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Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
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Posted: September 26 2013 at 09:37
I think I mentioned this before but a question for all you DT, Iron Maiden, and Rush fans ........has anyone read an interview with any of these bands and what are their opinions about their influences and who they consider to be the 'fathers of prog metal'..?
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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Joined: May 13 2007
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Posted: September 26 2013 at 09:33
Are you on commission from YouTube?
You've posted Metropolis Part 1 twice now - we know what if fking sounds like, and if we didn't we are fking smart enough to go find it ourselves on fking You-fking-Tube. But and However. We're fking Prog fans - we know these fking songs forwards, backwards, sideways and fking-inside-fking-out.
Joined: September 20 2010
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Posted: September 26 2013 at 09:19
tamijo wrote:
Im not sure about any of the "stones" mentioned.
What about Hey Joe or Help, they may as well be seen as that one important piece of Rock music, depends a lot on if you think the Who was IT, or you dont.
Cant claim The Who have become more famous or legendary than Hendrix or Beatles can you. ?
Same goes for KC's debut, it may be important, but is it more important than so many other early albums or songs.
Joined: January 06 2009
Location: Denmark
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Points: 4287
Posted: September 26 2013 at 07:24
Im not sure about any of the "stones" mentioned.
What about Hey Joe or Help, they may as well be seen as that one important piece of Rock music, depends a lot on if you think the Who was IT, or you dont.
Cant claim The Who have become more famous or legendary than Hendrix or Beatles can you. ?
Same goes for KC's debut, it may be important, but is it more important than so many other early albums or songs.
Yes Moody Floyd mm.
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
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Points: 10213
Posted: September 26 2013 at 06:59
Dean wrote:
I see the fine art of sarcasm is completely wasted on you.
Svetonio wrote:
Dean wrote:
(...) Prog Metal was invented by Dream Theater with Metropolis Part 1: The Miracle and The Sleeper.
Brilliant.
Yes, it is brilliant and the first one Progressive Metal epic ever made.
Nobody recorded something like that before DT
No it wasn't. Suite Sister Mary was years earlier and is practically the blue-print for Metropolis Prt:1 - all you need to do is add a trem-picking death metal riff, change the words and take out singing monks.
Well, I know that there's always something that has been done before that one can say, "Hey this is practically done before!" but an album or even one song become the cornerstone for a genre.
So, that cornerstone for Rock is My Generation the song, In The Court of Crimson King the album and title song is the cornerstone for Progressive Rock, Images And Words and Metropolis Part 1: The Miracles And Sleeper is that cornerstone, the landmarkfor Progressive Metal.
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Posted: September 26 2013 at 06:05
I see the fine art of sarcasm is completely wasted on you.
Svetonio wrote:
Dean wrote:
(...) Prog Metal was invented by Dream Theater with Metropolis Part 1: The Miracle and The Sleeper.
Brilliant.
Yes, it is brilliant and the first one Progressive Metal epic ever made.
Nobody recorded something like that before DT
No it wasn't. Suite Sister Mary was years earlier and is practically the blue-print for Metropolis Prt:1 - all you need to do is add a trem-picking death metal riff, change the words and take out singing monks.
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Posted: September 26 2013 at 05:33
Right. So according to a care-less person (and an army of imaginary many others):
Metal was invented by The Who with Boris the Spider, Progressive Rock was invented by King Crimson with In The Court of the Crimson King and Prog Metal was invented by Dream Theater with Metropolis Part 1: The Miracle and The Sleeper.
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Posted: September 26 2013 at 04:03
Svetonio wrote:
Dean wrote:
A landmark is not a birth.
Aha ... then DT's 1989 debut is the birth of Progressive Metal as subgenre of Progressive Rock as well.
No, it wasn't Aha, Morten Harket had nothing to do with the birth of Prog Metal.
There is no distinction between the birth of Progressive Metal as a subgenre of Metal and as a subgenre of Progressive Rock, they are one and the same.
Joined: September 20 2010
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Posted: September 26 2013 at 03:02
^ Yes I know that DT were released their debut in 1989, and that the Images And Words is the second album by DT, but Images And Words is THE landmark for Progressive Metal subgenre as same as ITCOCK is the landmark for Progressive Rock - not Music In A Doll's House from1968.
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Posted: September 26 2013 at 02:43
Svetonio wrote:
Dean wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
The real fathers of Progressive Metal, as an autonomous genre under umbrella of Progressive Rock as well, are DREAM THEATER.
How can Dream Thicket be the fathers when their first album was released after the subgenre had been born?
Actually, Progressive Metal the subgenre is born with this
Actually, it wasn't.
Svetonio wrote:
I think that you confused Speed Metal, as the subgenre of Heavy Metal in 80's, with Progressive Metal what was born in early 90s as subgenreof Progressive Rock. This *metal* in the name of the subgenre doesn't mean Heavy Metal. Same as Symphonic Prog doesn't mean that the LSO were touring with early Genesis.
Well, I'm not confusing early Prog Metal with Speed Metal and I've never seen Fates Warning or Queensr˙che referred to as Speed Metal even for their early albums. The subgenre gained commercial success in the 90s, but was born in the late 80s whether you agree or not. I like the *idea* that Prog Metal was born out of Prog Rock rather than Heavy Metal, but I suspect it is not correct - the bands involved in the beginnings of Prog Metal marketted themselves as Metal bands, not Prog bands and they are associated (even now) more with the Metal scene than the Prog scene.
Joined: September 20 2010
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Posted: September 26 2013 at 02:33
Dean wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
The real fathers of Progressive Metal, as an autonomous genre under umbrella of Progressive Rock as well, are DREAM THEATER.
How can Dream Thicket be the fathers when their first album was released after the subgenre had been born?
Actually, Progressive Metal the subgenre is born with this
I think that you confused Speed Metal, as the subgenre of Heavy Metal in 80's, with Progressive Metal what was born in early 90s as subgenreof Progressive Rock. This *metal* in the name of the subgenre doesn't mean Heavy Metal. Same as Symphonic Prog doesn't mean that the LSO were touring with early Genesis.
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Posted: September 26 2013 at 01:59
progbethyname wrote:
^ paterfamilias...the head of the house...the one in charge....or the shovinistic approach of ' I wear the dam pants in the family.' that's DT for me right now. They are fathers and so many other bands want to be under their roof cause they are a staple in Prog metal for last 10 years by creating some pretty wonderful and modern sounding Prog/metal.
I'd say DT are dads DEAN. ;)
You said it yourself - paterfamilias means head of... not father of... To continue the roman-ecclesiastical train of thought then the pope is the paterfamilias of the catholic church but he is not one of the fathers of the church (or christian fathers) .
In this context "father of" means "progenator".
And, no single band "owns" a genre, least of all Dream Thicket.
I mentioned John Enwistle (rip) as the 'musicians' musician' who was invented "metal" sound bass in 60's. Yeah, as grand grand father, not the father.
The real fathers of Progressive Metal are not Black Sabbath, nor Iron Maiden. I can easily say that I grow up at Iron Maiden's shows. Five times I saw Iron Maiden live in my hometown of Belgrade: 1981 at Belrade's Hippodrome when Iron Maiden was the opening act for ex-Yugoslavian band Bijelo Dugme, then 1984, 1986, 2007 and 2009; lol, here we call them a "serbian band" - that much people love them here. The main reason for that is the fact that they're not Progressive Metal band, although their Somewhere in the Time the album(1986) is conceptual and with those synths guitars & bass on it. Actually, Heavy Metal, so Iron Maiden as Heavy Metal Gods as well and also one of the greatest cock-rock bands in the history of popular music, is quite opposite music genre from Progressive Rock. That's why the hardcore Heavy Metal fans don't like Progressive Metal. I saw that very clear at Tool's concert in Belgrade 2009, and I recall back then in a nearby bar that just after Tool's gig that all the heavy metal kids with shiny Iron Maiden badges at their jackets were commenting on the Tool's gig "this is too avantgarde, this is not metal".
The real fathers of Progressive Metal, as an autonomous genre under umbrella of Progressive Rock as well, are DREAM THEATER.
p.s. As consolation to those Iron Maiden's hardcore fans who try to put the band into progresive music genre where band as Iron Maiden weren't belong:
Belgrade, 1981
Belgrade, 1986
Belgrade, 2007
Belgrade, 2007
Belgrade, 2009
Enjoy!
Mr. Irish bandcamp! Hey. Very cool links as well as history of your Maiden/Belgrade concerts. Love the banner.
I just have one problem....describing Iron Maiden as one of the greatest 'Cock-Rock' bands really doesn't sit well with me lol. I just think you give them an image like those four dorky Jewish-face painters known as Kiss!!
That's a cock rock band. Same goes for a band like Motely Crew.
I just don't fit Maiden's image to be along side the tacky clam side of other rock cliches like Gene freakin Simmons. Lol
I don't know. Call me crazy, but even in the D'anno years did I ever see Maiden look or sound like a cock rock band. Just sayin.'
Very cool post otherwise though! Thanks for the links. :)
But to be clear on my overhyped enthusiasm from my DT buzz craze is that you are right with the whole concept of what a 'father' actually means. I am just thinking that if Prog metal actually started in 1994 DT would be it. They would have to be, but history is history and of course Prog metal has been around a lot longer than 20 years in refined non primordial soup fashion. :)
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The fathers of Prog Metal
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tamijo wrote:
