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justaguy View Drop Down
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Points: 29 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2012 at 04:33
Ha, I am glad you guys didn't leave the topic yet. Talking about  Sufjan Stevens, I don't know him, but if he indeed writes a music Proletariat is describing, then why isn't he in the crossover prog as well? 
You can look at it from another point of view: if other prog music lovers think it is prog, than let it be prog. One doesn't have to be always right in his opinions.
Take them both in!  baroque pop ... hmm.., if it is is a synonymous to prog, then I fully agree. We are talking of a merging genres. think, where prog comes from. When a metal band begins to write more complex music, we will call it prog metall, right? So, if indie gets complex, should we call it prog-indie, may be? Doesn't sound right, though....
But I envy the Truth for going to his concert. I hope he will come to Holland again one day.
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Svetonio View Drop Down
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2012 at 08:04
Imo, Andrew Bird is not included in PA because these guys in the Crossover Team simply don't like his music.
That's why he's not here and there's not any other flipping reason for rejecting him.
http://www.ted.com/talks/andrew_bird_s_one_man_orchestra_of_the_imagination.html

Edited by Svetonio - February 11 2012 at 08:16
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justaguy View Drop Down
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Points: 29 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2012 at 12:00
Argh, this is a pity, if this site will keep the musicians away from the audience only with the reason of personal  liking/not liking. This leaves me with some bitter thoughts.
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harmonium.ro View Drop Down
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2012 at 12:07
^ Don't believe Svetonio, he talks crap. Liking/not liking has nothing to do with the band submissions. 
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Andy Webb View Drop Down
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Points: 13298 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2012 at 12:09
He hasn't been included in PA because he doesn't fit in PA. Ermm
The crossover team has had nothing to do with his addition. 
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Points: 3167 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2012 at 13:39
Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

I personally have to say no, I can see where you are coming from but i just don't feel like its prog... If andrew bird is prog then so is Sufjan Stevens who is also an intricate aranger who uses symphonic and experimental sounds and who writes consept albums almost exclusivly.
 
ACTUALLY... You should listen to The Age of Adz- I felt like that was prog as hell.
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Svetonio View Drop Down
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2012 at 00:09
Originally posted by justaguy justaguy wrote:

Argh, this is a pity, if this site will keep the musicians away from the audience only with the reason of personal  liking/not liking. This leaves me with some bitter thoughts.
A site can't avoid personal liking / not liking. This is impossible because Admins, SCs and Teams are human beings, they're not computers with some *What's Prog* programme.


Edited by Svetonio - February 22 2012 at 00:11
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Svetonio View Drop Down
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2012 at 00:17
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

^ Don't believe Svetonio, he talks crap. Liking/not liking has nothing to do with the band submissions. 
Harmonuim, I think about Anrew Bird's music as about, say, "modern prog", but he maybe don't know that I think the same about Sade's 80s hits LOL


Edited by Svetonio - February 22 2012 at 00:18
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Triceratopsoil View Drop Down
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Points: 18016 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2012 at 00:19
the first time I heard this it sort of reminded me of Can's "Dizzy Dizzy" for some reason



Just a lil bit


Edited by Triceratopsoil - February 22 2012 at 00:21
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harmonium.ro View Drop Down
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2012 at 06:21
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by justaguy justaguy wrote:

Argh, this is a pity, if this site will keep the musicians away from the audience only with the reason of personal  liking/not liking. This leaves me with some bitter thoughts.
A site can't avoid personal liking / not liking. This is impossible because Admins, SCs and Teams are human beings, they're not computers with some *What's Prog* programme.


Svetonio, if you have evidence that Crossover team members have denied the addition of Andrew Bird because they don't like him, please post them here.

If not, please withdraw your accusation and apologize. If not, I am considering disciplinary action.
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Marty McFly View Drop Down
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Points: 3968 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2012 at 09:21

And to address his concerns as human being - let's just say that it's not uncommon for us to make a YES vote for music we personally don't like, but think it is a Crossover, or otherwise - to say NO for music we like (or in some cases even love).

It's an effort to be objective you know.
There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2012 at 11:33
Originally posted by Marty McFly Marty McFly wrote:

And to address his concerns as human being - let's just say that it's not uncommon for us to make a YES vote for music we personally don't like, but think it is a Crossover, or otherwise - to say NO for music we like (or in some cases even love).

It's an effort to be objective you know.

I know what you're saying. However. I think on sites such as these, were everyone knows the team members and (from their reviews etc) knows what they like and don't like, there is greater transparency. I.E. people know that a member doesn't like singer-songwriter music for example, therefore if they regularly vote "no" to singer-songwriter suggestions this will be very obvious to others, and rather than throw unfounded wild accusations around, there will be substantiated proof of such mis-voting. Therefore there is a good chance that the team member will subconsciously overcompensate and vote "Yes" to singer-songwriter more than normal.
What?
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Svetonio View Drop Down
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2012 at 20:43
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by justaguy justaguy wrote:

Argh, this is a pity, if this site will keep the musicians away from the audience only with the reason of personal  liking/not liking. This leaves me with some bitter thoughts.
A site can't avoid personal liking / not liking. This is impossible because Admins, SCs and Teams are human beings, they're not computers with some *What's Prog* programme.


Svetonio, if you have evidence that Crossover team members have denied the addition of Andrew Bird because they don't like him, please post them here.

If not, please withdraw your accusation and apologize. If not, I am considering disciplinary action.
I don't have an evidence that Crossover Team have denied the addition of mr. Bird because they don't like his music.
Please accept my apology.


Edited by Svetonio - February 22 2012 at 23:19
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harmonium.ro View Drop Down
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 23 2012 at 09:48
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Evolver View Drop Down
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Points: 5482 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 23 2012 at 11:38
Thanks for your apology, Svetonio.  I truly appreciate it.
 
I know for a fact that we, in the crossover team, have approved many artists that some or all of us don't like.  I know we never use that as criteria.  What does occur is that in most cases where we vote no, each member provides a reason for the vote.  We also often reject bands that we like for not being progressive.  It works both ways.
 
As far as Andrew Bird, we have not evaluated his music.
 
On the flip side of the issue, most members are not privy to the discussions that go on in between collaborators, and have no way of knowing why a band was accepted or rejected.  And while I don't like an accusation as was posted here, personally I am thick skinned enough to let it go, and I would not want to see any action taken against a member for such a thing unless it escalates.
 
If any member wants to question me on any decision of a team that I am on, they are always welcome to contact me.
Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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justaguy View Drop Down
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Points: 29 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2012 at 12:06
Hi, meanwhile, there is a new album from Andrew Bird coming out. Lets see how it is. By the way, on Noble Beast, the whole second disk of the deluxe edition is an instrumental music. A pure prog, if you ask me. even a little avantguarde. You can call me a tram if you call this disc pop.
From the last post of evolver, I read this: "As far as Andrew Bird, we have not evaluated his music."
So, it appears, you didn't evaluate his music. May be, it will be a good idea to to it :-)?????
 
 
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EvilNight View Drop Down
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Points: 10 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2012 at 01:17
I was just listening to Bird on a SWSX live stream, he tickled my prog senses so I immediately came over here to see if he was listed and what albums to check out. He should definitely be evaluated for inclusion. If Penguin Cafe Orchestra is Crossover, then so is Andrew Bird. :)
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infocat View Drop Down
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Points: 4671 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2012 at 20:34
Anyone else see Andrew Bird on the Colbert Report this week?
Seemed fairly decent.  I'd never heard of him before seeing this thread.
--
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Belief is not Truth.
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The Truth View Drop Down
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Points: 21795 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2012 at 21:00
Still stoked for his concert on the 23rd. Especially after the new record, check this out:
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The Truth View Drop Down
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Points: 21795 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2012 at 21:01
Originally posted by EvilNight EvilNight wrote:

I was just listening to Bird on a SWSX live stream, he tickled my prog senses so I immediately came over here to see if he was listed and what albums to check out. He should definitely be evaluated for inclusion. If Penguin Cafe Orchestra is Crossover, then so is Andrew Bird. :)


That's not a very good argument, they sound nothing alike.

PCO is more avant than Bird but Andrew still meets crossover requirements IMO.

But still, quit bumping this thread guys. TongueWink
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