the first time I have heard about it "directly".

GuruCan wrote: ... Most of these stores offered live performances as well. Record stores, in West Germany, were very essential organs of an emerging youth culture, which embraced all new forms of music.  ...

This is something that, did not happen in the LA area as far as I am aware of it ... but it is far out that these things were taking place. Santa Barbara did have a record store that housed Guy Guden and the Space Pirate stuff, for a few years, and the nice thing was you walked in and you were immediately listening to something else from Europe ... that part was cool. The live side of it, was kinda unknown, and I never really saw it, although I did get to see a few things early ... but at least some record stores were not exactly afraid of showing some imports though they were very few, but as soon as the American release was there at least one store in Santa Barbara played it ... (Billingsgate was an important label here) ... and Epitath, Lucifer's Friend, Frumpy, Scorpions (first album) and Neu ... were released here and to my knowledge Neu was the big seller, and later Scorpions, of course, but that was not an "import" any more as it had gotten fairly big a year or two later.

GuruCan wrote: ... record stores were instrumental in determining the development of West German popular music culture. Besides the records of pop-rock stars, they offered access to acts of esoteric genres that were hardly wider known. This accessibility helped foster a generation of musicians who would go on to influence both national and international music scenes.

The strange part of all this is that the book "Future Days" which is fairly good about the whole "krautrock" scene, at least it explains the many different areas, does not mention (that I can remember) the record stores, or even the performance side of it, except that ... the bands existed! It would be weird, for me, to find that none of these ever performed, when the whole "krautrock" thing was about performance, a lot more than anything else.

As I mentioned a long time ago ... a lot of this needs to be written down and compiled properly ... I am aware of theater and film, and often say silly things like there is no difference between Damo and Klaus Kinski, which some folks here do not like ... I always get the feeling they don't like me getting away/out of the theme "progressive" and get the audience fractured even more ... it feels like a religion based on bad translations already ... that are considered a sort of "law".

I have to find/read (AGAIN) the early issues of EUROCK because it does tackle a lot of the performance side of krautrock in the early days, which I have to admit, I did not exactly pay attention as much as otherwise ... I'll add to this as soon as possible ... but your assist here is MASSIVE and I hope that we can catalog it ... sure we would like to see PA help in this area.

Another U.S. band that blends psychedelia with an experimental rock attitude, thus reminiscent of the early Krautrock movement, is Quill from Boston. Quill's music combined odd sounds, often almost atonal scales, with social commentary, weird poetry, and irony. They were quite the buzz in New England, New York, and the mid-Atlantic states in the late 1960s. In 1969, they took the stage at Woodstock, but unfortunately, due to some technical hiccups, their stellar performance wasn't fully captured and didn't make it into the festival's film. Quill shared a similar innovative spirit with early Can, merging rock with avant-garde influences and a sense of unrestrained artistic freedom. They dropped one self-titled album in early 1970 and disbanded late in the spring of the same year.

Hi,

And they have been a part of my collection for at least 50 years, and were one of the first things I picked up, after the sound effects from various movies that used the electronics to create a mood and a soundtrack ... we have not quite considered that, and the idea, that it was some of those films that considered the music "foreign" and "outer space" (due to the images!!!) ... that became an idea for me. 

Beaver and Krause changed that idea into what is known as "here and now" ... as opposed to some idea that the music was foreign, and to me, that was an important thought, or concept. 

I have never, really considered one better/stronger than the others ... or that one inspired the other kind of thing ... they both came up at pretty much the same time, it was just like the idea/thought that someone wrote that the electronics in those days in America had two feelings ... the east coast and the west coast and that one was more free form and less composed than the other. It was a rather interesting thought in my mind since I tend to not look at the arts as one or the other, since it can easily be both and then become something else.

I do think, believe, that Europe made room for the music in it ... the USA did not, and electronics remained in the background, until some keyboard players were then mixing things really well, and it changed a lot of mechanics going forward, but I did not think that one was influencing the other as much as we might consider, since the opening/design of it, was very different, and the "krautrock" one was more performance oriented than the American version that was considered a freak many times, and weird. I never felt of any of the American artists as such at all ... which helped my being able to get into them so early ... and appreciate it a lot, as I do.