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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2014 at 09:26
Last night I watched a lovely family film called Marcellino Pan y Vino, which was made in 1955 in Spain.  It is about a young child adopted by Franciscan friars after his mother's death.  The boy is a little rascal who keeps interesting the lives of these monks and of course they get very attached to him.  Over time he develops a relationship with our Lord that is handled very beautifully by the filmmaker. 

By today's standards the film is old fashioned and this might bother today's viewer used to action and modern technique.  But if you are looking for an affirming family film that embraces faith rather than mocking it, this is a charming little story.   There are many positive messages throughout.  There have been remakes over the years but i would encourage you to seek out the original 1955 version, there's something special about this film.  The DVD comes with subtitles or an English audio track if you don't like reading subtitles. 


...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2014 at 19:39
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

All true, though nothing beats the woman saying "I'd encourage Mr. Darwin to try God" LOLLOLLOL 

I don't blame that woman, that's an act of faith, and God knows if that woman even know who's Darwin, they are a product of schools who teach that Intelligent Design is a science. A few Catholics believe in ID (Very few, specially in USA), but even they know that it's not science, it's religion....I criticize people  who use the prefix Dr, before their names and say teach that evolution is diabolic.

My nephew has 10 years, and he studies in the same Catholic School I did, just gave him my copy of The Origin of the Species I used many decades ago (I keep some school books covered with transparent plastic), the funny thing is that he also has the same science teacher I had, the guy must be 60 at least (he was a newly graduate in my days and heard Rick Wakeman), but I'm glad he is still there, because the guy taught me that evolution is not incompatible with faith.

            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2014 at 15:57
All true, though nothing beats the woman saying "I'd encourage Mr. Darwin to try God" LOLLOLLOL 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2014 at 15:13
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Ivan, here's is some of what some of those you mentioned believe in. I respect beliefs but idiocy ... 


 

I've seen the video, it's moronic

. Kan Ham is the idiot who created the atrocious Creation Museum, with scientific exhibitions as:





God, you have to be a bit retarded to believe that human lived with dinosaurs simultaneously  against all proofs.

- Pastor Peter la Ruffa is a perfect idiot with his phrase:

Quote
"If somewhere within the Bible, I were to find a passage that said 2 + 2 = 5, I wouldn't question what I'm reading in the Bible. I would believe it, accept it as true, and then do my best to work it out and understand it."
Pastor Peter La Ruffa. 

That's what I call "Moron and proud"...The Bible is a book of faith, not a book of science

- Dr (In what?) Charles Bonner is the worst retarded of all, he says the worst stupidity many creationists fal in, is to believe that huan body is made at the image of God:

a) Man was made at the image of God
b) Then Man can't be an animal, because God is not an animal.

That's stupid, Saint Augustine in 410 (City of God), clearley explained this:

Quote When we shall have reached that peace, this mortal life shall give place to one that is eternal, and our body shall be no more this animal body which by its corruption weighs down the soul, but a spiritual body

This ignorant pastors doctors in God know what, downgrade God to the corruptible nature of man.

God doesn't have a body, a face, eyes, arms, etc..God is a spiritual being and the only part of man that can be the image of God, is man's immortal soul.

The Pope John Paul II was clear  in this point when talking to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences (He was a Real doctor in Theology, Philosophy and History, but never used the title) 

Quote It is by virtue of his eternal soul that the whole person, including his body, possesses such great dignity. Pius XII underlined the essential point: if the origin of the human body comes through living matter which existed previously, the spiritual soul is created directly by God ("animas enim a Deo immediate creari catholica fides non retimere iubet"). (Humani Generis)

MESSAGE TO THE PONTIFICAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES:
ON EVOLUTION
Pope John Paul II

So, anybody who believes the corruptible human body is made at the image of God, is an ignorant.



Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 12 2014 at 15:18
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2014 at 13:16
Ivan, here's is some of what some of those you mentioned believe in. I respect beliefs but idiocy ... 


 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2014 at 03:07
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Moogtron III Moogtron III wrote:



Iván, if I may be so frank to ask, I read somewhere that you said that you did begin to study theology, but why did you stop?
Me, I studied law and later did theology, so it looked like I took the opposite route, or am I mistaking?
Just being curious.

Didn't stopped Moogtron.

Our University system contemplates 2 years of General Studies, and we are forced to take 2 years of a foreign language that wasn't taught at your school (I Took German) because my school is from USA, and also you have to take 8 classes of another profession different to the one you will go, I took 4 classes of History and 4 classes of Theology, but liked both, so I took my elective courses (28 credits)  30%/70% in history and Theology, but even more, I asked permission to take my 2 mandatory Philosophy classes, the Ethic class, and a couple more in the Theology faculty.

I made more or less 50% of the Theology career and 25% of the History, I planned to finish Theology. But when I finished General Studies, I had to start my law classes, and focus in the career, plus we have to make 2 years of Pre-Professional Practice in a law firm to get your degree, and I didn't have time.

Then  I started to work as a lawyer in a chemical company  and never finished. I plan to complete the studies in some years when the situation is better.

Iván



Okay, now I understand.
That's a broad education you had, good for you!
I hope you'll find the time, in the future, to complete theology studies.
Is it just for interest that you would finish it, or would you want to do something with it professionally as well?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2014 at 15:22
Originally posted by Moogtron III Moogtron III wrote:



Iván, if I may be so frank to ask, I read somewhere that you said that you did begin to study theology, but why did you stop?
Me, I studied law and later did theology, so it looked like I took the opposite route, or am I mistaking?
Just being curious.

Didn't stopped Moogtron.

Our University system contemplates 2 years of General Studies, and we are forced to take 2 years of a foreign language that wasn't taught at your school (I Took German) because my school is from USA, and also you have to take 8 classes of another profession different to the one you will go, I took 4 classes of History and 4 classes of Theology, but liked both, so I took my elective courses (28 credits)  30%/70% in history and Theology, but even more, I asked permission to take my 2 mandatory Philosophy classes, the Ethic class, and a couple more in the Theology faculty.

I made more or less 50% of the Theology career and 25% of the History, I planned to finish Theology. But when I finished General Studies, I had to start my law classes, and focus in the career, plus we have to make 2 years of Pre-Professional Practice in a law firm to get your degree, and I didn't have time.

Then  I started to work as a lawyer in a chemical company  and never finished. I plan to complete the studies in some years when the situation is better.

Iván


            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2014 at 13:46
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I was talking with Theo and sent him a video of a woman who asks the faithful members of her "CULT" for money to touch the head of a statue that will supposedly give them a lot of money (THAT'S IDOLATRY, THE IMAGE REPLACES GOD, OUR SAINTS DON'T REPLACE GOD), she divides the crew in two groups, one that have to pay US$ 1,000.000 that will go first, and others that can pay US$ 500.00 that will touch the statue later.

When people say they don't have money, she has the nerve to say that she accepts a car or diamonds or jewelry. One poor woman handles here a paper with her name, and the preacher calls her DISHONEST, because that paper is worth nothing, until she finds the poor woman is giving her a check and her face changes.

It's totally in Spanish and can't post it here.

But those people harm Christianity, when people sees them place all of us in the same sack, just as the lamest miracle in history.


For those who don't speak Spanish, the guy says that the woman has an arm shorter than the other (Placing one hand obviously behind the other).

The guy speaks in Spanish and makes some sounds (According to them, language of angels Dead ) the woman moves her hands in order to make people believe her fingers have grown (Of course a sidekick shout and praises),  and then ask for money.

This merchants of faith, should disappear.

Iván

As I told you in the PM, I found that video disgusting. It saddens me how people are ignorant and kept in ignorance so as to become easier preys for these type of predators. poor people, many I'm sure didn't even have that much money yet they willingly give it away to fraudsters like that woman. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2014 at 13:27
Theologian J.I. Packer once called theologians are some sort of water expurgators.
There are a lot of things going on in Christianity which should be critically followed, it's like expurgating water from bacterias and other harmful elements.
In a certain phase in my life was quite astounded by prosperity gospel, which says you can pray for anything that your heart desires, and poverty is a sign of unbelief.
Nowadays, I could easily put that aside because of simply reading the Bible, and pointing towards millions of strong believers with little or no money.
Still, it hinders me that so many people in Christianity have strange thoughts and dogmas.
You should always be critical, that's for sure.

Iván, if I may be so frank to ask, I read somewhere that you said that you did begin to study theology, but why did you stop?
Me, I studied law and later did theology, so it looked like I took the opposite route, or am I mistaking?
Just being curious.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2014 at 13:09
I was talking with Theo and sent him a video of a woman who asks the faithful members of her "CULT" for money to touch the head of a statue that will supposedly give them a lot of money (THAT'S IDOLATRY, THE IMAGE REPLACES GOD, OUR SAINTS DON'T REPLACE GOD), she divides the crew in two groups, one that have to pay US$ 1,000.000 that will go first, and others that can pay US$ 500.00 that will touch the statue later.

When people say they don't have money, she has the nerve to say that she accepts a car or diamonds or jewelry. One poor woman handles here a paper with her name, and the preacher calls her DISHONEST, because that paper is worth nothing, until she finds the poor woman is giving her a check and her face changes.

It's totally in Spanish and can't post it here.

But those people harm Christianity, when people sees them place all of us in the same sack, just as the lamest miracle in history.


For those who don't speak Spanish, the guy says that the woman has an arm shorter than the other (Placing one hand obviously behind the other).

The guy speaks in Spanish and makes some sounds (According to them, language of angels Dead ) the woman moves her hands in order to make people believe her fingers have grown (Of course a sidekick shout and praises),  and then ask for money.

This merchants of faith, should disappear.

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 11 2014 at 13:10
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2014 at 09:17
my faith is my light. I`ll be more fourth forward later.
Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake."



Music Is Live

Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed.



Keep Calm And Listen To The Music…
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2014 at 08:30
Taste is obviously something that money can´t buy. LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2014 at 19:25
^Because that guy is unknown outside of the little circle that follows his particular cult. I know he is part of a larger thing but since there is no monolithic church in charge of the other Christian religions, it's quite difficult to keep track of all the scammers and buffoons out there preaching nonsense and making themselves rich. Evangelism seems to be a pretty good business. If I had the magic touch I might become an evangelist myself

The Catholic Church rather difficult history and the fact that is easily identifiable makes it an easier target. 

EDIT: Also, I forgot: this guy's home makes me sick, both for the fact that his "believers" are probably in misery (I've seen some browsing channels late at night when I was in Ecuador) and, of course, for the INCREDIBLY ATROCIOUS TASTE. DeadDeadDead


Edited by The T - February 10 2014 at 19:30
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2014 at 18:54
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

 
2. Remarkable bad taste of the room below. DeadDead

You know, I collect antiques and my parents worked in antiques all their lives, my mother is an expert.

I know, the room has the style of a new rich, but it's expensive

- He has three Boulle cabinets, at least US$ 15,000 each one
- Two Boulle side bed $ 7,500 each one
- The mirror, maybe 20 grand
- The bed is a nightmare, but easily 4 or 5 grand
- Two marble pillars, distatasteful but at least 5 grand each
- The two chairs and foot furniture are modern imitations but still very expensive, let's say 5 grand

We only see 50% of the room and it's worth morre or less US$ 65,000.00

But the site http://www.taringa.net/posts/info/9852888/Conoces-la-casa-del-obispo-de-la-iglesia-pare-de-sufrir.html also shows us this:









The Chimney is invaluable, probably brought from an European house or castle 

Another site http://www.dogguie.net/la-presunta-mansion-de-edir-macedo/ shows:




She believes we are before at least 3 millions in furniture and marble 

Without counting the house itself





And people  don't speak about this.


            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2014 at 17:01
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

This is where the suposedly millionare Pope sleeps




A comfortable but modest bedroom LEND to him.

This is where Obispo Macedo (Pare de Sufrir Evangelical Church) sleeps http://forums.tibiabr.com/showthread.php?235384-Fotos-da-casa-do-bispo-Edir-Macedo!-Olha-pra-onde-o-seu-dinheiro-vai-)#.UvlMkGJ5OSo



 

All "apparently" with the money of the poorest people in Brazil.

That's not what the Bible intended with the tithe.

Iván

1. Remarkable what the current Pope is doing and he might be able to bring more believers into your Church Ivan precisely by breaking with some of the things of the past. 

2. Remarkable bad taste of the room below. DeadDead
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2014 at 16:06
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

 

Ivan, as I hope you are aware, I am generally more sympathetic to your views than many here when it comes to your beliefs, but I will point out a couple of truths here.

The Anglican Church is a Protestant church. It grew out of the Reformation in England.

The Anglican Church is catholic, and didn't grew from the reformation Laz.

Henry the VIII was the defender of the Catholic Church, and they consider themselves Catholics



Quote What is the difference between 

Anglicanism and Roman Catholicism?

In many respects, there are no differences between the two churches. They are both Christian churches, springing from the same ancient source as the Eastern Orthodox churches. As such, Anglicans and Roman Catholics read the Bible with not only the two Testaments but also the Apocrypha, those books of the Hebrew Bible written in Greek. Both churches recite the Nicene and Apostles Creeds. Both administer Baptism and Confirmation, and celebrate the Holy Communion, as well as the four other sacramental rites of Penance, Matrimony, Anointing of the Sick, and Holy Orders. Their clergy are ordained deacon first, then priest, unless they are called to be perpetual deacons. From the priests bishops are chosen and consecrated by no fewer than three bishops belonging to a scrupulously conserved line of bishops that reaches back to the earliest churches.

There are Roman Catholic and Anglican shrines to Mary. Some Anglicans pray the rosary. Both churches maintain calendars of saints, with special prayers and readings for their feast days. Both churches have orders of men and women religious, vowed celibates who live in monasteries and convents.

If you were to visit an Anglican parish (they both use the term for a congregation) and then a Roman Catholic parish, you would observe many other similarities. In the United States, at least, the liturgies are almost identical, as are the customary vestments worn by the clergy and lay assisting ministers.

The differences are in the details, for the most part. These differences flow from one central issue: who is in authority. The Roman Catholic Church has over the centuries steadily increased the power and prestige of the Pope, the Bishop of Rome. In our day, the combination of an extraordinarily gifted pope, John Paul II, with the mass media and globalization, have raised the office of pope to its highest level ever. The peripatetic pontiff has traveled far more than any of his predecessors. When he visits a country, it is to speak, not to listen, however. His bishops around the world act more as his prefects than as overseers of the regional Christian community. St Augustine's famous saying, Roma locuta causa finita est (Rome has spoken and that settles the matter) has never been more true than today.

http://anglicansonline.org/resources/essays/whalon/AngRC-diffEng.html


As a fact the Ordinariate allows Anglican Priests to enter to the Roman Catholic Church keepin their marriage.

The Protestants are iconoclasts and don't worship Maru, don't have the seven sacraments, so the Anglicans are fully Catholics.

Originally posted by Lazland Lazland wrote:

The Orthodox churches split from the Roman Catholic Church in the 10th century. The Great Schism

Yes, we know that (In Birmingham Alabama I attended to an Orthodox Church, because the Roman Catholic was too far from where i lived, being that we are allowed to do so), but since the Uniata (Uniate), many Orthodox Churches have reunited accepting the Pope's authority.

Quote Eastern Catholic Churches make up a small percentage of the membership in the Catholic Church when compared to the Latin Church, which has over one billion members. The 2008 statistics collected by the CNEWA show that Syriac Christians make up 47% of Eastern Catholics and Byzantine Christians make up 46%. The three largest Eastern churches are the Byzantine Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church with 4.3 million members (25%), the Syriac Syro-Malabar Catholic Church at 3.9 million faithful (23%), and the Maronite Catholic Church with 3.29 million faithful



So the situation is far more complex

Originally posted by Lazland Lazland wrote:

The tithe in Britain, where the established church is Protestant, as far as I am aware, was ended as a statutory duty in the 19th century.

That I leave ti you Laz, not so familiar with the historical facts, I just know they don't accept tithe today

Originally posted by Lazland Lazland wrote:

I wasn't going to contribute much to these threads. As I posted elsewhere, I find evangelical atheists as pointless as religious ones, but historical fact, when we are talking about our beliefs. Is, I believe, very important.

I thank your contribution, it's very interesting to learn some facts i don't know.

I studied theology in the university parallel to my career and history, but never went for the full degree, so there are facts I'm not familiar from smaller churches.

Plus you know, there are more than 50,000 small Protestant and evangelical churches, cults and/opr sects, and this changes every day, so there's no way to keep updated- 

Originally posted by Lazland Lazland wrote:

The main point, though, is, what possible business is it of an Atheist where those lovely images you posted of the Cathedral in  Lima come from? The post was designed to provoke you, and you responded true to form. Ignore it and them. You will never reach an accommodation with them.

I honestly have the greatest of respects for the big and formal Protestant churches, the Jews, Moslems, Budgists and almost every religion. In Jerusalem I prayed in the Mosque and the Synagogue as well as the Basilica  of the Holy Sepulcher because I promised my mentor to do that in respect for the God of Abraham. 

But as you, I can't accept  those who want throw us their believes in our faces and attack us. I believe religion and atheism is a free choice (My two closest friends are atheist and Agnostic), so anybody who wants to force us to do something make me sick, no matter if religious or atheist.

But we have been silent for decades, we received coward attacks, and I'm not willing to accept them anymore, most Protestant Churches are respectable, as Billy Graham said, there is much more that unites us that what separates us, but mainly evangelical churches are in a battle to get more converse, a bad habit that  belligerent atheists have learned well.

Cheers

Iván

Thanks Ivan.

I am off to bed shortly, so will not respond to all. So, just a couple of quick points.

If by Catholic, you mean the Universal Church, then I am very happy to agree with you re your main points about Orthodox and Anglican. Indeed, the last post in the thread saw this as well.

I do absolutely agree with you about the belligerence of atheists. I have said before that I have become a little less of a believer as I have grown older, and I genuinely regret that. I do, though, have a very open mind, and took the trouble to read Dawkins, our most (in)famous atheist. I find his love of biblical language and culture wholly genuine, but the way he, and very much others who have followed him recently, has sought to make atheism almost a new religion in its profound dislike and attacks on religious beliefs makes me extremely uncomfortable. Those discussions are, of course, rather mirrored in these threads on PA.

I passionately believe that religion should be separated from state politics. I also passionately believe that those of us who profess to believe should be allowed to do so without fear of persecution or ridicule. That does not mean that we should not accept the failings of the church we belong to, far from it. With learning comes a sense of maturity, and I think, an opportunity to come closer to God. Many scientists have said the same thing - the more they learn, the more they have faith that there is more than mere facts and physics. Also, I rather think that the new Pope could, if he lives long enough, transform the church in the way that John XXIII wanted to, but ran out of time to do so. We need a new Vatican Council, I believe, to take on the work of the second to its natural progression.

Many will ridicule me for saying this. I care not.

Nos Da (good night).
Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2014 at 15:59
Originally posted by aapatsos aapatsos wrote:

Not sure how you define the term "catholic" here. If it is what the Catholic Church is now, this is very different from what the Orthodox Church tradition - which is largely the Byzantine tradition (i.e. the Eastern Roman Church). If, of course, you mean Catholic in the context of the Gospel then I agree.

This tithe thing - I was not aware that this is going on, the only place I have met this is in the Gospel, i.e. the Jews contributing 10% of their income.

Interesting discussion.

EDIT: just read the last post, got what you mean

The tithe was supposed to be only in agricultural products, because the Rabi had to eat, but not to be the richest man in a country.

Quote [Deuteronomy 26]{26:1} “And when you will have entered into the land which the Lord your God will give to you to possess, and when you will have obtained it and are living within it:
{26:2} you shall take the first of all your crops, and place them in a basket, and you shall travel to the place which the Lord your God will choose, so that his name may be invoked there.
{26:3} And you shall approach the priest who will be in those days, and you shall say to him: ‘I profess this day, before the Lord your God, that I have entered into the land about which he swore to our fathers that he would give it to us.

Now it has changed, some guys as the Bishop Macedo from the "Pare de Sufrir" Evangelical Church in Brazil has gained a fortune of 1.1 Billion dollars FOR HIM all from the tithe of the poorest

Quote Edir Macedo Bezerra (born February 18, 1945) is a Brazilian religious leader of strong anti-communist bias,[1][2] businessman and the chairman and owner of the second-largest television network Rede Record since 1989 with its parent Central Record de Comunicaçăo who also founded after he bought the network. Macedo was raised Catholic, but by 1970 converted to a Pentecostal. He founded with others the "Neo-Pentecostal"Universal Church of the Kingdom of God in Rio de Janeiro state, Brazil in 1977.

His rapidly growing religious movement and his teaching of the prosperity theology have been a source of controversy. His views about other faiths, particularly Catholicism, are also controversial. In 1992, he spent eleven days in jail on accusations of charlatanism. There were several protests, with his religious followers camping in front of the place he was held (a police precinct) as he confirms it in his autobiography "Nothing to Lose".[3]

According to Forbes and Business Week he is continuously involved in scandals, mostly due to allegations that the UCKG illegally channelled donations of billions of US dollars intended for charity overseas, then returned the money to Brazil where, according to Săo Paulo's public prosecutor, there was evidence that it was used in the personal interests of the church leaders, including Macedo, being accused. There have also been official charges of fraud and money laundering.As of January 2013 Macedo was still under prosecution by US and Venezuelan authorities.

In March 2013 Macedo was on the Forbes billionaires list with a reported US$1.1 billion

This is where the suposedly millionare Pope sleeps




A comfortable but modest bedroom LEND to him.

This is where Obispo Macedo (Pare de Sufrir Evangelical Church) sleeps http://forums.tibiabr.com/showthread.php?235384-Fotos-da-casa-do-bispo-Edir-Macedo!-Olha-pra-onde-o-seu-dinheiro-vai-)#.UvlMkGJ5OSo



 

All "apparently" with the money of the poorest people in Brazil.

That's not what the Bible intended with the tithe.

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 10 2014 at 16:06
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2014 at 15:32
Not sure how you define the term "catholic" here. If it is what the Catholic Church is now, this is very different from what the Orthodox Church tradition - which is largely the Byzantine tradition (i.e. the Eastern Roman Church). If, of course, you mean Catholic in the context of the Gospel then I agree.

This tithe thing - I was not aware that this is going on, the only place I have met this is in the Gospel, i.e. the Jews contributing 10% of their income.

Interesting discussion.

EDIT: just read the last post, got what you mean


Edited by aapatsos - February 10 2014 at 15:34
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2014 at 15:32
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

 

Ivan, as I hope you are aware, I am generally more sympathetic to your views than many here when it comes to your beliefs, but I will point out a couple of truths here.

The Anglican Church is a Protestant church. It grew out of the Reformation in England.

The Anglican Church is catholic, and didn't grew from the reformation Laz.

Henry the VIII was the defender of the Catholic Church, and they consider themselves Catholics



Quote What is the difference between 

Anglicanism and Roman Catholicism?

In many respects, there are no differences between the two churches. They are both Christian churches, springing from the same ancient source as the Eastern Orthodox churches. As such, Anglicans and Roman Catholics read the Bible with not only the two Testaments but also the Apocrypha, those books of the Hebrew Bible written in Greek. Both churches recite the Nicene and Apostles Creeds. Both administer Baptism and Confirmation, and celebrate the Holy Communion, as well as the four other sacramental rites of Penance, Matrimony, Anointing of the Sick, and Holy Orders. Their clergy are ordained deacon first, then priest, unless they are called to be perpetual deacons. From the priests bishops are chosen and consecrated by no fewer than three bishops belonging to a scrupulously conserved line of bishops that reaches back to the earliest churches.

There are Roman Catholic and Anglican shrines to Mary. Some Anglicans pray the rosary. Both churches maintain calendars of saints, with special prayers and readings for their feast days. Both churches have orders of men and women religious, vowed celibates who live in monasteries and convents.

If you were to visit an Anglican parish (they both use the term for a congregation) and then a Roman Catholic parish, you would observe many other similarities. In the United States, at least, the liturgies are almost identical, as are the customary vestments worn by the clergy and lay assisting ministers.

The differences are in the details, for the most part. These differences flow from one central issue: who is in authority. The Roman Catholic Church has over the centuries steadily increased the power and prestige of the Pope, the Bishop of Rome. In our day, the combination of an extraordinarily gifted pope, John Paul II, with the mass media and globalization, have raised the office of pope to its highest level ever. The peripatetic pontiff has traveled far more than any of his predecessors. When he visits a country, it is to speak, not to listen, however. His bishops around the world act more as his prefects than as overseers of the regional Christian community. St Augustine's famous saying, Roma locuta causa finita est (Rome has spoken and that settles the matter) has never been more true than today.

http://anglicansonline.org/resources/essays/whalon/AngRC-diffEng.html


As a fact the Ordinariate allows Anglican Priests to enter to the Roman Catholic Church keepin their marriage.

The Protestants are iconoclasts and don't worship Maru, don't have the seven sacraments, so the Anglicans are fully Catholics.

Originally posted by Lazland Lazland wrote:

The Orthodox churches split from the Roman Catholic Church in the 10th century. The Great Schism

Yes, we know that (In Birmingham Alabama I attended to an Orthodox Church, because the Roman Catholic was too far from where i lived, being that we are allowed to do so), but since the Uniata (Uniate), many Orthodox Churches have reunited accepting the Pope's authority.

Quote Eastern Catholic Churches make up a small percentage of the membership in the Catholic Church when compared to the Latin Church, which has over one billion members. The 2008 statistics collected by the CNEWA show that Syriac Christians make up 47% of Eastern Catholics and Byzantine Christians make up 46%. The three largest Eastern churches are the Byzantine Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church with 4.3 million members (25%), the Syriac Syro-Malabar Catholic Church at 3.9 million faithful (23%), and the Maronite Catholic Church with 3.29 million faithful



So the situation is far more complex

Originally posted by Lazland Lazland wrote:

The tithe in Britain, where the established church is Protestant, as far as I am aware, was ended as a statutory duty in the 19th century.

That I leave ti you Laz, not so familiar with the historical facts, I just know they don't accept tithe today

Originally posted by Lazland Lazland wrote:

I wasn't going to contribute much to these threads. As I posted elsewhere, I find evangelical atheists as pointless as religious ones, but historical fact, when we are talking about our beliefs. Is, I believe, very important.

I thank your contribution, it's very interesting to learn some facts i don't know.

I studied theology in the university parallel to my career and history, but never went for the full degree, so there are facts I'm not familiar from smaller churches.

Plus you know, there are more than 50,000 small Protestant and evangelical churches, cults and/opr sects, and this changes every day, so there's no way to keep updated- 

Originally posted by Lazland Lazland wrote:

The main point, though, is, what possible business is it of an Atheist where those lovely images you posted of the Cathedral in  Lima come from? The post was designed to provoke you, and you responded true to form. Ignore it and them. You will never reach an accommodation with them.

I honestly have the greatest of respects for the big and formal Protestant churches, the Jews, Moslems, Budgists and almost every religion. In Jerusalem I prayed in the Mosque and the Synagogue as well as the Basilica  of the Holy Sepulcher because I promised my mentor to do that in respect for the God of Abraham. 

But as you, I can't accept  those who want throw us their believes in our faces and attack us. I believe religion and atheism is a free choice (My two closest friends are atheist and Agnostic), so anybody who wants to force us to do something make me sick, no matter if religious or atheist.

But we have been silent for decades, we received coward attacks, and I'm not willing to accept them anymore, most Protestant Churches are respectable, as Billy Graham said, there is much more that unites us that what separates us, but mainly evangelical churches are in a battle to get more converse, a bad habit that  belligerent atheists have learned well.

Cheers

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 10 2014 at 15:37
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2014 at 14:51
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Moogtron III Moogtron III wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

1.- The Catholic Church is the only Christian Church that doesn't receive tithe (10% of the salary of it's members)

Great defense, Ivan, but just one tiny detail where I don't agree.
The above quoted statement is a dangerous statement to make. Wink
There are many Christian churches in the world, and you don't know the situation of all of them.
In Protestant Churches (the churches where I have first hand information) there are many denominations where there isn't tithe.
The situation of the different denominations sometimes differs per country too.

You are right, but lets be honest, most of the churches that don't tithe are catholics (Roman, Orthodox and Anglicans)  

I've been checking

1.- All Evangelical churches receive compulsory tithe
2.- All Pentecostal Churches receive compulsory  tithe
3.- Lutherans and Presbyterians accept tithe, but it's not compulsory
4.- Baptists receive tithe and it's compulsory
5.- Almost all Protestant churches accept tithe, but the percentage varies.
6.- Jehovah Witness don't tithe formally, but they aren't really Christians (They don't believe Christ is God), and a great percentage of the JW inherit all their properties to their church.
7.- Orthodox don't tithe, but as you know they are Catholics
8.- Anglicans don't tithe, but they are also Catholics
9.- Oriental Churches don't tithe, but they joined the Roman catholic Church.

There are a few small protestant churches that don't tithe because the Bible says that the tithe is exclusively of agriculture products and they aren't allowed to receive money.

Iván

Ivan, as I hope you are aware, I am generally more sympathetic to your views than many here when it comes to your beliefs, but I will point out a couple of truths here.

The Anglican Church is a Protestant church. It grew out of the Reformation in England.

The Orthodox churches split from the Roman Catholic Church in the 10th century. The Great Schism.

The tithe in Britain, where the established church is Protestant, as far as I am aware, was ended as a statutory duty in the 19th century.

I wasn't going to contribute much to these threads. As I posted elsewhere, I find evangelical atheists as pointless as religious ones, but historical fact, when we are talking about our beliefs. Is, I believe, very important.

The main point, though, is, what possible business is it of an Atheist where those lovely images you posted of the Cathedral in  Lima come from? The post was designed to provoke you, and you responded true to form. Ignore it and them. You will never reach an accommodation with them.
Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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