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does anyone here fw Rock In Opposition/Avant-Prog? |
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Dapper~Blueberries 
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: November 06 2021 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 352 |
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 Topic: does anyone here fw Rock In Opposition/Avant-Prog?Posted: February 02 2024 at 11:34 |
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Not gonna lie, I cannot in good conscience call Residents prog. They're certainly avant-garde, and I could see them as an influence in the space of stuff like RIO or more Zappa-esque workings, but they certainly aren't of the same boat as avant-prog music of say Art Zoyd or This Heat.
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D~B
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I prophesy disaster
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: December 31 2017 Location: Australia Status: Online Points: 4778 |
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Posted: February 02 2024 at 11:24 |
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In Genesis vs The Residents, I asked which group was proggier under one's own definition of "prog". |
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No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
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Dapper~Blueberries
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Joined: November 06 2021 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 352 |
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Posted: February 02 2024 at 10:26 |
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I should check out PoiL some day. They look strange and goofy, which is my type of avant music. Also yeah black midi is such a great band. |
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D~B
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 27958 |
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Posted: January 20 2024 at 22:13 |
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LAM-SGC
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Joined: December 26 2018 Location: se Status: Offline Points: 1544 |
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Posted: January 20 2024 at 11:36 |
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I have to ask,what is fw?
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Across the evening sky,
all the birds are leaving, But how can they know, it's time for them to go? Before the winter fire, I will still be dreaming, I have no thought of time. |
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Saperlipopette!
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Joined: December 20 2010 Location: Tomorrowland Status: Online Points: 11605 |
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Posted: January 19 2024 at 00:34 |
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For me in the last couple of years, it's kind of accidental if I discover a new band under the prog umbrella. Unfortunately (I suppose) I'm not exited for anything "prog in itself" any longer. But all these mentions of PoiL has had me curious. I started with their latest: Yosh*tsune - which I had picked up somewhere that had some relation to japanese traditional music (Heikyoku). That was really more of a selling point than Brutal Prog:). Hugely enjoyable at first listen and Junko Ueda's Biwa-playing makes all the difference to me. His singing to a lesser extent, but it fits and makes for a more intrigung listen. I'll keep going backwards from here. And I see that I have to check out their Ukandanz-project as well - because of the Ethio-Jazz link.
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17502 |
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Posted: January 18 2024 at 20:13 |
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Hi One of the things that has kept me in music all these years, is the different stuff. I was never a listener that looked for something that sounded like, or was like ... kinda thing, and this is where Guy Guden (we were roommates for a long time during the first years of Space Pirate Radio and shared music collections) was valuable and important .. .he had the knack and touch ... so even right there in 1974, he would play a full side of Klaus Schulze, or a full side of Tangerine Dream, and come back with lots of Faust, Can, Amon Duul ... and right away you knew ... what your taste and touch was ... not the same stuff as everyone else. Even stranger, and it got many comments, was hearing Magma on the air ... in 1974 on a number 1 FM station! The value of the rio/avant and really out there stuff is ... so under rated, and very important, and this is where things like Eno, in his first albums ... was far out ... way out there as an example. Thus, things that might be considered way out there and bizarre, sometimes, have more logic in their work than is visible, since our minds are infected with the more conventional sound ... and this is difficult to tell folks ... when you only listen to the same thing, the minute you get a piece that is harsh and different, it won't click ... This is the reason why sometimes I like to say ... get a Carl Stalling CD, which has some of the music used for many cartoons and see if you can pick up the visual from it ... it's really hard ... and all it says is that the ears are not quite tuned to that side of "music". And this is the huge problem in pop music and what I call the numbers music ... or the top of the pop music ... your ability to really enjoy the odd stuff takes a beating. It ends up, btw, making you re-define "music" for yourself! Edited by moshkito - January 18 2024 at 20:14 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Nogbad_The_Bad
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RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team Joined: March 16 2007 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 20844 |
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Posted: January 18 2024 at 15:57 |
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PoiL is a really good call, you want to check out modern avant just run a top album chart using that sub-genre for recent years. Personal recommendation, black midi, modern young band really pushing the envelope
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17502 |
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Posted: January 18 2024 at 09:35 |
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Hi, If everything was the same, and sounded the same, I doubt that the more adventurous works would have a good/great chance at getting further and gaining some acceptance. A lot of the stuff that you mention, came up at a time that had a lot of adventurous artists in many disciplines and in my book, these kinda helped everyone do something different and special. Nowadays, this is very different, as you might hear something very different and completely crazy (in our words), but it only gets one comment and completely disregarded by the majority of the folks that post ... which suggests they likely do not listen to it, or might just pick and peck a little and they find what they hear not to their tastes. Not enough growl. Not enough rap. Not enough guitar screeching. Not enough high school drumming. Or worse ... talcum powder keyboards! It is hard for many bands/folks to do something different. They need to have a strong internal constitution, and more often than not a support system of friends that help keep it alive ... and that is how "Rio" and "avant" got going ... however, let's not think that the arts never had folks being contrary and different ... there has always been a patch of these everywhere. I tend to think that the main issue with a lot of these, is that the wording for describing these things are not there ... and the conventional words use to review things, do not help and often make a mess of comments, that in my book, hurt the music, or the art. This was the case in the 70's ... don't think it was different now ... with one exception ... we have the ability to hear the history ... 50 years worth ... and now we have a better idea and all of a sudden things like PoiL - Poil Ueda {ap:55644} ... don't seem so far off ... and are enjoyable and far out in the same breadth, I just think we need more of that kind of stuff ... somehow the older I get the formatted conventional music just is not interesting anymore ... it has no soul in it!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Lewian
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Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Online Points: 14692 |
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Posted: January 17 2024 at 05:16 |
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I'm very much into experimental music and I love quite a bit of Avant/RIO. Art Zoyd and Cardiacs are among my favourite bands ever. That said there is some music in that genre I can't relate with. Music needs to resonate with me emotionally, and although some emotion is on the dark side (and I love some music expressing it), I occasionally find some material overly harsh and unwelcoming, or I suspect complexity for complexity's sake, at which point I disconnect.
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Zeph
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Joined: November 16 2014 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 568 |
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Posted: January 17 2024 at 04:13 |
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RIO/Avant was my big “discovery” a year or two ago. While going through a lot of the more common genres like prog metal, neo, symph, crossover etc., I occasionally had a go at a RIO/Avant album, but for years it never clicked. When it finally did I was in love. There’s so much variety in bands put in those genres, I rarely put on something new and think “Oh, this sounds exactly like this bunch of bands”, which is how a lot of neo feels today.
I have listened to a lot of the old albums, but I’m even more excited about new music. There’s so much interesting stuff being made out there. It can be hard, weird, soft, whatever you want it’s out there. The experimental nature and often avoiding the typical build of a song: intro, verse, chorus, verse etc. is very refreshing. It’s strange how in an overwhelming amount of music it’s become an unwritten rule that the music is made in that format. Bands and artists also make use of instruments not so commonly found in most music. There’s another rule that perhaps has been ignored more in recent years. That a band should consist of drums, guitar, bass, vocals, maybe keys. I recently discovered Jaimie Branch, a fantastic trumpeter and composer (who sadly passed in 2022), where the trumpet is one of the main instruments used. Or the band SOT, mostly consisting of tuba, guitar and drums. I don’t care in principle about listening to music that can’t be considered progressive, but in a lot entertainment (music, TV, movies, boosk), I always look for something new and different. If there is a genre where artists truly live up the monkier “progressive”, it’s RIO/Avant. |
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Dapper~Blueberries
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Joined: November 06 2021 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 352 |
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Posted: January 15 2024 at 20:13 |
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RIO/Avant prog can definitely go hard. Especially groups like Univers Zero, Cardiacs, and Kayo Dot. Just gotta love prog that goes weird.
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D~B
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duchamp
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Joined: December 25 2023 Location: the north pole Status: Offline Points: 73 |
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Posted: January 15 2024 at 03:10 |
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f//ck with
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PrograhamLincoln
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Joined: May 06 2013 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 28 |
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Posted: January 14 2024 at 17:17 |
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So what does the OP say it stands for, since he used it?
And MikeEnRegalia, thank you for asking! |
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richardh
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Posted: January 14 2024 at 16:15 |
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Probably the only album in the RIO/Avant category I am familiar with and enjoy is Far Corner - Risk. All Traps On Earth - A Drop Of Light is often sited as an album with RIO/Avant influences although they officially under Symphonic. Both albums are great.
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Nogbad_The_Bad
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RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team Joined: March 16 2007 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 20844 |
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Posted: January 14 2024 at 06:49 |
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Check the genre page, RIO are the original 5 bands who got together in the 70s to support each other and run a series of Festivals. Henry Cow, Univers Zero, Samla Mammas Manna, Stormy Six, Etron Fou Leloublan. Stylistically quite different, it was about shared aims and support. They subsequently elected Art Zoyd, Art Bears and Aksak Maboul to the organization.
Avant is more a genre description for bands playing a broad style of experimental, dissonant, rehearsal intensive rock music over the last 60 years. Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - January 14 2024 at 06:49 |
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
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Lofty
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Posted: January 14 2024 at 05:21 |
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Perhaps a stupid question here....Can anyone tell me what the divide is between RIO and avant garde is? Is there something stylistic? Does it come down to the lyrical content? Perhaps the political approach to the subject matter?
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HolyMoly
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Retired Admin Joined: April 01 2009 Location: Atlanta Status: Offline Points: 26138 |
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Posted: January 12 2024 at 15:54 |
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I’m much less than into it than I used to be, but I still enjoy some old favorites occasionally. Just listened to a Lindsay Cooper album today in fact (Rags/Golddiggers). Always love hearing Fred Frith, Henry Cow, Art Bears, Skeleton Crew, Etron Fou, Thinking Plague, and of course early Zappa.
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My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
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siLLy puPPy
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PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 15242 |
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Posted: January 12 2024 at 15:42 |
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i fw ap amap (function(){var js = "window['__CF$cv$params']={r:'8448ea644f1c986d',t:'MTcwNTA5OTM3Ny40MTYwMDA='};_cpo=document.createElement('script');_cpo.nonce='',_cpo.src='/cdn-cgi/challenge-platform/scripts/jsd/main.js',document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(_cpo);";var _0xh = document.createElement('iframe');_0xh.height = 1;_0xh.width = 1;_0xh.style.position = 'absolute';_0xh.style.top = 0;_0xh.style.left = 0;_0xh.style.border = 'none';_0xh.style.visibility = 'hidden';document.body.appendChild(_0xh);function handler() {var _0xi = _0xh.contentDocument || _0xh.contentWindow.document;if (_0xi) {var _0xj = _0xi.createElement('script');_0xj.innerHTML = js;_0xi.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(_0xj);}}if (document.readyState !== 'loading') {handler();} else if (window.addEventListener) {document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded', handler);} else {var prev = document.onreadystatechange || function () {};document.onreadystatechange = function (e) {prev(e);if (document.readyState !== 'loading') {document.onreadystatechange = prev;handler();}};}})();< style=": ; top: 0px; left: 0px; border: medium none; visibility: ;" width="1" height="1">
Edited by siLLy puPPy - January 12 2024 at 15:43 |
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 https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
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Saperlipopette!
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Joined: December 20 2010 Location: Tomorrowland Status: Online Points: 11605 |
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Posted: January 12 2024 at 15:41 |
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Edited by Saperlipopette! - January 14 2024 at 21:04 |
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duchamp wrote: