Yes’ Topographic Oceans - The debate

Yes' Tales from Topographic Oceans must be one of the most debated Lps in prog history. Is it a meisterwerk? Is it an exercise in padding? Is the  Ancient really that Bad? (Yes!) Did it ultimately force their best talent (wakeman) out?

Often seen as the pinnacle of Prog Excess by the detractors - I was just wondering what other people's thoughts were on this OPUS? To me Tales certainly isn't Yes' best LP? (Relayer is!)but it isn't there worst either. (Talk is). I think it operates as a sort of yes' White Album - could it live without Ancient and Remebering musically?? - but of course part of its pleasure was the overlying four-part concept of the Shastric scriptures, its very epic- quality.  And it does have that sense of Homeric epic-ness about it - it's like The Lamb by Genesis, like settling in for a long journey at the start of Side One. But ultimately I think its padded out by some lazy recycling of leit-motifs, and unispired playing, unlikely The White Album which is very varied and full of in your face incongruity. Wakeman in particular is absent a lot of the time, just providing synth washes a lot of the time - and even his solos are uninspired compared to his best - even on the standout tracks 1 and 4. I also think production wise it lacks the vibrancy of Close to the Edge and Relayer (a beautiful, brittle coldness). Stories of them getting cardboard cut out animals shows there ego's were starting to show a bit.

And yet - something inside of me wants to champion Tales despite all its flaws. It does have some peaks - few though they are - Squire's work on Ritual (as good as his work on Relayer)Steve's guitar shines thru on Side one - the vocal intro - one of the most loved Yes pieces of music in their canon. I just don't think it would have worked with just Side One and Four as a single LP - and stands as a "great failure" rather than a "muted success". Last time I saw Yes at Liverpool I was spellbound - I'd seen them on the Union tour, ABWH, and a few times since - but this last time was special - the set list was perfection - THREE EPICS!!! Ritual, Gates and Close to the Edge - and the symphony orchestra backing - OK Wakeman wasn't on this line-up but it was a minor quibble when presented with Gates!!!

Anyone got any views on this?

I prefer their other works - Topographic Oceans just doesn't have that spark, and frankly I find most of it pretty boring compared to CTTE or Relayer, even the Yes Album. I still dont understand why Wakeman left when all he did was go on to produce prog fodder of a similar ilk.  Perhaps his ego needed a boost.  I'm sure he said he'd achieved everything he could with Yes and wanted to move on, but that was clearly rubbish, as he returned two years later for what in my opinion was their best work 'Going For The One' and then their worst 'Tormato', which were two new extremes of brilliance and mediocrity  

Disclaimer:

The opinions expressed are those of the author (me), and they are not intended, in any way, to denigrate the Yes fan club or lovers of the Tormato album.  I salute you all

On the plus side, it does contain some superb passages of Yesmusic (mainly on Disc 1)

On the minus side, it is frequently rambling and incoherent.

On the balance, any album which contains Ritual(Nous Sommes Du Soleil) is, quite frankly,  bit of a turkey.

Not very much, there's nothing there to get.

Stick to the classics.  They're not rubish or borring....

Reed Lover wrote: What am I missing?

A brain, most likely... its probably just a little too cerebral for you!!

Actually I love Tales.. always have.  But its a mood piece. Its almost like New Age..  To me I could care less about the words.. well except for the third side... "Do the leaves of green stay greener thru the autumn....", but its the general mood you get when you listen to it.  Its soothing, its meditative and its freeing.. and I think thats just what Jon Anderson was trying to convey...

And I'd much rather meditate to that than some chant in sanscript..

Tales from Topographic Oceans - Yes, It's title tells you that it will be self-indulgent to the nth degree - Oh yes...Let us pray at the alter of Musicians who play music that the proletariat HATE !!!

The logo is the finest for any album - The colours - Do you know how long it took to enbroider on my denim-jacket - about a month......

I may be wrong - but if you sip from the chalice of High-progressiveness - you must show no disgrace at the liking of this august and profound musical masterpiece....

yea...Though You may stand in the shadow of mariah carey, I shall fear no evil coz Those wacky Yes men gave us the light...It was their cross and our salvation.

Speaking of TFTO... has anyone noticed that a good number of the big prog bands released a controversial double album after the album widely recognized (I'm saying that very loosely) as their best?

ELP - Brain Salad Surgery -> Works Vol. I

Floyd - Animals -> The Wall

Genesis - Selling England by the Pound -> The Lamb

Yes - Close to the Edge -> Tales

Howe / Anderson were the writing partners for TFTO - They jammed by candlelight according to Jon Anderson....

Vegetableman wrote: Speaking of TFTO... has anyone noticed that a good number of the big prog bands released a controversial double album after the album widely recognized (I'm saying that very loosely) as their best? ELP - Brain Salad Surgery -> Works Vol. I Floyd - Animals -> The Wall Genesis - Selling England by the Pound -> The Lamb Yes - Close to the Edge -> Tales

Good point (I think?).

One of the reasons might be, they gained confidence to take their ideas one step (or even more steps) further.

BTW. I really love the album, but like Relayer it took me several spins before I got it. And the only reason it isn't a masterpiece (IMO) is because of the keyboards. The vocals, guitar and bass parts are amazing, and the drums are better than OK.