Neo prog bands, is there a real problem?

Certif1ed wrote: ^I certainly don't hear any boundary pushing on Pure - it's a very run-of-the-mill album to my ears, with nothing new on at all. I fail to hear it as "Neo" or "Prog". I'd agree it sounds lazy, and I felt a bit ripped off when I heard it.   What's so new?   Which boundaries are being pushed?

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - October 21 2008 at 14:47

It's absoloutely fine that he does not like the album !!! Never had a problem with people not liking things, but liking (or not) is an emotional response to something - trying to "intellectualise" that simply misses the point and is a trap I think many reviewers fall into. the "this is wrong" rather than "I don't like"  trap is a a dangerous one to fall into, it merely makes the reviewer look like a dick, rather than the outcome I suspect they wish for and that is to make the music look poor!

Although this gem still has me chuckling....
"if I was reviewing this without considering my Prog needs,"  
Do you, does ANY one, think that ANY music would be better if the composer considered the listeners "prog needs"   
Very dangerous territory for a musician to fall into, although I suspect a few that do, this is certainly NOT something you can accuse Nick Barrett of, indeed I suspect he couldn't give a wizards hat for your "prog needs"  

I agree also that diversity makes for an interesting world, and with that thought I'm going to listen to some unadulterated POP music!

I'm not fan of Neo prog. It's really not my thing.

prog-chick wrote: Henry Plainview wrote: But at least RIO doesn't fall into that infuriating, lazy 4/4 midtempo drumbeat that neo does. ;-) Pendragon's PURE album is pushing the boundaries of NEO, it's young, it's relevant and it's simply bursting with both emotion and energy......... and that new boy Scott Higham does some incredible things with a drum kit, it's fabulous to listen to, and mesmerising to watch what it certainly is NOT is infuriating or lazy! Not by any stretch of the imagination! I think the biggest problem "Neo" has are these infuriating and lazy preconceptions! W x

Edited by Henry Plainview - October 21 2008 at 12:05

I think Mark you made your feelings clear, you expressed you opinions plainly in your review.

Others have also expressed their feelings clearly.

There comes a point when dressing up your opinion as fact just becomes funny, and thanks, you gave me a bleedin good laugh !

P-Cx

Henry Plainview wrote: But at least RIO doesn't fall into that infuriating, lazy 4/4 midtempo drumbeat that neo does. ;-)

Pendragon's PURE album is pushing the boundaries of NEO, it's young, it's relevant and it's simply bursting with both emotion and energy......... and that new boy Scott Higham does some incredible things with a drum kit, it's fabulous to listen to, and mesmerising to watch what it certainly is NOT is infuriating or lazy! Not by any stretch of the imagination!

I think the biggest problem "Neo" has are these infuriating and lazy preconceptions!


W x

As one who has King Crimson's Thrak, Vroom, Happy with what you have to be happy with, Construktion of Light And Power to Believe, I'm rather struck that they seem to be in a rut compositionally (i'm not talking of the extensive and seemingly never ending live releases), yet no one would dismiss them as "samey" or "non-progressing" as they do Neo bands.
Let's all admit it - after the first few Neo classic by Marillion, IQ, Pallas, Pendragon , the genre absorbed more of the album oriented rock sound that was a big influence on modern music in the 80s & 90s. Gabriel, Genesis Yes, once more showed progsters how to meld even newer influences, be it pop, world, or electronica. And so Marillion, IQ, and others took some and left some to forge their own sound.
With Marillion, they have developed a more "mainstream" sound, call it Adult oriented prog pop, if you want. But they have not become "mainstream" artists. Today's mainstream is dance oriented, ephemeral (as if most music isn't) teen & tween pop, with a few rap artists hitting the big time then disappearing. This is not the late 20th century definition of mainstream whcih included a much wider array of styles and personalities.
Gabriel, Genesis, Yes, Rush ... in their mid 80s "pop" period, shared the charts with groups as varied as Guns N Roses, U2, Sade, Madonna (before the image completely outwieghted the music), Metallica, AC/DC. Aerosmith, George Michael, Queen, and many others who could not be lumped into one "mainstream" genre. Back then, the mainstream meant mega sales and lasting fan bases. Today, it generally means 13 & a half minutes of fame and a few hundred thoudand downloads of a ringtone, hardly the stuff of legends and lasting careers.
I have Happiness is the Road, and I love it. It's not Tales of Topographic Oceans. It is not 90125. It is not Keys to the Ascension. But it is Marillion making its' way towards their own musical goals. If they were just doing it so as to try to sell millions , they would have quit a long time ago, eh. So they must be doing it for more than just commercial considerations.
And who knows, maybe they come to a point where they pull off a Pendragon - Pure, and bring their music to another level. IN the meantime, there are still many (not millions) prog fans that find them enjoyable and well worth a listen. AND HAVE no problem seeing them called Neo-Prog.
I often ask myself at what point is it possible to hit the limit of avant-gardededness. Let's face it, there's only so much that can be done that hasn't been done. And if you are an avant-garde artist, do you stop being one if you keep playing the same sort of, I don't know, atonal guitar screech, and japanese drum machine sounds as you did on your previous four records, even though your third one was processed through a vocoder, anf the second one riffed off of Beethoven String quartets ?
Each genre has its' limitations and imitations. Just as Neo does.
Nuff said.

AlexUC wrote: After reading that much about the genre, I decided to give a chance to this band with their new album. First problem: For some reason, I can't concentrate listening to this album... Maybe because the album is not as dense and charged as a Zappa album, f.i.? and I loose the line.   Well, if you try to find a Neo Prog band as debnse as Zappa, you are losing your time, because that's not one o the main characteristics o the genre, it's like trying to find pristine and clear elodies in Henry Cow. I can't say this is the same neo prog sound (yes, a contradiction). This is something new in the genre (for what I've heard)(pretty obvious, but compared with earlier works) which sounds nicer for me. The atmosphere is colder (not as warm as the usual neo prog), mixed rhythms and more adventurous composition.   I received Pure last Tuesday I heard it a lot of times and yes, it's different to the usual Pendragon, Neo Prog is in a transitional period towards something completely different, some bands like Marillion IMO are leaning towards POP while Pendragon is getting more elaborate in some aspects, harder, aggressive and much ,ore mature, after a couple of listens more I will be reviewing it. However, sometimes I feel these bands are stuck in the genre, I wish their good ideas flow more freely. This is something I would like to change from Pure. For the rest, I can live with the album, and I must say I'm pretty exited about this new approach. I would like to hear great bands like IQ, Marillion and Pallas doing different things.   I believe Pure is the most free expression by Pendragon, if there's anything they are not, it'st stuck to the genre.   Iván

After seeing Pendragon live last Monday and listening to Pure for whole week I should say one thing: Most of the prog legends at this point of their careers (namely celebrating 30th anniversary) was only just touring or copying old recipes or struggling for wider audience playing mere pop. There were few exceptions, like King Crimson or Van Der Graaf Generator, incidentally being the bands, that never gained such popularity to get excessive incomes.

Thanks, Ivan. I went to their MySpace site, and Jean and I really liked what we heard there.

Edited by BaldFriede - October 09 2008 at 19:14