King Crimson vs. Camel

I like Camel more, but I simply think that the two bands are not comparable even if they have shared Mel Collins.

King Crimson vs. X

King Crimson wins.

Hercules wrote: harmonium.ro wrote: Hercules wrote: Snow Dog wrote: Hercules wrote: My favourite band versus one of my least favourites. Camel will undoubtedly lose this poll (this site has an abnormal number of KC (and VDGG) fanboys compared to the wider prog community) but they get my vote. Surely King Crimson has always had a bigger fanbase than Camel? After all King Crimson are premier league whilst Camel are second division. But I will probably vote Camel. I find it hard to decide these days. Not so, in fact. In the late 60s/early 70s, Crimson gained a lot of fans with their first album and lost them very quickly with their second and subsequent offerings. By the end of my time at Cambridge (1973), Crimson were a spent force - we thought about booking them but their gig attendances were too poor to justify it. Camel never quite made the first division in terms of sales but were much more popular than Crimson from 74 - 77. (They still are outside this site in the other prog communities I move in). Crimson were never ever up there with Genesis, ELP, Yes, Tull and ELP, the real 1st div. My question is: was Genesis in the early days (Peter Gabriel era) really a "first division" prog band? From the little live footage I've seen from that era, they seemed to be playing the same kind of small to medium concert halls (1000-2000 people in capacity) that KC also played in. I know Genesis got big around 1975-77, but that's not what I'm interested in. I am a little coloured in my view because I have never left university (as student and lecturer) since I went up to Cambridge in 1970, so my view is very student-centric. Genesis were darlings of the student movement in the early/mid 70s but it is true that their early albums, whilst selling well, never quite scaled the commercial heights of Yes or ELP at the time. They really only reached true supergroup status when they went mainstream - after Hackett left. But they always were considerably bigger than KC, Gentle Giant and Camel, who were near the top of the div 2 bands in terms of size.

Thanks for the answer, it confirms what I knew. I think we could talk a first tier (popularity wise) consisting of Yes, ELP and maybe Tull too (I don't know much about their popularity), and a second tier (this, of course, used not in a derogatory fashion) consisting of Genesis, Camel, KC, GG etc. This, for the early 70s. By mid 70s, when KC were ceasing to exist, and when Genesis were starting their ascension towards the first tier, YES and ELP were already playing to huge crowds, comparable to those from concerts of classic rock's greats. Seeing YES playing in 1975 at QPR in front of what seems to be a crowd of 40-50000 people is shocking, now.


Edited by harmonium.ro - January 14 2011 at 06:11

But you said yourself Genesis was not a stadium band like the top ones - that's the exact same thing I'm saying. Do you find it disrespectful to Genesis to put them in the same category with Camel? 

Even before the massive commercial success Genesis had with Duke and beyond, Genesis were selling far more albums than Camel, and playing to far bigger audiences. It is simply not true to state that the bands were on a par in that sense.

Thinking back to the early to late 1970's, the leaders commercially were The Who, Led Zeppelin, Yes, and The Rolling Stones, with, I suppose, Deep Purple a smidgen behind. In terms of football leagues, these were the perennial leaders of the table, the premiership contenders year after year, a la Man. Utd, Chelsea, and Arsenal in the football now. Pink Floyd joined that category following DSOTM.

Genesis I would put into the premiership mid table category. A group vying for the top, but taking a long time to get there.

Commercially, Camel were most definitely in a league below Genesis. The Championship now, if you will. King Crimson, by the way, were also in that category. After the massive success of the first two albums, they became far more of what were called cult status.

Hercules wrote: My favourite band versus one of my least favourites. Camel will undoubtedly lose this poll (this site has an abnormal number of KC (and VDGG) fanboys compared to the wider prog community) but they get my vote.

For sure, you are not a fanboy

Reviews and Ratings of ECLECTIC PROG

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KING CRIMSON In The Court Of The Crimson King | review
VAN DER GRAAF GENERATOR Pawn Hearts | review

altaeria wrote: Hercules wrote: this site has an abnormal number of KC (and VDGG) fanboys compared to the wider prog community So... Does this so-called  "wider prog community"  consider bands like KC and VDGG to be overrated?? Do they think that other legendary acts such as Yes, Genesis, and ELP are also undeservedly over-hyped?? I suppose all those REAL prog fans are too cool to hang around THIS site and enlighten us. Do they have their own online community?  Can you pleeeeeeease post a link to their website? I'm curious to hear about all the amazing revolutionary prog acts that THEY rightfully acknowledge as such.  Thanks!

Hats off to Camel! I presumed them a worse result, frankly speaking. I hope there are minimum malice votes (it means in this case "anything just not Crimson").

Edited by Gandalff - January 15 2011 at 07:40

MonsterMagnet wrote: Bonnek wrote: Hercules wrote: My favourite band versus one of my least favourites. Camel will undoubtedly lose this poll (this site has an abnormal number of KC (and VDGG) fanboys compared to the wider prog community) but they get my vote. For sure, you are not a fanboy Reviews and Ratings of ECLECTIC PROG KING CRIMSON In The Court Of The Crimson King | review VAN DER GRAAF GENERATOR Pawn Hearts | review vicious

Sid?

I would have said KC for years.  But in the last few years I've grown to love those 70s Camel albums a whole lot.  Plus they made a couple very good ones in the 90s.  Great band.    Camel it is.