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uduwudu View Drop Down
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Points: 2601 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2016 at 04:42
Took me a while - a long while -but getting over the ubiquity of the singles, getting past the teeny bop image and the dreadful cover (how cheap can you get?) it's a fine album of music.

I suppose one has to get past everyone else's imposition (radio, peers) and make your own decision as to the music.

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Points: 46838 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2016 at 08:42
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

I can't stand the more well known tracks off this album - Wouldn't It Be Nice, Sloop John B, God Only Knows etc. on that alone, I've avoided this album like the plague.............


God Only Knows? One of the most sublimely beautiful songs ever recorded. Just listen to the ending...


god that song makes me weak in the knees... appeals to the real life hopeless romantic that only Raff knows ClapWink
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Points: 20030 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2016 at 07:32
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

I can't stand the more well known tracks off this album - Wouldn't It Be Nice, Sloop John B, God Only Knows etc. on that alone, I've avoided this album like the plague.............


God Only Knows? One of the most sublimely beautiful songs ever recorded. Just listen to the ending...
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Points: 46838 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2016 at 06:00
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

^ We have a tiny but strong Beach Boys fanbase here, and yeah, that as well as all incarnations of Smile have been discussed extensively;  even whether the band should be added to the database.   The BBs were the crucial American art-rock band IMO, well before Zappa and deeply influential on the British.




well said my friend.. Clap

as far as the album itself...  a well earned place near the very top of any thought out list of top albums ever recorded. Simply perfect...Heart


Edited by micky - November 24 2016 at 06:01
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Points: 15926 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2016 at 03:33
I can't stand the more well known tracks off this album - Wouldn't It Be Nice, Sloop John B, God Only Knows etc. on that alone, I've avoided this album like the plague.............
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2016 at 02:53
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:


I buy that.   It would be interesting to see their impact on musicians vs. listeners, and to what extent it was subconscious or overt.
Something we can only speculate upon because even if a musician professes to be influenced by someone they rarely say exactly how that influence was employed. Subconscious or overt is a key point here as any analysis is going to be retrospective and fogged by hindsight because recognising a possible influence in a particular piece of music does not mean that it was a direct influence.

The problem here is there weren't any directly influenced Beach Boys inspired bands for us to call upon, so all and any influence is subvert and nuanced, which makes it all very subjective and speculative. Even if we pick on the vocal harmonies (and here many late 60s and early 70s bands adopted vocal harmonies), it's difficult to say that any one band's approach to harmony can be directly attributable to any other band.

Previously you called them Art Rock but here I would reduce that specifically to my pet subject: the closely related and often overlooked pop genre of Barque Pop, (i.e. Proto-Art Rock), which for me puts them in the same echelon as The Moody Blues, Procol Harum and The Move, though none of those can be said to be influenced by them.

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Of course the band was caught between the trad. rock 'n rollers who didn't like them and were still reeling from the plane crash that killed Holly, Valens, and Richardson, and the psych trippers who snickered at their teenybopper image.   
And I think you saw that divide within the Beatles between rocker John (and to some extent Ringo) and psych George (and some extent John) with Paul in the middle with his affectionate parody Back In The USSR.
 


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Points: 65298 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2016 at 01:38
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Almost - I believe it is a predominantly retrospective appreciation. 

In 1966 singles were still the dominant format for music and while Pet Sounds is now regarded as one of the first albums to challenge that, its success (in the UK at least - it was slightly more popular in the UK than the USA) was due entirely to the success of the four Top-5 singles they released in 1966 (Barbara Ann, Sloop John B, God Only Knows and Good Vibrations). For the British record buying public Pet Sounds was just a vehicle for two of those hit singles and I posit that the cult-like status that it has now was not that profound back in 1966 (in much the same way I have previously argued that Smile's near-mythical status is a much later phenomenon that had no effect at the time) and is a retrospective assessment of the album as a stand-alone entity. The influence of the Beach Boys on British music and musicians is more to do with those four singles than any Beach Boys album and that was mostly due to the close-harmony vocals and not the musical instrumentation and arrangements. [I know this is a persnickety splitting-hairs piece of pedantry, but in 1966 albums were nowhere near as "influential" as singles - singles buoyed-up album sales].

I buy that.   It would be interesting to see their impact on musicians vs. listeners, and to what extent it was subconscious or overt.   Of course the band was caught between the trad. rock 'n rollers who didn't like them and were still reeling from the plane crash that killed Holly, Valens, and Richardson, and the psych trippers who snickered at their teenybopper image.  

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2016 at 01:20
Almost - I believe it is a predominantly retrospective appreciation. 

In 1966 singles were still the dominant format for music and while Pet Sounds is now regarded as one of the first albums to challenge that, its success (in the UK at least - it was slightly more popular in the UK than the USA) was due entirely to the success of the four Top-5 singles they released in 1966 (Barbara Ann, Sloop John B, God Only Knows and Good Vibrations). For the British record buying public Pet Sounds was just a vehicle for two of those hit singles and I posit that the cult-like status that it has now was not that profound back in 1966 (in much the same way I have previously argued that Smile's near-mythical status is a much later phenomenon that had no effect at the time) and is a retrospective assessment of the album as a stand-alone entity. The influence of the Beach Boys on British music and musicians is more to do with those four singles than any Beach Boys album and that was mostly due to the close-harmony vocals and not the musical instrumentation and arrangements. [I know this is a persnickety splitting-hairs piece of pedantry, but in 1966 albums were nowhere near as "influential" as singles - singles buoyed-up album sales].

If you look at the success of the Beach Boys in Britain you'll notice that those tracks that sold well weren't the Californian surf & hot-rod songs. Britain (and Europe) does not have a surf scene or surf music and the Beach Boys were regarded as a purely American thing and something of a novelty. While much is made now of the Beatles/Beach Boys "rivalry" (if it existed at all, and I question that it did, I think there was some mutual respect between Wilson and McCartney but not much else) then it was not a sales and/or popularity rivalry in the same way as that between Beatles and the Stones, and even if it were just artistic "rivalry" it was non-existent until the Beatles released the non-singles album Rubber Soul (which Brian Wilson has said inspired him to record Pet Sounds).

However, Barbara Ann was the break-through song for the Beach Boys that broke their surf image over here (and Good Vibrations was the culmination of that success):
Quote
24Beach BoysDance Dance DanceJan 1965 
1BeatlesTicket To RideApr 1965
27Beach BoysHelp Me RhondaJun 1965 
1BeatlesHelp!Jul 1965
26Beach BoysCalifornia GirlsSep 1965 
1BeatlesDay Tripper / We Can Work It OutDec 1965
3Beach BoysBarbara AnnFeb 1966 
2Beach BoysSloop John BApr 1966 
1BeatlesPaperback WriterJun 1966
2Beach BoysGod Only KnowsJul 1966 
1BeatlesYellow Submarine / Eleanor RigbyAug 1966
1Beach BoysGood VibrationsNov 1966 
Notice now the effect of Barbara Ann on their album chart positions from Feb 1966 onward (including the retrospective chart entry of Surfer Girl four years after its release):
Quote
1BeatlesHelp!Aug 1965 
17Beach BoysSurfin' USASep 1965 
1BeatlesRubber SoulDec 1965 
3Beach BoysBeach Boys PartyFeb 1966 
6Beach BoysBeach Boys TodayApr 1966 
2Beach BoysPet SoundsJul 1966 
4Beach BoysSummer Days (And Summer Nights!!)Jul 1966 
1BeatlesRevolverAug 1966 
2Beach BoysBest Of The Beach BoysNov 1966 
7BeatlesA Collection Of Beatles' OldiesDec 1966 
13Beach BoysSurfer GirlMar 1967 
1BeatlesSgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club BandJun 1967
3Beach BoysBest Of The Beach Boys Volume 2Oct 1967 
9Beach BoysSmiley SmileNov 1967 
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Points: 65298 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2016 at 20:38
^ We have a tiny but strong Beach Boys fanbase here, and yeah, that as well as all incarnations of Smile have been discussed extensively;  even whether the band should be added to the database.   The BBs were the crucial American art-rock band IMO, well before Zappa and deeply influential on the British.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Points: 3145 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2016 at 17:55
What are your thoughts on this Beach Boys release?Don't think I ever heard anybody talk about it on PA before. Thoughts?Big smile
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