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Chus ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: October 16 2006 Location: Venezuela Status: Offline Points: 1991 |
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Perhaps you're listening to the wrong solo, Sasquamo. Try the Night Watch, for musicality if not technique, with not so common patterns in rock music; specially his tasteful use of 7ths and minor/major 6ths. Though for glimpse of more technical guitar playing then late Crimso is the nominated for showcase (not showoff) of skill.
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Jesus Gabriel
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Sasquamo ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 26 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 828 |
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Less can be more, but only in a certain, hard to hit range. After that, less is just less.
I think the best way to make albums is to let the players play what they wish to play, and just give them general ideas on how you want them to sound. For example, Miles Davis would get frustrated at John Coltrane for taking long solos, and he told him so, but it's not like he forced him to make them shorter he didn't like it, but he let everyone play the way they play. And what's so great about Fripp's guitar playing? I'm no guitar player, but I don't hear anything that great. The solo on 21st Century Schizoid Man sounds truly dreadful and not very difficult to me. |
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captainbeyond ![]() Forum Groupie ![]() Joined: December 05 2005 Status: Offline Points: 84 |
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Two things:
1) Atomic Rooster--you cited "Starless" as a great example of disciplined build-up. It is, and much more, as you noted. But it was also written around 1974, while Fripp's list for Bruford was written in 1981. Bruford's mid-70s tendencies were probably exactly was Fripp was writing against. 2) If Bruford was causing Fripp so much agita, it makes me wonder why Fripp chose him. Who would he have conceivably preferred? Jaki Leibzeit? Steve Jansen? Tony Allen?! |
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febus ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: January 23 2007 Location: Orlando-Usa Status: Offline Points: 4312 |
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I just think it's more of FRIPP kind of twisted sense of humor.
I mean Bill Bruford was with KC a first time in the Wetton era 1973-1974
He was there when Fripp reformed KC from 1981 to 1984
Bruford came back again in 1994 for a new KC incarnation.
So i don't think it was so bad.
Unless Bill B. is some kind of a masochist, i don't think he would have put up with that if it were true.
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Chus ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: October 16 2006 Location: Venezuela Status: Offline Points: 1991 |
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Funny, I though Mastelotto's fills were more shocking, perhaps old Fripp was thinking the other way around in the 2000?
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Jesus Gabriel
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Chicapah ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: February 14 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8238 |
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Hmmm... I guess this rules out Fripp ever working with Mike Portnoy.
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"Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain
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infandous ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: March 23 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2447 |
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Well, I personally wouldn't make rules like that in a band situation. Or any other, for that matter. But you are correct, there is the possibility of loosing your identity in a band situation like that. And I suppose that is partly why Bruford finally left (and had solo projects as an outlet). I think Hackett and Gabriel left Genesis for very similar reasons. Edited by infandous - April 25 2007 at 10:16 |
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akin ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: February 06 2004 Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 976 |
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The only thing that it shows is that Fripp wanted another kind of
drummer to his 80's albums, so he listed what he wanted Bruford to do.
Of course we know Fripp is not the most friendly and polite guy around,
but these lines doesn't prove that Fripp is ridiculous or an absolute
genius. He just wanted something different than Bruford was acostumed
to do.
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Visitor13 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() VIP Member Joined: February 02 2005 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 4702 |
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While I agree with you in principle, there's always the risk of becoming free of your own ego... only to become entangled in someone else's ego. With leadership comes responsibility and with responsibility comes what... a sheet of paper with 'thou shalts' and 'thou shalt nots'? Maybe there is no better way after all, but that does not prevent me from being suspicious of such texts and the people that create them... as much as I love King Crimson ![]() |
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infandous ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: March 23 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2447 |
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Nothing wrong with being the boss. Look at Zappa. I think you will find he was quite a bit more demanding than Fripp ever was/is, and all the musicians that played for him came out better than before they joined. I can't fault Fripp for pursuing his vision. And really, I think he was just trying to keep egos in check in the band. When you have such great and dominant players, things can get out of control fairly quickly without some sort of set direction. I really don't think he held Bruford back. I think he helped Bruford become a much better drummer, a more sympathetic drummer. Bruford, not surprisingly, has mixed feelings about his time with Crimson. But I'd be willing to bet he feels good about the benefits to his drumming that being in that band gave him.
To paraphrase Fripp, the true joy of playing comes when the music plays the player, and not the other way around. As individuals we can get caught up in our own egos and perceptions of what is "good", without realizing that we are not serving the music. And believe me, there is nothing more satisfying than when a band clicks as a single unit and submerges the individuals into a total "sound". This does not, as some might think, stifle creativity or expression, but actually amplifies and enhances it beyond what any individual can possibly do alone. This is not something that is easy, or that happens all the time. But when it does, there is no better musical experience. For me, anyhow. And I don't even much like 80's and 90's Crimson ![]() |
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pero ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July 11 2005 Location: Croatia Status: Offline Points: 1242 |
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When I said monastery I meant of his ten month course in Sherborne. He wrote about his experience:
Fripp gave one of his accounts of his Sherborne year when Stephe Pritchard, during the 1981 Recorder Three interview, asked him, "In what ways do you think Gurdjieff has influenced you?" Fripp answered, "Well, I probably wouldn't be here now, certainly not in this form, if I hadn't come across that." Fripp described how, during the ten-month course at Sherborne, students were allowed to leave the premises only one day every three weeks. "We lost three people to the asylum in my year and overall twenty per cent [of the students] left ... It was very, very hard work; it was the difference between working on the inside and the outside, that if you're feeling a bit pissed off you can go to the pictures or watch television or get drunk or do whatever. But in Sherborne you had to sit there and find a way of dealing with it - the expression would be working with it - not easy. The woman I was living with left me while I was there which was awful for me - I was pretty suicidal - it was not easy. But, on the other hand, that was certainly the beginning of my life, if you like." Fripp went on to describe the day's regimen, which began with rising at six in the morning (at four-thirty if one had kitchen duty). Morning psychological exercises were conducted at quarter to seven, followed by breakfast at seven thirty. At eight-thirty began the day's work with practical skills, including metal work, stonemasonry, carpentry, and so on. "In addition to practical work we had cosmological lectures, there were remarkable Gurdjieff movements, sacred kinesis; but essentially it was very practical, the school wasn't primarily theoretical." Many issues that came up during the year "confounded the mind," proving unamenable to rational analysis. The living quarters were cold, uncomfortable, and lacked privacy (Fripp shared a dorm room with five other men). Psychologically provocative situations constantly arose among the residents. And to top it off, Fripp even came to believe the house was haunted. Edited by pero - April 25 2007 at 07:38 |
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pero ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July 11 2005 Location: Croatia Status: Offline Points: 1242 |
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Here is some more Fripp's brainstorming
and the timeline for fans (I stopped beeing his fan after Starless and bible black)
and finaly biography by Eric Tamm
Edited by pero - April 25 2007 at 07:28 |
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Dick Heath ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12818 |
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And there was me thinking from many a favourite jazz rock drummer, Bruford was one of the most economic.........even less is much more???????????????
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The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
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Atavachron ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65549 |
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Though I hope he never actually told Bill those things (that would be provocative), Fripp is spot on.. less is indeed more.
Edited by Atavachron - April 25 2007 at 06:51 |
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laplace ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: October 06 2005 Location: popupControl(); Status: Offline Points: 7606 |
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fripp rules indeed
16. Don't release an album called Beat. |
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Visitor13 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() VIP Member Joined: February 02 2005 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 4702 |
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If a thread is in need of a humourous post, don't post it - its absence is humorous enough.
Doh! |
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Topographic ![]() Forum Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: April 05 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 71 |
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Wrong Crimso percussionist. You're thinking of Jamie Muir, the second percussionist on Larks' Tongues in Aspic. If I remember right, he broke his foot during a concert, quit the band, and ran off to a monastery. Apparently, he's a painter now. As far as the whole deal with Fripp and Bruford, they're probably two of my favorite musicians of all time, so I'm not sure quite what to think of it. It does show the quirky dynamics of the two for certain, though. ![]() -Topographic |
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Have you rearranged your liver to the solid mental grace today?
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pero ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July 11 2005 Location: Croatia Status: Offline Points: 1242 |
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The man is sick. No wonder that he spent time in monastery.
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fuxi ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: March 08 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2461 |
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Is this turning into a thread of blatant Fripp-worship, or something?
After Bill Bruford left Crimso, he was quoted as saying: "I found my time with the band musically and intellectually stimulating; I remain grateful for its existence, and full of admiration for its leader, as its leader well knows. I, of all the group's members, was not the enemy, but I did have the thickest skin, well used to receiving the sharpest barbs" (Sid Smith, IN THE COURT OF KING CRIMSON p. 286) Elsewhere, Bill has described Fripp as "a difficult bugger". I'm not surprised! ![]() Edited by fuxi - April 25 2007 at 04:30 |
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Atomic_Rooster ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 26 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1210 |
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Should the Fripp, may his laughter sound with the shattered groan of a million clowns, joke or quip, it would serve only to hasten the death of the world spirit - Fripp II 37:12-13 Remember and meditate always on such wise thoughts: "Discipline is a Vehicle for Joy" |
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I am but a servant of the mighty Fripp, the sound of whose loins shall forever be upon the tongues of his followers.
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