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Blacksword 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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 Posted: August 11 2005 at 05:30 |
I love those lyrics. It's a shame Lake doesn't sing them a bit better  , but the sentiment, the frustration strikes a chord with me.
I dont really care whether ELP, or any band for that matter are religous or not, as long as they dont try to preach at me on every track. I would find that offensive.
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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arcer
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 01 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1239
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Posted: August 11 2005 at 05:17 |
I dunno if ELP are anti-Christian but they're certainly anti-Music 
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spectral
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 04 2005
Location: Vatican City State
Status: Offline
Points: 1422
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Posted: August 11 2005 at 05:13 |
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if only all men of cloth were like Maani - your post was superb.
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"...misty halos made visible by the spectral illumination of moonshine."
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Big Ears
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 08 2005
Location: Hants, England
Status: Offline
Points: 727
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Posted: August 11 2005 at 04:55 |
I did not take the lyrics to The Only Way (Hymn) as anti-Christian - quite the reverse. This song presents a view of the world, but not necessarily the view of the group. The album story of Tarkus/Aquatarkus is dystopian, elements of which are referred to in Brain Salad Surgery, Love Beach and Black Moon.
There are, in any case, Christians who do not believe in Consubstantiation or Transubstatiation.
Jerusalem, by Parry and Blake, which is played with verve and enthusiasm on Brain Salad Surgery, is a right-wing Protestant Christian song.
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video vertigo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 17 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1930
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Posted: August 11 2005 at 02:59 |
I'm not a big ELP fan but I am a christian and I'd much rather listen to ELP anyday than 99% of CCM (cheesy christian music.)
Maani can I use your argument next time my christian friends judge my atheistic music?
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"The rock and roll business is pretty absurd, but the world of serious music is much worse." - Zappa
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Online
Points: 29474
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Posted: August 11 2005 at 02:52 |
The lyrics for the 'Only Way' are to some extent a comment on organised religion.Greg Lake was (and may still be) a 'humanist'.He once explained his views on a religious documentary series called 'Credo' and the meaning of the those lyrics.I've never seen the programme though..just heard about it.My own view of that song/hymn is that it simply tells people to go their own way and to face things on their own terms.Its a simple variation on a song subject that has been done many times in many other forms.,the most obvious one being 'My Way'.The six million jews comment is simply about the fact that fate determines a great many things including this genocide.Why look to God or religion for answers when fate decides in the end anyway? ''Man is man made'' 
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JesusBetancourt
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 15 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 262
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Posted: August 11 2005 at 02:31 |
 maani wrote:
As most members know, I am a full-time Protestant minister. I've been in Christ for over 20 years, and in the full-time ministry for three. I love ice cream, action movies, and secular - and particularly progressive - music. I don't like people who say "like" every third word, women who talk like truck drivers, and hypocrites who claim a mantle of Christianity with little understanding of the very person they claim to follow.
In short, I agree with both prog1611 and alan. But, at the risk of turning this thread into yet another "religious" discussion, I would like to add something.
"True" Christians (an admittedly loaded term) know and understand that we are not here to judge or condemn. In fact, we are strictly forbidden from doing either. Judgment and condemnation are reserved solely and exclusively to Christ on Judgment Day. We are here to live a "Christ-like" life - love, peace, forgiveness, humility, compassion, patience, charity, selflessness, service and truth. We are here to preach the Gospel and proselytize - but not to "ram it down people's throats" or judge or condemn them if they choose not to listen.
That the vast majority of mainstream, heirarchical, "organized" Christianity does not get this - that it is dangerously apostate, and often even comes across with narrow, unloving, unforgiving and ultimately un-Christian views and positions - is sad in the extreme, and is what makes "organized Christianity" its own worst enemy.
Is ELP anti-Christian? I couldn't care less. Because if they are, it is between them and God, and is not for me to judge. I can still enjoy their music, and admire and respect their talent.
Peace.
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Thank you
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"He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water"
John 7:38
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
Status: Offline
Points: 46301
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Posted: August 11 2005 at 02:10 |
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Only one song and ELP's anti-christian?I'm gonna need many more examples like that to believe...
Edited by Ricochet
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: August 11 2005 at 02:07 |
if i don't care about ELP's music, why would i care about the lyrics? 
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The Miracle
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: hell
Status: Offline
Points: 28427
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Posted: August 11 2005 at 02:04 |
I'm against christianity
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
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Posted: August 11 2005 at 01:22 |
I'm not a religious person (though I used to be when I was younger), but the way I live my life is based on respect towards my fellow people. That's way I really dislike when religious movements try to ram their beliefs down my throat or influence the laws of the State where I live. As I live in Italy, you can only imagine how difficult it can be to deal with the constant influence of the Catholic Church. However, I am not an advocate of atheism (I consider myself more of an agnostic) and I equally dislike those who have made of their atheism a form of "religion". Things are much more complicated than that.
Unfortunately, the majority of the religious people I have met in my life have not been a good advertisement for their beliefs, too often lacking that fundamental quality of empathy and understanding towards others. As my signature says, "quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand...". That said, I don't care what a musician believes (I draw the line at things like Mayhem, though), as long as he or she makes good music.
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Arteum
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 184
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Posted: August 11 2005 at 00:00 |
alan_pfeifer wrote:
Well said, prog1611. I've grown up in the
church (12 years as a lutheran, became a Methodist about 4 years ago,
funny how we christians have to divide up so much huh ?)
But I often find church a bit reliant on the technical side of things,
too worried about the lighting, not about the soul, as you said.
it pains me at times to see what Christianity has become
today. |
We should have our Church of Prog here  Too many believers here, even since the time they were unconscious.
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Arsillus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7374
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Posted: August 10 2005 at 23:54 |
maani wrote:
As most members know, I am a full-time Protestant minister. I've been in Christ for over 20 years, and in the full-time ministry for three. I love ice cream, action movies, and secular - and particularly progressive - music. I don't like people who say "like" every third word, women who talk like truck drivers, and hypocrites who claim a mantle of Christianity with little understanding of the very person they claim to follow.
In short, I agree with both prog1611 and alan. But, at the risk of turning this thread into yet another "religious" discussion, I would like to add something.
"True" Christians (an admittedly loaded term) know and understand that we are not here to judge or condemn. In fact, we are strictly forbidden from doing either. Judgment and condemnation are reserved solely and exclusively to Christ on Judgment Day. We are here to live a "Christ-like" life - love, peace, forgiveness, humility, compassion, patience, charity, selflessness, service and truth. We are here to preach the Gospel and proselytize - but not to "ram it down people's throats" or judge or condemn them if they choose not to listen.
That the vast majority of mainstream, heirarchical, "organized" Christianity does not get this - that it is dangerously apostate, and often even comes across with narrow, unloving, unforgiving and ultimately un-Christian views and positions - is sad in the extreme, and is what makes "organized Christianity" its own worst enemy.
Is ELP anti-Christian? I couldn't care less. Because if they are, it is between them and God, and is not for me to judge. I can still enjoy their music, and admire and respect their talent.
Peace.
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Geez maani...
once again, couldn't have said it better myself.
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HaroldTheBarrel
Forum Groupie
Joined: November 04 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 81
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Posted: August 10 2005 at 23:50 |
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Freddy Mercury is gay?
Oh...
alright, cool.
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Listen:
Your friends have been broken. They've told us of your poison.
Now we k now.
KILL THEM!
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NetsNJFan
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 12 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3047
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Posted: August 10 2005 at 23:43 |
maani wrote:
As most members know, I am a full-time Protestant minister. I've been in Christ for over 20 years, and in the full-time ministry for three. I love ice cream, action movies, and secular - and particularly progressive - music. I don't like people who say "like" every third word, women who talk like truck drivers, and hypocrites who claim a mantle of Christianity with little understanding of the very person they claim to follow.
In short, I agree with both prog1611 and alan. But, at the risk of turning this thread into yet another "religious" discussion, I would like to add something.
"True" Christians (an admittedly loaded term) know and understand that we are not here to judge or condemn. In fact, we are strictly forbidden from doing either. Judgment and condemnation are reserved solely and exclusively to Christ on Judgment Day. We are here to live a "Christ-like" life - love, peace, forgiveness, humility, compassion, patience, charity, selflessness, service and truth. We are here to preach the Gospel and proselytize - but not to "ram it down people's throats" or judge or condemn them if they choose not to listen.
That the vast majority of mainstream, heirarchical, "organized" Christianity does not get this - that it is dangerously apostate, and often even comes across with narrow, unloving, unforgiving and ultimately un-Christian views and positions - is sad in the extreme, and is what makes "organized Christianity" its own worst enemy.
Is ELP anti-Christian? I couldn't care less. Because if they are, it is between them and God, and is not for me to judge. I can still enjoy their music, and admire and respect their talent.
Peace.
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well said
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Arteum
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 184
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Posted: August 10 2005 at 23:34 |
maani wrote:
As most members know, I am a full-time Protestant
minister. I've been in Christ for over 20 years, and in the
full-time ministry for three. I love ice cream, action movies,
and secular - and particularly progressive - music. I don't
like people who say "like" every third word, women who talk like truck
drivers, and hypocrites who claim a mantle of Christianity with little
understanding of the very person they claim to follow.
In short, I agree with both prog1611 and alan. But, at the
risk of turning this thread into yet another "religious" discussion, I
would like to add something.
"True" Christians (an admittedly loaded term) know and understand
that we are not here to judge or condemn. In fact, we are
strictly forbidden from doing either. Judgment and condemnation
are reserved solely and exclusively to Christ on Judgment Day. We
are here to live a "Christ-like" life - love, peace, forgiveness,
humility, compassion, patience, charity, selflessness, service and
truth. We are here to preach the Gospel and proselytize - but not
to "ram it down people's throats" or judge or condemn them if they
choose not to listen.
That the vast majority of mainstream, heirarchical, "organized"
Christianity does not get this - that it is dangerously apostate, and
often even comes across with narrow, unloving, unforgiving and
ultimately un-Christian views and positions - is sad in the extreme,
and is what makes "organized Christianity" its own worst enemy.
Is ELP anti-Christian? I couldn't care less. Because if
they are, it is between them and God, and is not for me to judge.
I can still enjoy their music, and admire and respect their talent.
Peace. |
You know, Maani, your posts are always very well written, at least as
far as the style, grammar and argumentation go. And although we have
mutually disjoint philosophies of life, I feel every respect for you.
In studying human nature, I arrived at the conclusion that most people
dislike or even abhor logic. They are moved by beliefs and vague,
metaphorical statements (religion, magic, astrology, poetry ...). Religion is illogical by definition and the
atheism is based strictly on logic.
However, if everybody was fond of logic, the world would consist of
philosophers, mathematicians and theoretical physicists! Even women
would refuse to be secretaries! There would hardly be any music as the
overly logical people would be too much occupied with their formulas,
thinking and calculation. So, it turns out, because religion exists,
prog exists too. So, thank God!
Edited by Arteum
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Arteum
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 184
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Posted: August 10 2005 at 23:27 |
The Wizard wrote:
The lyrics of many ELP songs clearly are against Christianity:
People are stirred, moved by the Word
Kneel at the shrine, deceived by the wine
How was the Earth conceived, Infinite Space
Is there such a place?
You must believe in the human race
Can you believe, "God makes you breathe?"
Why did he lose six million Jews?...
Who looks on Life itself, who lights your way?
Only you can say
How can you just obey?
Don't need the Word, now that you've heard
Don't be afraid, Man is Man-made
And when the hour comes, don't turn away
Face the light of day
And do it your way...it's the only way.
The Only Way, Tarkus
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My beloved ELP I like the song about Benny even more:
Sidney grabbed a hatchet, buried it .... in Benny's head.
The people gasped as he bled:
The end of a Ted?
Well, they dragged him from the wreckage of the Palais in bits.
They tried to stick together all the bits that would fit.
But some of him was missing
and "part of him" arrived too late,
So now he works for Jesus
As the bouncer at St. Peter's Gate.
To me, as an antheist, this is very
amusing. In general, I am very pleased when prog-rock bands are
anti-religious or atheistic (which appears to be the case in most cases, I suppose) . I hope Steve Wilison is an atheist too.
Edited by Arteum
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russellk
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 28 2005
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 782
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Posted: August 10 2005 at 23:27 |
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It's important to remember that any lyric or story does not necessarily
represent the view of the author. I'm a fantasy author, but I've never killed
anyone with a sword. So while ELP's lyric might be construed as being anti-
religious, this does not mean that Emerson, Lake or Palmer are anti-
Christian. They might be, or they might not. You can't tell from the lyric.
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maani
Special Collaborator
Founding Moderator
Joined: January 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2632
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Posted: August 10 2005 at 23:02 |
As most members know, I am a full-time Protestant minister. I've been in Christ for over 20 years, and in the full-time ministry for three. I love ice cream, action movies, and secular - and particularly progressive - music. I don't like people who say "like" every third word, women who talk like truck drivers, and hypocrites who claim a mantle of Christianity with little understanding of the very person they claim to follow.
In short, I agree with both prog1611 and alan. But, at the risk of turning this thread into yet another "religious" discussion, I would like to add something.
"True" Christians (an admittedly loaded term) know and understand that we are not here to judge or condemn. In fact, we are strictly forbidden from doing either. Judgment and condemnation are reserved solely and exclusively to Christ on Judgment Day. We are here to live a "Christ-like" life - love, peace, forgiveness, humility, compassion, patience, charity, selflessness, service and truth. We are here to preach the Gospel and proselytize - but not to "ram it down people's throats" or judge or condemn them if they choose not to listen.
That the vast majority of mainstream, heirarchical, "organized" Christianity does not get this - that it is dangerously apostate, and often even comes across with narrow, unloving, unforgiving and ultimately un-Christian views and positions - is sad in the extreme, and is what makes "organized Christianity" its own worst enemy.
Is ELP anti-Christian? I couldn't care less. Because if they are, it is between them and God, and is not for me to judge. I can still enjoy their music, and admire and respect their talent.
Peace.
Edited by maani
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alan_pfeifer
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 823
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Posted: August 10 2005 at 22:25 |
Well said, prog1611. I've grown up in the church (12 years as a lutheran, became a Methodist about 4 years ago, funny how we christians have to divide up so much huh ?) But I often find church a bit reliant on the technical side of things, too worried about the lighting, not about the soul, as you said. it pains me at times to see what Christianity has become today.
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Is ELP against christianity
