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VOTOMS 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 18 2013
Location: KOBAIA
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Points: 1420
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 Posted: September 17 2013 at 16:21 |
You won 
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: September 17 2013 at 16:24 |
 Logan wrote:
^^ Ignorant, maybe, but it's not a really stupid notion, I would think (could understand why someone would think that).
Quite a few Irish hate Brits, but I haven't noticed it the other way around (although of course there has been much anti Irish extremism sentiments, but then most don't like extremists). |
Yes, you are right. I reacted in anger. Not stupid, just extremely ignorant.
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What?
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Chris S
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028
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Posted: September 17 2013 at 16:29 |
VOTOMS wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
VOTOMS wrote:
The point is: Wish you were here and Dark side would be better albums without the boring hype |
Why is that? To me, an album's greatness (or suckiness) lies in listening, not in hype. Or is because you wish these albums were not hyped so that you can bemoan their lack of critical consideration and loudly proclaim that they are sadly underrated and should reach a wider audience?
I'm not implying this is the case for you, but many posters on PA seem to equate acclaim and success as negatives against a band or a release, as if selling millions of albums is a black spot on a résumé. Only empty arenas and anonymity confer greatness, I guess.
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People talking about the same thing all the time sucks. Sometimes make you expecting moar, and when you finally listen to the album, you were expecting so more that it sounds standard. |
You see, this is an important point. If you were not around in the 70's........ another analogy is people raving about a movie like Pacific Rim so when I finally got to see it I was disappointed, especially with Del Torro doing the directing. The problem here the movie is crap from a director who thankfully walked away from The Hobbit but did the epic Pan's Labyrinth.I mean wtf?
Watch Floyd in Pompeii the original ( not director's cut or modern day bonus track crap) just the original movie where you see PF actually laying down tracks and experimenting for DSOTM material ( On The Run) springs to mind. You reallize then that they were light years ahead of most bands and they never released crap either 
So maybe some off you guys who don't get DSOTM or NC enjoyed Pacific Rim and watched it on your iPhone and you have only seen vinyl in movies or at a Scrillex gig.
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: September 17 2013 at 16:54 |
Chris S wrote:
VOTOMS wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
VOTOMS wrote:
The point is: Wish you were here and Dark side would be better albums without the boring hype |
Why is that? To me, an album's greatness (or suckiness) lies in listening, not in hype. Or is because you wish these albums were not hyped so that you can bemoan their lack of critical consideration and loudly proclaim that they are sadly underrated and should reach a wider audience?
I'm not implying this is the case for you, but many posters on PA seem to equate acclaim and success as negatives against a band or a release, as if selling millions of albums is a black spot on a résumé. Only empty arenas and anonymity confer greatness, I guess.
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People talking about the same thing all the time sucks. Sometimes make you expecting moar, and when you finally listen to the album, you were expecting so more that it sounds standard. |
You see, this is an important point. If you were not around in the 70's........ another analogy is people raving about a movie like Pacific Rim so when I finally got to see it I was disappointed, especially with Del Torro doing the directing. The problem here the movie is crap from a director who thankfully walked away from The Hobbit but did the epic Pan's Labyrinth.I mean wtf?
Watch Floyd in Pompeii the original ( not director's cut or modern day bonus track crap) just the original movie where you see PF actually laying down tracks and experimenting for DSOTM material ( On The Run) springs to mind. You reallize then that they were light years ahead of most bands and they never released crap either
So maybe some off you guys who don't get DSOTM or NC enjoyed Pacific Rim and watched it on your iPhone and you have only seen vinyl in movies or at a Scrillex gig. |
Absolutely. I do wonder the ages of the people who think these highly rated albums are overrated, were they around in the 70s? Did they buy the albums on the day they were released? Did they grow up with these albums? Or are they something they streamed once or twice from Spottiface?
One thing I just cannot get my head around is this idea that you can dislike a record because you've heard it too much, moreover, that any Prog album (though specifically DSotM) can suffer from being played on the Radio "all the time". Not liking it because it is too popular I understand, that kind of trendy hipster elitism is common place and somewhat *yawn* tiresome, but it happens.
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What?
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VOTOMS
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 18 2013
Location: KOBAIA
Status: Offline
Points: 1420
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Posted: September 17 2013 at 17:05 |
Chris S wrote:
VOTOMS wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
VOTOMS wrote:
The point is: Wish you were here and Dark side would be better albums without the boring hype |
Why is that? To me, an album's greatness (or suckiness) lies in listening, not in hype. Or is because you wish these albums were not hyped so that you can bemoan their lack of critical consideration and loudly proclaim that they are sadly underrated and should reach a wider audience?
I'm not implying this is the case for you, but many posters on PA seem to equate acclaim and success as negatives against a band or a release, as if selling millions of albums is a black spot on a résumé. Only empty arenas and anonymity confer greatness, I guess.
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People talking about the same thing all the time sucks. Sometimes make you expecting moar, and when you finally listen to the album, you were expecting so more that it sounds standard. |
You see, this is an important point. If you were not around in the 70's........ another analogy is people raving about a movie like Pacific Rim so when I finally got to see it I was disappointed, especially with Del Torro doing the directing. The problem here the movie is crap from a director who thankfully walked away from The Hobbit but did the epic Pan's Labyrinth.I mean wtf?
Watch Floyd in Pompeii the original ( not director's cut or modern day bonus track crap) just the original movie where you see PF actually laying down tracks and experimenting for DSOTM material ( On The Run) springs to mind. You reallize then that they were light years ahead of most bands and they never released crap either
So maybe some off you guys who don't get DSOTM or NC enjoyed Pacific Rim and watched it on your iPhone and you have only seen vinyl in movies or at a Scrillex gig. |
Sometimes I still listen to DSOTM, but really, Animals is far better IMO, is perfect. But I agreed with your point too.
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Luna
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 28 2010
Location: Funky Town
Status: Offline
Points: 12794
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Posted: September 17 2013 at 17:06 |
Dean wrote:
Luna wrote:
I thought Brits hated the Irish? |
Never. f**king stupid and extremely ignorant comment. |
ok
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Luna
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 28 2010
Location: Funky Town
Status: Offline
Points: 12794
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Posted: September 17 2013 at 17:09 |
Logan wrote:
^^ Ignorant, maybe, but it's not a really stupid notion, I would think (could understand why someone would think that).
Quite a few Irish hate Brits, but I haven't noticed it the other way around (although of course there has been much anti Irish extremism sentiments, but then most don't like extremists).
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Yeah, kind of assumed it was the case because of the whole Catholic vs. Anglican church action that went on in the 80s and 90s. I suppose it's completely ignorant to infer that Brits would hate people who try to blow up their government.
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Chris S
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028
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Posted: September 17 2013 at 17:35 |
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^ wrong thread for this type of discussion
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: September 17 2013 at 17:37 |
Luna wrote:
Logan wrote:
^^ Ignorant, maybe, but it's not a really stupid notion, I would think (could understand why someone would think that).
Quite a few Irish hate Brits, but I haven't noticed it the other way around (although of course there has been much anti Irish extremism sentiments, but then most don't like extremists). |
Yeah, kind of assumed it was the case because of the whole Catholic vs. Anglican church action that went on in the 80s and 90s. I suppose it's completely ignorant to infer that Brits would hate people who try to blow up their government. |
Yup. Completely ignorant.
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What?
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Luna
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 28 2010
Location: Funky Town
Status: Offline
Points: 12794
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Posted: September 17 2013 at 17:40 |
Dean wrote:
Luna wrote:
Logan wrote:
^^ Ignorant, maybe, but it's not a really stupid notion, I would think (could understand why someone would think that).
Quite a few Irish hate Brits, but I haven't noticed it the other way around (although of course there has been much anti Irish extremism sentiments, but then most don't like extremists). |
Yeah, kind of assumed it was the case because of the whole Catholic vs. Anglican church action that went on in the 80s and 90s. I suppose it's completely ignorant to infer that Brits would hate people who try to blow up their government. |
Yup. Completely ignorant. |
I do not (or have any desire to) live in England.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: September 17 2013 at 17:42 |
Luna wrote:
Dean wrote:
Luna wrote:
Logan wrote:
^^ Ignorant, maybe, but it's not a really stupid notion, I would think (could understand why someone would think that).
Quite a few Irish hate Brits, but I haven't noticed it the other way around (although of course there has been much anti Irish extremism sentiments, but then most don't like extremists). |
Yeah, kind of assumed it was the case because of the whole Catholic vs. Anglican church action that went on in the 80s and 90s. I suppose it's completely ignorant to infer that Brits would hate people who try to blow up their government. |
Yup. Completely ignorant. |
I do not (or have any desire to) live in England. |
So? Ignorance of a situation does not entitle you to make ignorant comments.
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What?
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2005
Location: Lilliwaup, Wa.
Status: Offline
Points: 5319
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Posted: September 17 2013 at 17:43 |
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Antarctica is over rated too, just my opinion
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Luna
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 28 2010
Location: Funky Town
Status: Offline
Points: 12794
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Posted: September 17 2013 at 17:46 |
Dean wrote:
Luna wrote:
Dean wrote:
Luna wrote:
Logan wrote:
^^ Ignorant, maybe, but it's not a really stupid notion, I would think (could understand why someone would think that).
Quite a few Irish hate Brits, but I haven't noticed it the other way around (although of course there has been much anti Irish extremism sentiments, but then most don't like extremists). |
Yeah, kind of assumed it was the case because of the whole Catholic vs. Anglican church action that went on in the 80s and 90s. I suppose it's completely ignorant to infer that Brits would hate people who try to blow up their government. |
Yup. Completely ignorant. |
I do not (or have any desire to) live in England. |
So? Ignorance of a situation does not entitle you to make ignorant comments. |
I would appreciate if you could explain to me how you see my comment as ignorant (and not simply incorrect).
Again, I have explained why I would assume this while you're just giving me "you're an incorrect Yankee t**t" without much else.
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Chris S
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028
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Posted: September 17 2013 at 18:06 |
Dean wrote:
One thing I just cannot get my head around is this idea that you can dislike a record because you've heard it too much, moreover, that any Prog album (though specifically DSotM) can suffer from being played on the Radio "all the time". Not liking it because it is too popular I understand, that kind of trendy hipster elitism is common place and somewhat *yawn* tiresome, but it happens. |
Maybe some songs like Stairway To Heaven, Bohemian Rhapsody, Another Brick In The Wall, Money from DSOTM. It does not detract from their greatness I guess they have received much more airplay than the rest of the albums. The problem now in past albums getting overrated tags is because we have the likes of Spottiface  Pandora, Apple- Genius list, , smart phones, You Tube etc etc. The problem is we have a throw away consumer based randomization of everything so it is all short lived and on shuffle, shuffle, shuffle. People naturally from this era who dont know what a vinyl record looks like or waits up 72 hours to be first in the queue for the new Apple iphone ( their old one is only 9 months old on a 24 month contract), judge songs on a 20sec snapshot can only relate to this. Maybe CD's form part of their catalogue. I am not saying this is bad, it is just the way it is. As Roger Water's sang ' What is the shelf life of a color TV?"....well f*&king centuries compared to a new smartphones and the apps. So nowadays most artists don't stand a chance in hell( new and old) and well for those of us who grew up in the 60's, 70's and even the first half of the 80's where we had mediums such as vinyl, radio and maybe 8 track.....well, I think we can safely say we were truly blessed.And we had long attention spans. Listen to " Any Colour You Like" from DSOTM without iphones, TV etc, no interruptions...nuff said
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13227
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Posted: September 17 2013 at 18:15 |
timothy leary wrote:
Antarctica is over rated too, just my opinion |
I disagree. I believe it is underrated. Being so far south and all.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: September 17 2013 at 20:24 |
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It's important to note that DSOTM is NOT a product of hype. Rather, it is the album that made the hype, the album that made PF a blockbuster success. Though I was not around in the 70s, this aspect comes through in the Pompeii video or TV programmes made on DSOTM. It might seem today to some people that hype is the only thing going for DSOTM vis a vis some obscure, 'criminally underrated' prog rock band but a lot of people obviously liked the album at that time.
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verslibre
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 01 2004
Location: CA
Status: Offline
Points: 18563
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Posted: September 17 2013 at 21:18 |
timothy leary wrote:
Antarctica is over rated too, just my opinion |
By Vangelis? I think it's underrated, myself. 
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: September 18 2013 at 01:46 |
Luna wrote:
Dean wrote:
Luna wrote:
Dean wrote:
Luna wrote:
Logan wrote:
^^ Ignorant, maybe, but it's not a really stupid notion, I would think (could understand why someone would think that).
Quite a few Irish hate Brits, but I haven't noticed it the other way around (although of course there has been much anti Irish extremism sentiments, but then most don't like extremists). |
Yeah, kind of assumed it was the case because of the whole Catholic vs. Anglican church action that went on in the 80s and 90s. I suppose it's completely ignorant to infer that Brits would hate people who try to blow up their government. |
Yup. Completely ignorant. |
I do not (or have any desire to) live in England. |
So? Ignorance of a situation does not entitle you to make ignorant comments. |
I would appreciate if you could explain to me how you see my comment as ignorant (and not simply incorrect).
Again, I have explained why I would assume this while you're just giving me "you're an incorrect Yankee t**t" without much else. |
That's the problem - assumptions not facts. Did I ever call you a "Yankee"? Did I ever refer to your nationality? Slurring a whole nation as being racist is not "simply incorrect". The statememt was incorrect, the reason why it was incorrect is lack of knowledge, the word for that is ignorance, an incorrect comment born out of ignorance is an ignorant comment.
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What?
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progbethyname
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 30 2012
Location: HiFi Headmania
Status: Offline
Points: 7865
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Posted: September 18 2013 at 08:57 |
moshkito wrote:
Dean wrote:
...
These albums are rated exactly as they are rated - they are appreciate by those that like them exactly as they should be appreciated. Family are a f_cking marvellous band, much loved by those of us who knew their music back in the day - and yes it would have been wonderful if more people got to hear them back in the 60s and 70s, it would have been brilliant if they'd been successful in the USA, and it would be simply adorable if more people could like them now - but history didn't happen like that and life doesn't happen like that. BUT they were well known and pretty popular in Britain in the late 60s / early 70s, Roger Chapman's vocal style influenced Peter Gabriel, Ian Anderson, Ian Gillan and Fish and they even managed to chart a couple of albums and some four or five singles, which is a damn fine achievement for such an "underrated" band... they just never recorded that one killer album. And the whole music industry is littered with bands like that, almost as many as all the bedroom funsters you can find on Bandcamp in a week. The real irony is that if somehow Family had managed to produce that breakthrough killer album that was as good as all the good bits from Doll House, Enterainment, Anyway, A Song For Me and Fearless - and that had sold millions and everyone on the planet had a copy in their iTunes iCloud iPhat and Charlie Whitney would be wondering where to park his fifteenth Lambourgini - all the little prog-trollies would be saying it's "overrated".
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Thank you ... and so are the follow up STREETWALKERS ... and then the folow ups by Chappo ... and Hyenas Only Laugh for Fun ... is a great album as well with some outstanding guitar work, too!
Their last 3 albums as "Family" are some of my favorite rock albums and I have never gotten tired of them, same with Groundhogs "Crosscut Saw" and "Black Diamond" .... (what an appropriate and great album name!)
NP: Chili Con Carne (Live) and then the album's version! ... maybe Gypsy Moon after that!
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Wow. I don't think I've ever heard Dean speak this passionately about a band before.  I dig the passion!
I'll have to check out this 'Family' band. 
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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irrelevant
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 07 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 13382
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Posted: September 18 2013 at 08:58 |
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^ They're very, very good. Still need to hear the first three albums though. Fearless is my fave so far.
Edited by irrelevant - September 18 2013 at 08:59
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