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Vanwarp View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2005 at 07:21
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

You cannot possiby understand my musical tastes, or you would not have thought that they were confining.

I understand your statements which reflects much about your musical tastes, however confining I may find them to be... 

Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Everything has a context - it is not confining at all, but may be the exact opposite. Therefore, to state that a particular style should have a context is merely an observation of its nature, and to find something out of context is a polite way of saying that it plain doesn't work.

When stating something plainly doesn't work, that's is a clear thought that cannot be misunderstood.  It is one's own opinion about the music at hand.  It doesn't mean you're opinion is true or correct.  Much of what you consider to be out of context may be as you say, the exact opposite for others who enjoy whatever it is you found to be "out of context."  

Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Form is one of the 5 basic elements of music. To ignore it in music is akin to ignoring gravity in architecture.

Form is...form.  Where does it say (music theory) that artists (bands) should conform to certain vocal styles for to use death growls in certain particular genres and styles of music is not conforming to the 5 basic elements of music?

If that's not "confining" music to remain with certain boundaries, I don't know what is?

 

"Only sick music makes money today." Friedrich Nietzsche, German philosopher (1844 - 1900)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2005 at 04:06
Originally posted by Vanwarp Vanwarp wrote:

Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

You cannot possiby understand my musical tastes, or you would not have thought that they were confining.

I understand your statements which reflects much about your musical tastes, however confining I may find them to be... 

It reflects something about my musical tastes, that much is true.

Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Everything has a context - it is not confining at all, but may be the exact opposite. Therefore, to state that a particular style should have a context is merely an observation of its nature, and to find something out of context is a polite way of saying that it plain doesn't work.

When stating something plainly doesn't work, that's is a clear thought that cannot be misunderstood.  It is one's own opinion about the music at hand.  It doesn't mean you're opinion is true or correct.  Much of what you consider to be out of context may be as you say, the exact opposite for others who enjoy whatever it is you found to be "out of context."  

I didn't realise I was merely expressing my opinion about the music...

And I thank you for finally accepting my use of "context"

Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Form is one of the 5 basic elements of music. To ignore it in music is akin to ignoring gravity in architecture.

Form is...form.  Where does it say (music theory) that artists (bands) should conform to certain vocal styles for to use death growls in certain particular genres and styles of music is not conforming to the 5 basic elements of music?

If that's not "confining" music to remain with certain boundaries, I don't know what is?

Music has a way of "confining" itself within boundaries. It's up to composers to find those boundaries and push them in an appropriate and contextual manner.

The 5 basic elements are boundaries in themselves - you cannot write music without them. Those are the unbreakable and confining rules of music. Form is perhaps the strongest dictator of all, and certainly the hardest boundary to push at, since all the other elements must exist within it and are dictated to by form.

Music theory does not say what anyone cannot do, but it does point out what are generally held to be strong and weak methods of doing things. One can agree or disagree up to a point.

I said that I don't think the vocals work in that context - and you seem to be saying that I cannot say that, because the band can do what they like and it will always work. This would infer that you are saying that you could pick up a bunch of instruments, play any old thing for an hour on each and create a masterpiece.



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Vanwarp View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2005 at 14:24

Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Music has a way of "confining" itself within boundaries. It's up to composers to find those boundaries and push them in an appropriate and contextual manner.

Yes, but I'm afraid your definition of "appropriate contextual manner" and mine, differ considerably.

Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

I said that I don't think the vocals work in that context - and you seem to be saying that I cannot say that, because the band can do what they like and it will always work. This would infer that you are saying that you could pick up a bunch of instruments, play any old thing for an hour on each and create a masterpiece.

No, if the music does not follow the basic rules of music theory...it will or has the potential to sound extremely sh*tty - no chance for a masterpiece - I don't think so.  However, the choice of vocal styles really has nothing to do with music theory but more to do with the genre and style of music one wishes to convey.  I don't know of a better way of explaining it...the band is in a way "conforming" to a particular genre or subgenre of music.  In Epica's case it is Symphonic Goth, in this context the music and vocals do work, compare it to the other bands I mentioned and you will find common ground as well as perhaps more interesting use of orchestrations...

 



Edited by Vanwarp
"Only sick music makes money today." Friedrich Nietzsche, German philosopher (1844 - 1900)
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