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Big Kid Josie 
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Joined: June 23 2015
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 Posted: June 26 2015 at 09:24 |
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I hail from Alabama in the USA, which is in the heart of the South (think country and blues territory, with New Orleans and their jazz tradition 3 hours away). So, many of the bands I saw, knowing they were in blues country, would venture into it a little when they played there. I saw Jeff Beck with Jan Hammer in 76, touring with his prog/jazz-fusion band and Beck stopped halfway thru the show, let the other musicians take a break, and mock-drawled: "I hear y'all love the blues down here?", after which he played old blues tunes for about an hour. One of the best shows I saw...
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Big Kid Josie
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Posted: June 26 2015 at 09:19 |
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I bet it was! Black Moon was a pretty fresh album from them and I imagine that was the tour supporting it. Would love to hear what the highlights were for you...In 77 they opened up with this crushing monster version of the Peter Gunn song, played an extended blues jam in the middle of Fanfare and did the full Pictures. Emo still used his polyphonic moog and played two banks of keyboards with either hand. Didn't see the organ knife, though...They also did a great version of Knife Edge, Enemy God and Pirates...with no orchestra, Emo was really working to provide all the accompaniment on keyboards, as you can imagine...
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Flight123
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Posted: June 26 2015 at 09:00 |
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Anyway, I didn't get to see ELP live until 1992 - one of my treasured memories...
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Big Kid Josie
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Joined: June 23 2015
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Posted: June 26 2015 at 08:17 |
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You are absolutely correct...I was thinking that was a Ginastera piece, but it's not...I hang my head in shamed disgrace!
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Flight123
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Posted: June 26 2015 at 08:12 |
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What was the Ginastera cover on Love Beach? I thought the only cover on that was by Rodrigo ('Canario')
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Big Kid Josie
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Joined: June 23 2015
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Posted: June 26 2015 at 07:36 |
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As an aside, the only time I saw ELP live was the 77 Works I tour sans the orchestra and they were smokin'. From what I read later, the orchestra nearly broke them financially in that tour and they had to grimly soldier on as a 3-piece. They were certainly full of piss & vinegar when I saw them. So, they could still play with intensity in a live setting. It just seems to me their albums started to suffer from a lack of it...
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Big Kid Josie
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Joined: June 23 2015
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Posted: June 26 2015 at 07:30 |
I love ELP's first 6 albums up until Welcome Back, but to me they came out on fire in their debut. There was this angry, violent "we're tank treads and we're gonna grind you up!" spirit that infused their music. Check out the Barbarian, parts of Three Fates, Knife Edge, the ending of Tank after the drum break...this was aggressive prog like "Prog metal with an organ". There were the two mellow Lake songs, but even the piano improv part of Take A Pebble has this driven quality. You can see their intensity in the IOW video. Maybe it was coincidence, but that's the period where they were inspired most by Bartok, Janacek, etc.
This violent, impassioned streak was still there in Tarkus (the title track, Bitches Crystal, Time and a Place), but there were also some lackadaisical songs on side 2. It was there in parts of Pictures (Blues Variation, Gates of Kiev). Trilogy was a more mellow album and didn't seem to have this intensity, except for maybe the solo/conclusion of the title track (Not that that's bad---I love Trilogy and think bands can and should show different facets of their music in different albums.) Coincidentally, this was when the Copland tunes start to crop up.
BSS had this sense of urgency in Toccata and KE9 1st impression, but again, it wasn't maintained thru all the songs (even though that was a fine album). After their break, Works comes out with their longest Copland adaptation (Fanfare) and a lot of their intensity is gone. I do love Fanfare and Pirates, but much of Works I is noodling around. By Works II, they're covering Scott Joplin and Meade Lux Lewis...I don't see any intensity here at all. While I like the sheer diversity of Works II, it's a far, far cry from the debut.
The only song with any intensity at all on Love Beach was the Ginastera cover. I guess that's what I mean about gradual loss of urgency/intensity from the debut album onward. Whether it correlates to the classical artists they drew their inspiration from is a subjective view...
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Flight123
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Joined: September 01 2010
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Posted: June 26 2015 at 05:27 |
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I think it is because of the venom directed at ELP in the late 70s, and it has marked those of us who lived through it. I don't have it to hand, but Danny Baker's sleeve notes to the High Voltage compilation say it all...
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Tom Ozric
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Joined: September 03 2005
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Posted: June 26 2015 at 05:22 |
Four, that's right, 4 pages in and I STILL don't understand why this question even exists........ 
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NutterAlert
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Posted: June 26 2015 at 03:55 |
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You would not have seen Tony Banks on a levitating spinning piano.
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Flight123
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Posted: June 26 2015 at 03:10 |
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Just to return to the topic, ELP's Works tour did have some vitality - and urgency. The live versions of 'Pirates' (without the orchestra) is stunning but a real gem was 'The Enemy God' where Emerson brilliantly fills for the missing orchestra - 'Tank' sounded great live too (ref: Live at Nassau Colosseum).
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t d wombat
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Posted: June 25 2015 at 17:47 |
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My whoops ..... I forgot about Abacab which as a whole didn't much impress me either. Sorry ... straying off topic somewhat.
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t d wombat
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Posted: June 25 2015 at 17:31 |
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ELP were very much saddled with the post punk dinosaur label, probably more than most others. Maybe that accounts for this supposed lack of respect even amongst lovers of the Prog genre.
ref Invisible Touch .... not awful but largely irrelevent. I wish Genesis had packed it in after Genesis. Duke was an absolute ripper, had they stopped there I'd have been left wondering but the opening bars of Mama have an expired use by date on 'em and it was pretty much downhill from there. Of course there is the odd stand out track but nothing that brings out the goofy grin of musical satisfaction.
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verslibre
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Joined: July 01 2004
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Posted: June 25 2015 at 12:34 |
 Big Kid Josie wrote:
As far as the urgency of their music, it seemed like it started to fade a bit from the debut album onward |
I don't see it that way, thanks to the likes of "The Endless Enigma," "Trilogy," "Living Sin" and the triumphant "Karn Evil 9," which enjoys a long, ongoing reign as my single favorite ELP composition.
Flight123 wrote:
...and I for one, am grateful that ELP did have the grace to jack it in when they did (unlike their peers...) The ELPowell album was a credible reprise when you consider the same year Genesis put out 'Invisible Touch' and the following year Yes came up with 'Big Generator'. I know which one of those I'd rather listen to! |
The 1986 album was a solid comeback, with some great tracks in "The Miracle" and "Touch and Go." The only really "bad" track was the CD bonus track of the instrumental arrangement of "The Loco-motion." It was silly. I didn't like "The Score" when I first heard it, but it grew on me. I even like "Love Blind" and "Step Aside"! I agree about Invisible Touch, but Big Generator does have some good songs. For me, Emerson, Lake & Powell has the edge.
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Big Kid Josie
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Joined: June 23 2015
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Posted: June 25 2015 at 11:04 |
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Yeah, I thought ELPowell was a pretty good compromise between pop pressures and prog, better than those others you mention. I thought their Black Moon album in the 90's was pretty good as well. Not so much the In the Hot Seat album, though....by that time, Lake's voice was gone and Emerson's nerve problems impeding him...it's hell to grow old!
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Flight123
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Posted: June 25 2015 at 08:16 |
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...and I for one, am grateful that ELP did have the grace to jack it in when they did (unlike their peers...) The ELPowell album was a credible reprise when you consider the same year Genesis put out 'Invisible Touch' and the following year Yes came up with 'Big Generator'. I know which one of those I'd rather listen to!
I also understand the bit about changing technology but I felt Emerson had to move with the times - his peers were also updating their keyboard banks.
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Big Kid Josie
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Joined: June 23 2015
Location: USA
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Posted: June 25 2015 at 07:58 |
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Canario is hands-down the best track on Love Beach, no arguments there. As far as the urgency of their music, it seemed like it started to fade a bit from the debut album onward, especially as their interest in covering Copeland grew over the other classical composers...could've been coincidence. Another thing that hurt post-74 ELP was Emerson's infatuation with the Korg/Yamaha synths and abandoning the Hammond somewhat. His organ work was such a core part of the Nice/ELP sound. Plus the increasing record company pressure to be more "hit-oriented", same thing that messed up Yes and Genesis in the late 70's and awful 80's...
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Flight123
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Posted: June 25 2015 at 06:37 |
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That's why ELP were, and always, exciting as their music demanded attention (but what about Lake's stuff I hear you say...you know which music I am talking about). I am not sure about the drift from European classicism being part of their downfall - Ginastera's 'Toccata' (one of their most blistering interpretations) does not seem to fit this argument. Much overlooked on Love Beach is their interpretation of 'Canario', which is similarly breathless.
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rogerthat
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Posted: June 25 2015 at 05:56 |
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Yeah I would agree with that. Esp Floyd and Tull who often times embellished rock songs with more sophisticated instrumentation. Yes and Genesis experimented more with structure but often with a great pop song at the core (which made it catchy). ELP are somewhere in the middle - not as accessible as these bands and more accessible than GG or KC. That might account for the relative lack of favour for their work even on a prog forum.
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t d wombat
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Joined: August 14 2007
Location: Australia
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Posted: June 24 2015 at 23:59 |
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Don't you think that compared to ELP, Genesis/Yes/Floyd/Tull are easy listening, foot tappers ? That is not a negative remark, those bands made some of my all time favourite albums but ELP required a bit more concentration. I suppose I have three or four ELP albums, all vinyl. (ELP, Tarkus, Pictures, and Brain Salad). Interesting pieces every one of them but they don't get inside me in the same way as e.g Close to the Edge.
I'm loathe to say which is their 'best' work but Tarkus is my favourite. To my ears it is where The Nice and KC came together. Interestingly enough I'm listening to Tarkus as I type and it sounds a lot lighter than I remember so maybe all that above is nonsense.
Even so, the likes of Yes and Genesis are definitely more accessable, to my ears at least.
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Why no love for ELP?
