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zumacraig View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Prog and the state of the music business
    Posted: December 10 2011 at 08:17
hey friends,

been lurking for years, finally registered.  i've been fascinated and concerned with the music business and the digital revolution over the last 10 years.  mp3's, pirating, deluxe editions, etc.  personally,  what i find interesting is that the prog scene hasn't been hit to hard by all this turmoil.  prog fans like physical product (and lots of it) so the artists we love can make a living off selling CDs.  this is in contrast to the indie and corp. scene that has all but imploded as a result of pirating and the need to play live to make money.  any thoughts?  i'm thinking in particular of artists like roine stolt and neal morse.  they keep putting stuff out every 6 months because we will buy it.  neal doesn't even play live that much.  anyway, wondered what y'all thought :-)

c
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 09:21
I think it's true that prog fans like to 'collect' albums, complete with packaging, but the MP3 revolution is a very welcome development in my opinion.

I still buy CD's, although I'm not on the bandwagon of having to own every re-edition or re-master of every album by my favourite bands. But, when I buy CD's they get ripped to my Itunes immediately, and I listen from there. I only play the CD's in my car.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 09:32
I love the digital revolution, especially since there are no decent record stores about any more. I just download from amazon, rip to a blank CD and my MP3 player, and off I go.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 09:38
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

I love the digital revolution, especially since there are no decent record stores about any more. I just download from amazon, rip to a blank CD and my MP3 player, and off I go.

Yeah, the demise of the physical stores is a loss but at the same time the ability to get stuff that wouldn't have been stocked at those places has been enhanced.  I still have difficulties with the pay to download as it now exists.  I don't mind making my own hard copy or transferring it into my computers and players.  I don't even mind having to print out my own cover or booklet art too much.

Sometimes it seems the portability that we have these days isn't fully appreciated by some.


Edited by Slartibartfast - December 10 2011 at 09:40
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 11:42
It's a double-edged advancement. The convenience is nice, but the sentiment of going to the record shop is gone.

It's just so much easier to surf itunes or amazon and find a great new band instead of paying for a whole album and getting burned. There's about 1-2 fantastic bands for every 5-10 bands that should never have gotten a recording contract.
It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 12:29
There are no more decent record shops because there has been the bloody digital revolution....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 12:39
Long story short I am a supporter of the "revolution" and maybe...(though in my opinion not terrible) it would impact some older/established artists, but  newer or upcoming prog artists benefit greatly in my eyes. It's easier to get your name out there, and if you choose to DIY that means you are not restrained by pressures. Pressures to make a hit and all that.

Also if you DIY that means even if you charge less than the standard for album...you still get more money since you dont have to pay others.
I see it as a good thing for music and especially prog, and I would agree the prog fanbase is more inclined to buy CDs/collect so there is still that.

edit: I am upset at the slow extinction of the local record store, mine seems to support itself on air because there is no one ever there, but while this isn't a popular answer (even for me) that's progress.....and you can't stop progress.
Especially when it is best for the hundreds of millions of music fans out there.


Edited by JJLehto - December 10 2011 at 12:40
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 13:17
Back when you had to go to the record store, it was very hard to get prog, expt for the top selling names (floyd yes genesis jethro tull ect.) Im from small Denmark
When i started collection King Crims (about 76-77) took me 10 years or so to get them all.
Offcourse that was also fun, but remember KC is by far unknown, with less known acts, you had to be very luck'i.
Today i can by my music from online stores, having access to almost everything.   
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 15:23
I still do not like mere downloads - I am 51 and definitely like to have something in my hands even though the important thing is the music itself.  Nor do I care to jump on the re-release bandwagon.  I will buy if it is something I do not already have or if the price is really low.  And since I buy a lot of older recordings, that is a distinct possibility.
 
Fortunately, there are still a few good record stores in my town, but they are not that reliable when it comes to Prog.  Still, I can almost always find something of interest.  And I can special order almost anything.  There are also a couple of mail order outfits I go to.
 
Despite how it may sound here, I think the digital revolution to be progress - it enables more artists to produce their music less expensively.  The risk there is, of course, that there are fewer checks and balances to help guarantee quality.  For the most part, though, I have not found this to be a problem.
 
It seems to me that the brick and mortar store fell to the wayside due to digital downloads.  The biggest blow there was the demise of Tower Records, one of the giants of the industry, and since I live in their hometown, their flagship store was not too far away from me.  Cry  This particular store was second only to famous Sunset Blvd. store where big stars often came in after hours and shopped away.  I think Bruce Willis set the record for spending $30,000 in one night.  I think a lot of us on this site could do that too if we had the money.  I know I could. Approve
The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 16:41
Mp3s are nice and convenient for songs, not albums. And for prog, albums define a band not a song. Therefore I love the cd or vinyl. There's something about the physicality of them. You can touch them, feel them, smell them, and read along with the lyrics. Some artists do a fantastic job with the lyric booklets as well. I am someone that buys a lot of Morse since he's my favorite. He packages stuff very well and all his booklets are awesome, filled with pictures, notes, lyrics that are in cool fonts, and such ha ha. I mean yeah I rip them to my computer and put them on my sony walkman, but I still enjoy the physical cd. And recently I got into vinyls which I've grown to love. This is dorky, but I love taking them out of the giant sleeve in a giant case. Then put the needle on it and watch it spin. It's part of the whole experience. Plus the sound quality is so organic. It's vintage.
Sure I like to buy an mp3 here or there of some song or something. I sometimes get mp3 albums (but not often). But I will always support the physical any day. And used cds are always cheap.  Or I buy from the artist or record company site giving them 100% support.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 16:43
But the revolution has had advantages and brought many artists into the light. I will say that. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 18:42
my main point was that lots of pop/rock artists have to play live to make money because no one buys music anymore. the 'good' prog bands can still make money selling CDs.  

i always wonder how these guys do it.  i mean, does neal mores have a day job?

i'm down with the digital revolution.  i still like physical product though...liner notes, art, etc.  one thing i am concerned about is with all these reissues and new releases is the loudness wars.

thanks for the comments.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 19:42
Originally posted by AlexDOM AlexDOM wrote:

Mp3s are nice and convenient for songs, not albums. And for prog, albums define a band not a song. Therefore I love the cd or vinyl. There's something about the physicality of them. You can touch them, feel them, smell them, and read along with the lyrics. Some artists do a fantastic job with the lyric booklets as well. I am someone that buys a lot of Morse since he's my favorite. He packages stuff very well and all his booklets are awesome, filled with pictures, notes, lyrics that are in cool fonts, and such ha ha. I mean yeah I rip them to my computer and put them on my sony walkman, but I still enjoy the physical cd. And recently I got into vinyls which I've grown to love. This is dorky, but I love taking them out of the giant sleeve in a giant case. Then put the needle on it and watch it spin. It's part of the whole experience. Plus the sound quality is so organic. It's vintage.
Sure I like to buy an mp3 here or there of some song or something. I sometimes get mp3 albums (but not often). But I will always support the physical any day. And used cds are always cheap.  Or I buy from the artist or record company site giving them 100% support.
Totally agree with you. I'm a vinyl fan and I usually buy music in this format. LPs (and CDs) are much better, i mean the sound quality, the packaging, the cover art in front of you and so on. With mp3s it's all faster and easier, but I usually use them to discover new artists
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2011 at 22:52

What's interesting to see is the prog bands that jump to bigger labels after some time such as Dream Theater, Opeth, Between The Buried and Me just to name a few. Its good in some ways and bad in others, moe exposure for some yet a change in style or lack of innovation in others.

I don't mind mp3's, when I download though I look for high quality lossless, I stil buy cds and copy them on to Ipod in uncompressed format.
" Men are not prisoners of fate, but prisoners of their own minds." - FDR
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2011 at 09:35
I've always bought, and will always buy CD's. I would buy Vinyl, but I don't have record player. Hopefully I get one soon. I don't really like downloading because I like to have actual,physical copies of my music. Plus CD's come with the album cover art,lyrics, liner notes, photos and a poster if your lucky!Thumbs Up Also the quality of sound from a CD is much better then a file from the internet.

Edited by Fox On The Rocks - December 11 2011 at 09:36
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2011 at 09:38
Originally posted by AlexDOM AlexDOM wrote:

Mp3s are nice and convenient for songs, not albums. And for prog, albums define a band not a song. Therefore I love the cd or vinyl. There's something about the physicality of them. You can touch them, feel them, smell them, and read along with the lyrics. Some artists do a fantastic job with the lyric booklets as well. I am someone that buys a lot of Morse since he's my favorite. He packages stuff very well and all his booklets are awesome, filled with pictures, notes, lyrics that are in cool fonts, and such ha ha. I mean yeah I rip them to my computer and put them on my sony walkman, but I still enjoy the physical cd. And recently I got into vinyls which I've grown to love. This is dorky, but I love taking them out of the giant sleeve in a giant case. Then put the needle on it and watch it spin. It's part of the whole experience. Plus the sound quality is so organic. It's vintage.
Sure I like to buy an mp3 here or there of some song or something. I sometimes get mp3 albums (but not often). But I will always support the physical any day. And used cds are always cheap.  Or I buy from the artist or record company site giving them 100% support.
Totally agree as well.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2011 at 09:57
Profit and worldwide marketing with it's internal destruction caused misfortune for the future of progressive rock. Due to the moronic move the industry took to close the doors on it completely. It was promoted selectively by promoting prog bands like Jethro Tull and Yes who were signed to huge internationally known record labels. Bands like Gong, Guru, Guru, Amon Duul II, were signed to labels that were subdivisions of the larger ones. All or most of their domestic releases ended up in the bargain bins for a $1.99
This prog audience of today is a devoted one. There are cities in the U.S. were this so called prog following dominates the music scene. The bands played Nearfest and several other gatherings over the years which is positive input. However something is dead wrong with this picture when a prog vendor/promoter can't possibly make any profit for himself. When the promoter is only making enough money to pay the bands, the fan should feel lucky. Not a very long list of people in general would gamble on something that is business wise....a mouse trap. This whole entrie circus of events I find unjust.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2011 at 14:38
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

I love the digital revolution, especially since there are no decent record stores about any more. I just download from amazon, rip to a blank CD and my MP3 player, and off I go.


Don't forget the free releases! Some of them even have booklets in pdf or jpeg format.
"Prog is Not Dead and never has been." (Will Sergeant, from Echo And The Bunnymen)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2011 at 14:40
Originally posted by tupan tupan wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

I love the digital revolution, especially since there are no decent record stores about any more. I just download from amazon, rip to a blank CD and my MP3 player, and off I go.


Don't forget the free releases! Some of them even have booklets in pdf or jpeg format.

Thumbs Up

And you, my friend, have done more than most to alert us to these goodies!!
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Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2011 at 15:10
^Embarrassed

I think the "fan devotion" thing also applicates to the free releases. The prog bands create a solid fanbase with their free offerings too, and many of them download and REALLY buy a physical copy later, or even donate. But, the lesser known bands still needs gig everytime to make some profit.
"Prog is Not Dead and never has been." (Will Sergeant, from Echo And The Bunnymen)
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