Steve Wilson, recent interview...

Grumpyprogfan wrote: Lewian wrote: Grumpyprogfan wrote: <span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;">Yes. For me, music has to have rhythm, melody, and harmony. Acepella is only one out of three.</span> Music has to have sound, sound, and sound. That's more than enough. If only sound - then a jet taking off is music. Hearing your neighbors fight is music. A percussion jam is music or you dog barking is music. Nonsense.

A lot of metal doesn't have harmony, free jazz may not have some of these components either on top of the aforementioned ambient and electronic music. I don't think music needs to fall into any sort of narrow black and white definition, especially not one coined by Neanderthal in Chief: Ben Shapiro 

Edited by dougmcauliffe - March 10 2021 at 11:57

^^ Yeah see Gangster Rap is where I start enjoying hip hop. I think Hip Hop from the last 10 years at least for me is the peak of the genre, they're able to push to boundaries of production value to totally uncharted territories and I love some of the conceptual works of albums like To Pimp a Butterfly, IGOR and Atrocity Exhibition.

Edited by dougmcauliffe - March 10 2021 at 11:59

Necrotica wrote: The thing that amuses me the most is that his new poppier stuff is LESS commercially successful than his older records. The Incident got all the way to 25 on the Billboard chart - quite an achievement for a prog artist - and yet The Future Bites got all the down to 193 on the same chart. What it proves to me is the exact same thing I said when I reviewed TFB, which is that it's not a matter of Wilson being poppy but rather making pop that's not very good. Albums like Stupid Dream, Lightbulb Sun, and Deadwing had plenty of songs that could have found airplay and still retained Wilson's prog cred at the same time; he used to be great at that balance. Hell, I once heard Time Flies in downtown Disneyland! I think his newest direction is just a bit too desperate; all the Times Square ads, the TikTok promotions, the flood of critic scores... he's struggling too much with something that used to be so effortless for him.

^ Nah don't worry I know you're cool, but I don't agree with the Ben Shapiro assessment of what makes something music. Also, Acapella music can still have rhythm and I mean, a lot of ambient and electronic music doesn't have those things, they rely more on Texture and Timbre which I think are both important components as well.

rogerthat wrote: dougmcauliffe wrote: Glad this thread has turned into old men terrified of rap music because they say bad words in their big scary one size fits all definition of hip hop they have in their heads Would you call a classical vocalist singing acapella “not music?” How about Frank Zappa talking fast, one might draw some comparisons to “rapping,” over a xylophone? People who are saying hip hop isn’t music aren’t the ones sitting down with any interest in the Kendrick Lamar’s, MF Dooms, Kanye Wests, Tyler the Creators, Freddie Gibbs and the intricacies behind the production and subject matter within their music. They’re the ones who hear a middle schooler blaring a sh*tty trap banger through their iPhone speaker and assume thats peak hip hop. No actual music fans, like people who use sites like these and keep up with more niche releases, care about the Grammys, even most casual music fans don’t. But between both those parties hip hop is easily one of the most popular genres and believe it or not, chances are, there’s something for you in the fold if you sit down and give it time to sink in and understand the music. But I don’t stand for hearing “hip hop isn’t music” and I hope anybody who says that understands the pretty abysmal look that gives them, intentional or not. I mean integrity of Grammys to keep reggaeton out, wut? The irony is Wilson isn't even using hardcore hip hop on here.  It's just the regular sort of vocal effects you hear in EDM.   Props for naming Tyler the Creator.  Love his Igor album.  People should seriously check it out rather than feeling so threatened by it.  Most of it is actually singing, he doesn't bombard rapping all over it all.  And the production is beautiful.  Like it better than the TransAtl/Dream Theater/side projects production, thank you very much.

dougmcauliffe wrote: Glad this thread has turned into old men terrified of rap music because they say bad words in their big scary one size fits all definition of hip hop they have in their heads Would you call a classical vocalist singing acapella “not music?” How about Frank Zappa talking fast, one might draw some comparisons to “rapping,” over a xylophone? People who are saying hip hop isn’t music aren’t the ones sitting down with any interest in the Kendrick Lamar’s, MF Dooms, Kanye Wests, Tyler the Creators, Freddie Gibbs and the intricacies behind the production and subject matter within their music. They’re the ones who hear a middle schooler blaring a sh*tty trap banger through their iPhone speaker and assume thats peak hip hop. No actual music fans, like people who use sites like these and keep up with more niche releases, care about the Grammys, even most casual music fans don’t. But between both those parties hip hop is easily one of the most popular genres and believe it or not, chances are, there’s something for you in the fold if you sit down and give it time to sink in and understand the music. But I don’t stand for hearing “hip hop isn’t music” and I hope anybody who says that understands the pretty abysmal look that gives them, intentional or not.

Edited by rogerthat - March 10 2021 at 08:36

Glad this thread has turned into old men terrified of rap music because they say bad words in their big scary one size fits all definition of hip hop they have in their heads

Would you call a classical vocalist singing acapella “not music?”

How about Frank Zappa talking fast, one might draw some comparisons to “rapping,” over a xylophone?

People who are saying hip hop isn’t music aren’t the ones sitting down with any interest in the Kendrick Lamar’s, MF Dooms, Kanye Wests, Tyler the Creators, Freddie Gibbs and the intricacies behind the production and subject matter within their music. They’re the ones who hear a middle schooler blaring a sh*tty trap banger through their iPhone speaker and assume thats peak hip hop.

No actual music fans, like people who use sites like these and keep up with more niche releases, care about the Grammys, even most casual music fans don’t. But between both those parties hip hop is easily one of the most popular genres and believe it or not, chances are, there’s something for you in the fold if you sit down and give it time to sink in and understand the music. But I don’t stand for hearing “hip hop isn’t music” and I hope anybody who says that understands the pretty abysmal look that gives them, intentional or not.

Lewian wrote: So he's a "bore" and "having an (interesting) personality is not his strong point"...  so what are your criteria for rating a personality then? I have seen and read loads of less interesting interviews by prog musicians than what he usually has to say, and whose personality entertains you better (except for all the wrong reasons)? And apart from that, he's a musician, so why do you even care whether his personality is "interesting"?