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progbethyname View Drop Down
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Points: 7868 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2013 at 09:51
Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:


Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

Agalloch are blowing my mind these days.

The album. ASHES AGAINST THE GRAIN.

Here are the opening lyrics...

The texture of the soul is a vermillion flood
               From a wound carved from an oath; it fills the riverbank a sanguine fog

               These arms were ment to be lost! Hacked, severed and forgotten
               The texture of timevidvs whisper that echoes across the flood
               It's hymn resonates from tree to tree, though ever sullen bough it sings
               These boughs were said to be lost! Torn, Unearthed and broken
                 Earth to flesh, flesh to wood, cast these LIMBS into water
                 Flesh to wood, wood to stone, cast the stone into water....


Ok. Wow. This is heavy doom and gloom and such a bleak outlook on the nature of our souls.

What do you guys think? Beautiful and brutal right?

I like it, "Hacked, Severed and Forgotten" could have been the title of a Peter Hammill song.  I was intrigued so I hit youtube and listened to the whole album.  First time I've heard them...vaguely remind me of My Dying Bride's, "As the Flower Withers".  Nice marriage of words and music...though without your translation I doubt I could have picked them out Wink  


Yeah. I guess I should have warned people about the 'vocal' work and style on ASHES TO THE GRAIN. It's the best I know and clearly the musicianship is what I really enjoy most with Agalloch. I absolutely love the interplay with the acoustic and electric guitars. So brilliant!! Also. The grim, bleak nature of the album had me totally curious.
Their are moments where HAUGHM has a softer vocal approach where is a little easier to digest and make out the lyrics!
All in all. Agalloch are a great find for me and I bought 'the mantle' as well. Should be another poetic genius effort that will arrive in my mailbox next week. Anyway. Glad you liked it!
Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Points: 361 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2013 at 20:10
Originally posted by Tubes Tubes wrote:

No offense, intended to you yourself mokito, but you do ALMOST sound like a condescending elitist douchebag; 1 Corinthians 3:18: Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

Oh, come on, dude.  Name-calling, and then quote the Bible?  Have you no grace at all?  Stop giving Christianity a bad name through your relentless bombast of this forum.  PLEASE!
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2013 at 19:34
Originally posted by Tubes Tubes wrote:

I always thought the gravestone and flower were allusions to the death of his spilt seed and his own mourning (self pity) about it. The message: Don't jack off. You're killing potential people.
Fish would not make such a statement and it's a wild leap of imagination to interpret it that way.
 
Incubus continues from where The Web finishes. For clues compare "You're all but forgotten, A mote in my heart" from The Web with " I've played this scene before, I the mote in your eye" from Incubus - they are thematically linked through photographs "Faded photos exposing pain"/"The darkroom unleashes imagination in pornographic images".
 
The Web was about a person not letting go after the end if a relationship, Incubus is the same person discovering compromising photographs from that relationship and realising the embarassment they could cause to the ex-girlfriend now. "With no flower to place before this gravestone" is merely an observation that there is no one mourning the death of that old relationship.
What?
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Points: 18167 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2013 at 17:36
Originally posted by Tubes Tubes wrote:

I always thought the gravestone and flower were allusions to the death of his spilt seed and his own mourning (self pity) about it. The message: Don't jack off. You're killing potential people.
 
I would think that it was more obvious that he is making a comment ... like ... what a waste of a good ___ that was!
 
Like that has not happened with so many groupies hanging around! And Dean's following discussion ... is almost right there, too!
 
We have this image that the lyrics ... are so saintly and clean and ... I think I will go throw up along with Roy Harper and Kevin Ayers!


Edited by moshkito - June 23 2013 at 10:28
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Points: 18167 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2013 at 17:32
Originally posted by Tubes Tubes wrote:

No offense, intended to you yourself mokito, but you do ALMOST sound like a condescending elitist douchebag; 1 Corinthians 3:18: Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
 
Interesting that the wisest of the fools would quote that and assume himself a bigger fool?
 
Judging others ... make sure you can look in the mirror first ... and not throw up!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Points: 16952 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2013 at 18:34
My all-time favorite lyricist is Toby Driver. Look up some of his work in Kayo Dot, it's mesmerizing. I've used excerpts of a handful of his songs as signatures here.

Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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Points: 20671 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2013 at 18:31
Lot of great lyrics around but I have always loved Harper's poetry .....
 
 

 


Edited by dr wu23 - June 21 2013 at 18:45
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
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Points: 14608 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2013 at 07:31
In the end Tubes has started something interesting. This sugests me a sentence from Fabrizio de Andre'
 
"nothing gets birth from diamonds, flowers get birth from manure" LOL
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Points: 11 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2013 at 07:21
Originally posted by Kazza3 Kazza3 wrote:

I came across these a while ago, they may be of interest:

http://alangullette.com/essays/music/tales.htm
http://alangullette.com/essays/lit/u_and_i.htm

Wow, thanks for the links, interesting work!
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Points: 4596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2013 at 19:37
Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

Agalloch are blowing my mind these days.

The album. ASHES AGAINST THE GRAIN.

Here are the opening lyrics...

The texture of the soul is a vermillion flood
               From a wound carved from an oath; it fills the riverbank a sanguine fog

               These arms were ment to be lost! Hacked, severed and forgotten
               The texture of timevidvs whisper that echoes across the flood
               It's hymn resonates from tree to tree, though ever sullen bough it sings
               These boughs were said to be lost! Torn, Unearthed and broken
                 Earth to flesh, flesh to wood, cast these LIMBS into water
                 Flesh to wood, wood to stone, cast the stone into water....


Ok. Wow. This is heavy doom and gloom and such a bleak outlook on the nature of our souls.

What do you guys think? Beautiful and brutal right?

I like it, "Hacked, Severed and Forgotten" could have been the title of a Peter Hammill song.  I was intrigued so I hit youtube and listened to the whole album.  First time I've heard them...vaguely remind me of My Dying Bride's, "As the Flower Withers".  Nice marriage of words and music...though without your translation I doubt I could have picked them out Wink  
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progbethyname View Drop Down
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Points: 7868 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2013 at 13:40
Agalloch are blowing my mind these days.

The album. ASHES AGAINST THE GRAIN.

Here are the opening lyrics...

The texture of the soul is a vermillion flood
               From a wound carved from an oath; it fills the riverbank a sanguine fog

               These arms were ment to be lost! Hacked, severed and forgotten
               The texture of timevidvs whisper that echoes across the flood
               It's hymn resonates from tree to tree, though ever sullen bough it sings
               These boughs were said to be lost! Torn, Unearthed and broken
                 Earth to flesh, flesh to wood, cast these LIMBS into water
                 Flesh to wood, wood to stone, cast the stone into water....


Ok. Wow. This is heavy doom and gloom and such a bleak outlook on the nature of our souls.

What do you guys think? Beautiful and brutal right?
Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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The.Crimson.King View Drop Down
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Points: 4596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2013 at 13:24
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

 
Omg. Incubus could very well be on par with Jigsaw for the tragic heart breaking scenarios.
Also. That is another fine interpretation. Really enjoy what you have to say here. I also of course totally agree about Fish being a master lyricist. Great stuff. Love it. Thank you for your insight. Oh the TRAGETY of rising actors. Fish is too good for her...dream or no dream. Lol. :)

Thank you Wink  

I agree with you on Jigsaw: "Dream coins for the fountains, or to cover your eyes".  I think poetically it's much more literal and direct than Incubus.  It doesn't really tell a linear story that leaves much to interpret, but has Fish turning some great metaphors to describe the death of a relationship.  Ya, Fish was the man.
Huddled in the safety of a pseudo-silk kimono wearing bracelets of smoke....It's a strong image, isn't it?

Don't even get me started on Misplaced Childhood.  There's enough wonderful poetry there to keep us analyzing for days.

"So I reached for a bottle and he reached for the door, and I picked up the sleeping pills crushed in the floor.  Inviting me to casual obscenity" Bowdown
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Points: 869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2013 at 13:12
Wow.  Tubes is still bashing on Gentle Giant?  Damn dude.  What happened?   They wouldn't let you blow them after a show?  And speaking of Gentle Giant shows.  I saw them a bunch of times and they were one of the best live bands I ever saw.

But seriously, Tubes.  It's okay if you don't like them.  I think you have "funny ways."  Cool  Beer  LOL


Funny Ways by Gentle Giant

I'm sorry to have been so much of a bore
But in my own funny way I find I learn much more.
I realise what you think from your eyes,
But in your own funny ways I find I learn much more.

My ways are strange
They'll never change
They stay, strange ways

I'm sorry to have been so close from the start,
But for all that I cared we could be miles apart.
I understood that you never would
Understand a way of life that I never could.

My ways are strange
They'll never change
They stay, strange ways

Go your own way or wait for me
Go your own way or wait for me
Go your own way or wait for me
Go your own way or wait for me

And so you see what happened to me
Since the time when I judged my life in nights and days
I realised that my life was lies
So you see what I mean with all my funny ways.
I'm sorry to have been so much of a bore
But in my own funny way I find I learn much more
Funny ways, Funny ways, Funny ways, Funny ways.


Edited by Larree - June 20 2013 at 13:15
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The.Crimson.King View Drop Down
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Points: 4596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2013 at 13:09
Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:


Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

 Omg. Incubus could very well be on par with Jigsaw for the tragic heart breaking scenarios.
Also. That is another fine interpretation. Really enjoy what you have to say here. I also of course totally agree about Fish being a master lyricist. Great stuff. Love it. Thank you for your insight. Oh the TRAGETY of rising actors. Fish is too good for her...dream or no dream. Lol. :)

Thank you Wink  
I agree with you on <span style="line-height: 1.2;">Jigsaw: "Dream coins for the fountains, or to cover your eyes".  I think poetically it's much more literal and direct than Incubus.  It doesn't really tell a linear story that leaves much to interpret, but has Fish turning some great metaphors to describe the death of a relationship.  Ya, Fish was the man.</span>



Maybe one day I'll get to use the lyric ' staaaaaaaaaaaaaannnd straighhht! Look in me in the eyes and sayyyyy goodbye!'

So brilliant.

I'd say odds are everyone will get to say that line (or have it said to them) at least once in their life Broken Heart
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progbethyname View Drop Down
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Points: 7868 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2013 at 12:29
Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:


Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

 Omg. Incubus could very well be on par with Jigsaw for the tragic heart breaking scenarios.
Also. That is another fine interpretation. Really enjoy what you have to say here. I also of course totally agree about Fish being a master lyricist. Great stuff. Love it. Thank you for your insight. Oh the TRAGETY of rising actors. Fish is too good for her...dream or no dream. Lol. :)

Thank you Wink  
I agree with you on <span style="line-height: 1.2;">Jigsaw: "Dream coins for the fountains, or to cover your eyes".  I think poetically it's much more literal and direct than Incubus.  It doesn't really tell a linear story that leaves much to interpret, but has Fish turning some great metaphors to describe the death of a relationship.  Ya, Fish was the man.</span>



Maybe one day I'll get to use the lyric ' staaaaaaaaaaaaaannnd straighhht! Look in me in the eyes and sayyyyy goodbye!'

So brilliant.
Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Points: 14608 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2013 at 12:16
Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

 
Omg. Incubus could very well be on par with Jigsaw for the tragic heart breaking scenarios.
Also. That is another fine interpretation. Really enjoy what you have to say here. I also of course totally agree about Fish being a master lyricist. Great stuff. Love it. Thank you for your insight. Oh the TRAGETY of rising actors. Fish is too good for her...dream or no dream. Lol. :)

Thank you Wink  

I agree with you on Jigsaw: "Dream coins for the fountains, or to cover your eyes".  I think poetically it's much more literal and direct than Incubus.  It doesn't really tell a linear story that leaves much to interpret, but has Fish turning some great metaphors to describe the death of a relationship.  Ya, Fish was the man.
Huddled in the safety of a pseudo-silk kimono wearing bracelets of smoke....It's a strong image, isn't it?
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Points: 4596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2013 at 11:55
Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

 
Omg. Incubus could very well be on par with Jigsaw for the tragic heart breaking scenarios.
Also. That is another fine interpretation. Really enjoy what you have to say here. I also of course totally agree about Fish being a master lyricist. Great stuff. Love it. Thank you for your insight. Oh the TRAGETY of rising actors. Fish is too good for her...dream or no dream. Lol. :)

Thank you Wink  

I agree with you on Jigsaw: "Dream coins for the fountains, or to cover your eyes".  I think poetically it's much more literal and direct than Incubus.  It doesn't really tell a linear story that leaves much to interpret, but has Fish turning some great metaphors to describe the death of a relationship.  Ya, Fish was the man.
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Points: 20671 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2013 at 09:33
Not sure what qualifies as 'poetry' in prog lyrics but I have always enjoyed a good/clever lyric and for me it adds to the overall likability of the band's music.
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
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70s?

The most amazing one ain't from that period. (Comfortably Numb)
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Points: 7868 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2013 at 03:03
Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:


Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:


Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

Ok. Now let's have some fun.



Derek Fish in song Incubus insightfully says 'With no flower to place before this gravestone.'

What is the flower and what is the gravestone?

Any takers?

:)

I'll play...but I can't just do the single line Wink
My interpretation of this fine example of dear Mr Dick's lyrical prowess is that <span style="line-height: 1.2;">I believe he seeks to portray the point of view of the worshipful "fan" who has become an obsessive "fanatic".  The object of his worship appears to be a well known female media personality (most likely in film and/or theater since he later refers to a "greasepaint mask") of (in his point of view) incredible beauty whose face has launched a thousand frames - the modern day equivalent of Helen of Troy whose face launched a thousand ships.  He is coming to the realization that there will never be any physical contact between them, so he puts a metaphorical "flower" before the "gravestone" which signifies the death of his earthly desire.  Why a "metaphorical" flower?  Because the entire "relationship" is played in his imagination; therefore, he can only ever hope to be an "incubus" visiting the object of his fascination in the </span>subconscious<span style="line-height: 1.2;"> world she inhabits in a dream state.  </span>
<span style="line-height: 1.2;"></span>
<span style="line-height: 1.2;">But wait!  He's not willing to admit defeat.  He has determined a plot to make his subconscious desire manifest itself in the physical world.  He invades her theatrical bubble so even the "perimeter of courtiers" who protect her from the trials and tribulations of the real world can no longer shield her from him.  He appears front and center in the audience and somehow his nocturnal efforts of the past will now pay off as he becomes the producer of her nightmare.  To everyone's disbelief (but his own) his very presence causes her to stutter, stammer, and lose her place in the fantasy of her "pretend" world.  Somehow, she recognizes him and is forced to exit the protected world of the theater and confront incubus, the producer of her nightmares.  Indeed, she's played this scene before.</span>


Oh come on!!! Hey. That was brilliant. You did the whole freakin song
You use the Incubus definition clearly to solve the big mistery between Fish and the wonder beauty.

You know its even been interpreted plainly.
The man (Fish) nursing an irrection with no flower to place before this gravestone.
The flower--her vagina
Gravestone--boner left unattended.

Big picture. The reality is no love or contact put before him to feel a sense of love or companionship.
It is isn't real cause the 'Incubus' literally is messing with his mind and distorting what's real and what's the dream land.

May I say. I much like your interpretation much better. Pretty weird, but that is what poetry does. It's ambiguities and usually never direct, which allows the flow of interpretation to happen amongst individuals. It breeds creative thought and group discussions which is why schools are so quick to use poetry as a lesson.

Anyway. Very good man. I think you nailed it.

Let's see who will be next. :)

Thanks for the kind words.  I quite like your "flower v gravestone" interpretation also.  As I was writing mine, I thought another approach could also work.  Rather than being a "long distance" fan-object relationship, the incubus was originally also in the theater (perhaps as her first Producer) and they were actually a couple.  As her career took off, his did not and he was forced to watch as she drifted farther and farther away finally leaving him alone only to surround herself with her new found sycophants...her "perimeter of courtiers".  He was forced to exchange their actual physical relationship to one where the closest he could get would be as an incubus to his "unapproachable" nightly target Cry
Anyway, I think Fish was one of progs finest lyricists and the OP's wish to specifically exclude him from this discussion to focus only on the "true giants of progressive rock" a glaring omission.


Omg. Incubus could very well be on par with Jigsaw for the tragic heart breaking scenarios.
Also. That is another fine interpretation. Really enjoy what you have to say here. I also of course totally agree about Fish being a master lyricist. Great stuff. Love it. Thank you for your insight. Oh the TRAGETY of rising actors. Fish is too good for her...dream or no dream. Lol. :)
Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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