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Henry Plainview 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
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Points: 16715
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 Posted: June 02 2010 at 16:20 |
 elder08 wrote:
rushfan4 wrote:
Umm...this is a prog site, not Amazon.com or some other general music site. The progginess quotient or lack thereof is a somewhat important factor to consider in regards to the audience that you are writing the review for. The star guidlines do tell you to rate the album on where it would fit into a prog fan's collection. There are now different star guidlines in regards to albums of artists listed as prog-related and proto-prog. I suppose that where it gets sticky is with the non-prog albums of artists that are listed as prog bands. Those albums should get immediately downgraded under the star system as a result of their lack of progginess. Thus, the inclusion of such a discussion within the review. |
Yeah but I have seen some people give a fine album that deserved a 4 a 2 for lack of being prog enough that would be like me giving Crack the Skye a one for lack of amazing vocals keying in on one point and not even noting on others that are amazing
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Or they just didn't like it? There are very few non-prog rock albums that I would give a 4 to under any circumstances, and in a large part that is because of the qualities that makes something non-prog rock.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
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Points: 22989
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Posted: June 02 2010 at 16:09 |
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^ Yes but in your OP you asked about people reviewing the progness, not rating by the progness. Those are quite different things.
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elder08
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 25 2010
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 236
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Posted: June 02 2010 at 15:57 |
rushfan4 wrote:
Umm...this is a prog site, not Amazon.com or some other general music site. The progginess quotient or lack thereof is a somewhat important factor to consider in regards to the audience that you are writing the review for. The star guidlines do tell you to rate the album on where it would fit into a prog fan's collection. There are now different star guidlines in regards to albums of artists listed as prog-related and proto-prog. I suppose that where it gets sticky is with the non-prog albums of artists that are listed as prog bands. Those albums should get immediately downgraded under the star system as a result of their lack of progginess. Thus, the inclusion of such a discussion within the review. |
Yeah but I have seen some people give a fine album that deserved a 4 a 2 for lack of being prog enough that would be like me giving Crack the Skye a one for lack of amazing vocals keying in on one point and not even noting on others that are amazing
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"There are people who say we [Pink Floyd] should make room for younger bands. That's not the way it works. They can make their own room."- David Gilmour
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
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Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32553
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Posted: June 02 2010 at 15:47 |
rushfan4 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
rushfan4 wrote:
Umm...this is a prog site, not Amazon.com or some other general music site. The progginess quotient or lack thereof is a somewhat important factor to consider in regards to the audience that you are writing the review for. The star guidlines do tell you to rate the album on where it would fit into a prog fan's collection. There are now different star guidlines in regards to albums of artists listed as prog-related and proto-prog. I suppose that where it gets sticky is with the non-prog albums of artists that are listed as prog bands. Those albums should get immediately downgraded under the star system as a result of their lack of progginess. Thus, the inclusion of such a discussion within the review. |
I agree with you...
...however, there are a few non-prog albums in prog categories I have given five stars to.
I will just have to live with my hypocrisy. 
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On the other hand, you might want to have a doctor take a look at that for you. You wouldn't want it to spread. |
Dr. Evil? 
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66588
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Posted: June 02 2010 at 15:04 |
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
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Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32553
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Posted: June 02 2010 at 15:01 |
rushfan4 wrote:
Umm...this is a prog site, not Amazon.com or some other general music site. The progginess quotient or lack thereof is a somewhat important factor to consider in regards to the audience that you are writing the review for. The star guidlines do tell you to rate the album on where it would fit into a prog fan's collection. There are now different star guidlines in regards to albums of artists listed as prog-related and proto-prog. I suppose that where it gets sticky is with the non-prog albums of artists that are listed as prog bands. Those albums should get immediately downgraded under the star system as a result of their lack of progginess. Thus, the inclusion of such a discussion within the review. |
I agree with you...
...however, there are a few non-prog albums in prog categories I have given five stars to.
I will just have to live with my hypocrisy.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
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Points: 32553
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Posted: June 02 2010 at 14:59 |
Gerinski wrote:
"the style is similar to Genesis' Wind and Wuthering but with less complex compositions and more comercial melodies and more neo-prog arrangements" |
Damn, dude!
Copy and paste that line into the your review box these days and half the time you'll be right on the money!
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seventhsojourn
Special Collaborator
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Joined: December 11 2009
Location: .
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Points: 4006
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Posted: June 02 2010 at 14:55 |
^ Gerinski,
I'm comparitively new here myself, but i can tell you there are actually more than enough threads with people giving advice on reviews. I've taken on board a lot of this advice, but to be honest I've come to the point where i realise that you can't please everyone. Best just to go with your own feelings. So long as you follow the reviews guidelines you should be fine:
Rob, you're a bad man   |
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
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Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66588
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Posted: June 02 2010 at 14:47 |
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Umm...this is a prog site, not Amazon.com or some other general music site. The progginess quotient or lack thereof is a somewhat important factor to consider in regards to the audience that you are writing the review for. The star guidlines do tell you to rate the album on where it would fit into a prog fan's collection. There are now different star guidlines in regards to albums of artists listed as prog-related and proto-prog. I suppose that where it gets sticky is with the non-prog albums of artists that are listed as prog bands. Those albums should get immediately downgraded under the star system as a result of their lack of progginess. Thus, the inclusion of such a discussion within the review.
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5154
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Posted: June 02 2010 at 14:36 |
I'm a newbie so it's absolutely not my intention to try to give lessons to anyone, but we all see thing we like and things we do not like in reviews.
I wonder if it has even been done but otherwise it might be a good idea to try to write some kind of "GUIDE OF THE GOOD REVIEWER".
Some examples of the kind of recommendations I would list:
1. It's probably unavoidable to make subjective statements about an album, but try also to give objective statements which can help other readers to understand what will they find in the album. Statements such as "this is a great album, buy it and it will not disappoint you" do not convey much useful objective information. Statements such as "the style is similar to Genesis' Wind and Wuthering but with less complex compositions and more comercial melodies and more neo-prog arrangements" are much more informative.
2. Preferably do not review albums which are your first listen of the band. You have nothing to compare to. You may be tempted to say things such as "this is the best neo-prog album I've ever heard" when maybe it's the weakest album of that band. Well informed comments such as "if you do not know this band this is not their best album to start with, start better with xxx" or "this album is a vast improvement compared to their previous one but still weaker than their next release zzz" are much more useful.
etc
I leave it to other members to make their suggestions for what such a "Guide of the good reviewer" might say.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32553
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Posted: June 02 2010 at 14:28 |
elder08 wrote:
Okay how about this people reviewing on these sights should always follow the guidelines and respect the fact that everything you listen to ISN'T GOING TO BE PROG. |
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elder08
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 25 2010
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 236
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Posted: June 02 2010 at 14:22 |
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Okay how about this people reviewing on these sights should always follow the guidelines and respect the fact that everything you listen to ISN'T GOING TO BE PROG.
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"There are people who say we [Pink Floyd] should make room for younger bands. That's not the way it works. They can make their own room."- David Gilmour
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seventhsojourn
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 11 2009
Location: .
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Points: 4006
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Posted: June 02 2010 at 14:15 |
elder08 wrote:
Yeah it wasnt nessacary but anyways I don't want to post them just in case they get offended |
Yep, that's fair enough. 
However I think some carefully worded, constructive criticism can help people try to improve their reviewing skills. Doesn't need to be negative.
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The T
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
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Points: 17493
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Posted: June 02 2010 at 14:12 |
Well, it's a prog site. There's people who like prog to be prog and nothing else. Grant them the right to write reviews under that light without calling them stupid. 
I don't think an album is good or bad depending on how "prog" or "zeuhl" or whatever it is, but some people do, and I guess it's perfectly legitimate.
(I actually would rate quite low a too-zeuhl album  ) |
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elder08
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 25 2010
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 236
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Posted: June 02 2010 at 14:08 |
lazland wrote:
Sometimes it can be unavoidable, especially if someone is reviewing an album which, to them, is absolutely definitive of a particular sub-genre or sound.
You've done one review on your time on PA - why not do some more so we can contrast your style with the styles you comment on?
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I think I will man I don't know if anyone reads them but i'll write some more
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"There are people who say we [Pink Floyd] should make room for younger bands. That's not the way it works. They can make their own room."- David Gilmour
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elder08
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 25 2010
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 236
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Posted: June 02 2010 at 14:07 |
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Yeah it wasnt nessacary but anyways I don't want to post them just in case they get offended
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"There are people who say we [Pink Floyd] should make room for younger bands. That's not the way it works. They can make their own room."- David Gilmour
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seventhsojourn
Special Collaborator
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Joined: December 11 2009
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 4006
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Posted: June 02 2010 at 14:06 |
What's with the negative vibes, man? 
Can't say I've noticed this phenomenon. I think your comment is too vague... why not post, with specific examples, in the reviews discussion thread?
BTW... I don't think it's constructive to say people look stupid in your OP... just my opinion |
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Progosopher
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 12 2009
Location: Coolwood
Status: Offline
Points: 6472
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Posted: June 02 2010 at 14:01 |
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Such designations are unimportant to me. As a term, "prog" is so ambiguous it can be used in a number of different ways. I don't know what 'zeuhl' really means, so I just ignore it except as a category. I can understand how some people might want to use the terms though - they provide a convenient framework for assessment. On the other hand, I do find them sophomoric when adhered to in a pedantic manner. But hey, we can't all really be experts and we have to start somewhere. I just hope those that cling to the designations learn more about music so that they can loosen their grip after a while.
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The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32553
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Posted: June 02 2010 at 14:00 |
elder08 wrote:
Please think of this next time you write a review it just makes you look stupid.
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Thanks for the warning.
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13796
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Posted: June 02 2010 at 13:55 |
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Sometimes it can be unavoidable, especially if someone is reviewing an album which, to them, is absolutely definitive of a particular sub-genre or sound.
You've done one review on your time on PA - why not do some more so we can contrast your style with the styles you comment on?
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