King Crimson vs. Camel
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Topic: King Crimson vs. Camel
Posted By: adace1
Subject: King Crimson vs. Camel
Date Posted: January 12 2011 at 23:20
Honestly, I have not listened to enough of either band to come to a conclusion but what do you think?
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/adace/?chartstyle=lastfmblue">
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Replies:
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 00:04
Not a KC fan, but at least they don't make me sleepy.
Iván
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Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 00:47
How could dirty and slobbery animal wins over His Majesty?![LOL LOL](https://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel
silivren penna míriel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sí nef aearon!
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Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 01:59
My favourite band versus one of my least favourites.
Camel will undoubtedly lose this poll (this site has an abnormal number of KC (and VDGG) fanboys compared to the wider prog community) but they get my vote.
------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 02:11
Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 02:16
Let's see, a band with 4 good to great album against one with - i've lost count - masterpieces.
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Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 02:19
Bonnek wrote:
Let's see, a band with 4 good to great album against one with - i've lost count - masterpieces.
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And now you could reveal who is who.![LOL LOL](https://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel
silivren penna míriel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sí nef aearon!
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Posted By: adace1
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 02:22
Well I've listened to them a little more and I would probably have to go with KC despite the one objection I have against them. Is any one else a little annoyed by all the KC songs that are just random, unstructured experimentation? Maybe others appreciate that "avant-garde" aspect about them more than I do but it prevents me from liking them as much as other bands like Rush and PF. But while Camel is more consistent, I still like KC more because I like a larger number of KC songs than Camel songs if that makes sense.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/adace/?chartstyle=lastfmblue">
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Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 02:30
adace1 wrote:
Well I've listened to them a little more and I would probably have to go with KC despite the one objection I have against them. Is any one else a little annoyed by all the KC songs that are just random, unstructured experimentation? Maybe others appreciate that "avant-garde" aspect about them more than I do but it prevents me from liking them as much as other bands like Rush and PF. But while Camel is more consistent, I still like KC more because I like a larger number of KC songs than Camel songs if that makes sense. |
I´m sorry, but it seems you´re reinventing the wheel just now. ![LOL LOL](https://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif)
------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel
silivren penna míriel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sí nef aearon!
|
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 02:31
Camel.
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Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 02:33
adace1 wrote:
Is any one else a little annoyed by all the KC songs that are just random, unstructured experimentation? Maybe others appreciate that "avant-garde" aspect about them more than I do but it prevents me from liking them as much as other bands like Rush and PF. |
You've just highlighted why KC is the definition of progress and why rush and floyd bore me to tears.
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Posted By: Harold-The-Barrel
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 02:35
KC for me
------------- You must be joking.....Take a running jump......
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Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 02:42
Camel for me. There is not much music that I like better than the music of Camel in the early phase of their career. I also like Nude a lot, and some other later stuff is good too.
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Posted By: adace1
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 02:57
WalterDigsTunes wrote:
adace1 wrote:
Is any one else a little annoyed by all the KC songs that are just random, unstructured experimentation? Maybe others appreciate that "avant-garde" aspect about them more than I do but it prevents me from liking them as much as other bands like Rush and PF. |
You've just highlighted why KC is the definition of progress and why rush and floyd bore me to tears.
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Well I have no doubt that KC have been extremely influential and I certainly have respect for what they've done but as far as preference goes, I like my music at least semi-structured. There doesn't necessarily even have to be repetition in the song but there does have to be something memorable and identifiable about it rather than totally random and chaotic instrument playing. To put it more simply: Songs should at least have flow if not repitition. Again, no disrespect to KC. Most of their songs are not like what I just described so I think I will come to like them even more.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/adace/?chartstyle=lastfmblue">
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Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 03:15
Haha let's clarify for the uninitiated, can you still count all Crimson masterpieces, essential live ones and ProjecKCkKkkCts included?
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Posted By: akaBona
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 04:02
KC for me too. Actually no contest here ...
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 04:27
Hercules wrote:
My favourite band versus one of my least favourites.
Camel will undoubtedly lose this poll (this site has an abnormal number of KC (and VDGG) fanboys compared to the wider prog community) but they get my vote.
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Surely King Crimson has always had a bigger fanbase than Camel? After all King Crimson are premier league whilst Camel are second division.
But I will probably vote Camel. I find it hard to decide these days.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: friso
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 04:29
I think both are brilliant bands, but King Crimson is way more progressive and innovative. Still I voted 'love them equally', both are among my favorite bands.
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Posted By: Prog Geo
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 04:55
Camel by far!!!
------------- Sonorous Meal show every Sunday at 20:00 (greek time) on http://www.justincaseradio.com
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Posted By: trackstoni
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 05:30
with no regrets & no comment , Equally until the end of time !
------------- Tracking Tracks of Rock
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Posted By: Anirml
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 05:35
KC got more good stuff! =) could live without Camel but not KC!
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Posted By: ThinLizzy
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 06:33
Camel is ok, but King Crimson is on another lvl.
------------- And then one day you find
Ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run
You missed the starting gun
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Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 07:59
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Not a KC fan, but at least they don't make me sleepy.
Iván |
That sums it up.
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Posted By: Aragon
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 09:10
CAMEL! NO DOUBT! THEIR MELODIES ARE MEMORABLE and finally with them the sound become much refined. King Crimson is just fusion.
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Posted By: AllP0werToSlaves
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 09:16
King Crimson rules. but Camel is definitely one of my favorite bands in general. They are two different sounds; sometimes I prefer the jagged arrangements of KC, and sometimes I want the dreamy landscapes of Camel. King Crimson is legendary, but I'd probably pick Camel if I had to choose!
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Posted By: dave-the-rave
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 09:27
I respect KC, but it's not my thing— with the exception of 'Red,' it's mostly too dissonant for me to enjoy. Camel = pure enjoyment.
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Posted By: hobocamp
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 10:06
Kings can ride camels Kings can smoke camels Camels come in regular and kings
Help me I'm falling
------------- three dot, a trinity, a way to map the universe,
three dot
four dot, is what will make a square, a bed to build on, it's all there,
four dot
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Posted By: michellemjk
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 10:29
Posted By: digdug
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 10:41
KC has the only masterpiece in my books (the debut)
but Camel is more consistently enjoyable for me
tough call
will vote for the equal option I guess
------------- Prog On!
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Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 10:50
Snow Dog wrote:
Hercules wrote:
My favourite band versus one of my least favourites.
Camel will undoubtedly lose this poll (this site has an abnormal number of KC (and VDGG) fanboys compared to the wider prog community) but they get my vote.
|
Surely King Crimson has always had a bigger fanbase than Camel? After all King Crimson are premier league whilst Camel are second division.
But I will probably vote Camel. I find it hard to decide these days. |
Wow, that´s only cussedness from you!![Angry Angry](https://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif)
------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel
silivren penna míriel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sí nef aearon!
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Posted By: Jake Kobrin
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 10:50
King Crimson have several albums that I would call masterpieces. Camel have a couple of really good albums, but that's it. There are times when I prefer Latimer's guitar work, however.
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Jacob Kobrin Illustration
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Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 10:55
Jake Kobrin wrote:
King Crimson have several albums that I would call masterpieces. Camel have a couple of really good albums, but that's it. There are times when I prefer Latimer's guitar work, however. |
I´m sorry but Latimer´s guitar work knows to play Mr. Fripp with forefinger in his nostril.![Wink Wink](https://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif)
------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel
silivren penna míriel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sí nef aearon!
|
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 10:59
Gandalff wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Hercules wrote:
My favourite band versus one of my least favourites.
Camel will undoubtedly lose this poll (this site has an abnormal number of KC (and VDGG) fanboys compared to the wider prog community) but they get my vote.
|
Surely King Crimson has always had a bigger fanbase than Camel? After all King Crimson are premier league whilst Camel are second division.
But I will probably vote Camel. I find it hard to decide these days. |
Wow, that´s only cussedness from you!![Angry Angry](https://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif) |
Pardon?
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 11:01
Snow Dog wrote:
Gandalff wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Hercules wrote:
My favourite band versus one of my least favourites.
Camel will undoubtedly lose this poll (this site has an abnormal number of KC (and VDGG) fanboys compared to the wider prog community) but they get my vote.
|
Surely King Crimson has always had a bigger fanbase than Camel? After all King Crimson are premier league whilst Camel are second division.
But I will probably vote Camel. I find it hard to decide these days. |
Wow, that´s only cussedness from you!![Angry Angry](https://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif) |
Pardon? |
Wilful act. I feel contradiction in your post. When I like something, then I vote for it.
------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel
silivren penna míriel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sí nef aearon!
|
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 11:03
Gandalff wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Gandalff wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Hercules wrote:
My favourite band versus one of my least favourites.
Camel will undoubtedly lose this poll (this site has an abnormal number of KC (and VDGG) fanboys compared to the wider prog community) but they get my vote.
|
Surely King Crimson has always had a bigger fanbase than Camel? After all King Crimson are premier league whilst Camel are second division.
But I will probably vote Camel. I find it hard to decide these days. |
Wow, that´s only cussedness from you!![Angry Angry](https://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif) |
Pardon? |
Wilful act. |
Does anyone understand this? Help me out here!
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 11:46
Snow Dog wrote:
Hercules wrote:
My favourite band versus one of my least favourites.
Camel will undoubtedly lose this poll (this site has an abnormal number of KC (and VDGG) fanboys compared to the wider prog community) but they get my vote.
|
Surely King Crimson has always had a bigger fanbase than Camel? After all King Crimson are premier league whilst Camel are second division.
But I will probably vote Camel. I find it hard to decide these days. |
Not so, in fact. In the late 60s/early 70s, Crimson gained a lot of fans with their first album and lost them very quickly with their second and subsequent offerings. By the end of my time at Cambridge (1973), Crimson were a spent force - we thought about booking them but their gig attendances were too poor to justify it. Camel never quite made the first division in terms of sales but were much more popular than Crimson from 74 - 77. (They still are outside this site in the other prog communities I move in). Crimson were never ever up there with Genesis, ELP, Yes, Tull and ELP, the real 1st div.
------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
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Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 11:49
WTF??????? Anyone understand this???
------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
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Posted By: hobocamp
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 11:51
^ only the Babel Fish translator
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 11:53
Hercules wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Hercules wrote:
My favourite band versus one of my least favourites.
Camel will undoubtedly lose this poll (this site has an abnormal number of KC (and VDGG) fanboys compared to the wider prog community) but they get my vote.
|
Surely King Crimson has always had a bigger fanbase than Camel? After all King Crimson are premier league whilst Camel are second division.
But I will probably vote Camel. I find it hard to decide these days. |
Not so, in fact. In the late 60s/early 70s, Crimson gained a lot of fans with their first album and lost them very quickly with their second and subsequent offerings. By the end of my time at Cambridge (1973), Crimson were a spent force - we thought about booking them but their gig attendances were too poor to justify it. Camel never quite made the first division in terms of sales but were much more popular than Crimson from 74 - 77. (They still are outside this site in the other prog communities I move in). Crimson were never ever up there with Genesis, ELP, Yes, Tull and ELP, the real 1st div.
|
I guess you are right there.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 11:54
Snow Dog wrote:
Gandalff wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Gandalff wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Hercules wrote:
My favourite band versus one of my least favourites.
Camel will undoubtedly lose this poll (this site has an abnormal number of KC (and VDGG) fanboys compared to the wider prog community) but they get my vote.
|
Surely King Crimson has always had a bigger fanbase than Camel? After all King Crimson are premier league whilst Camel are second division.
But I will probably vote Camel. I find it hard to decide these days. |
Wow, that´s only cussedness from you!![Angry Angry](https://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif) |
Pardon? |
Wilful act. |
Does anyone understand this? Help me out here! |
My New year's reslution was to ignore Walter's posts, based upon your suggestion. Another NYR might be to give up trying to understand these exchanges![Wink Wink](smileys/smiley2.gif)
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 11:56
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 11:57
Hercules wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Hercules wrote:
My favourite band versus one of my least favourites.
Camel will undoubtedly lose this poll (this site has an abnormal number of KC (and VDGG) fanboys compared to the wider prog community) but they get my vote.
|
Surely King Crimson has always had a bigger fanbase than Camel? After all King Crimson are premier league whilst Camel are second division.
But I will probably vote Camel. I find it hard to decide these days. |
Not so, in fact. In the late 60s/early 70s, Crimson gained a lot of fans with their first album and lost them very quickly with their second and subsequent offerings. By the end of my time at Cambridge (1973), Crimson were a spent force - we thought about booking them but their gig attendances were too poor to justify it. Camel never quite made the first division in terms of sales but were much more popular than Crimson from 74 - 77. (They still are outside this site in the other prog communities I move in). Crimson were never ever up there with Genesis, ELP, Yes, Tull and ELP, the real 1st div.
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Yep, an extremely knowing and true post![Clap Clap](smileys/smiley32.gif)
I've been listening to a lot of Camel lately, and will get round to a few reviews shortly. I find their music wondrous, and actually have been getting back in a big way into the later stuff, which, although not mighty sellers, were works of art and deserved a far bigger audience.
------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
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Posted By: Tursake
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 12:00
Very hard to decide since it depends on my mood. At the moment I like KC more but a month ago Camel sounded much better. ![Geek Geek](smileys/smiley23.gif)
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Last.fm: TursakeX
RYM: Tursake
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 12:04
Hercules wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Hercules wrote:
My favourite band versus one of my least favourites.
Camel will undoubtedly lose this poll (this site has an abnormal number of KC (and VDGG) fanboys compared to the wider prog community) but they get my vote.
|
Surely King Crimson has always had a bigger fanbase than Camel? After all King Crimson are premier league whilst Camel are second division.
But I will probably vote Camel. I find it hard to decide these days. |
Not so, in fact. In the late 60s/early 70s, Crimson gained a lot of fans with their first album and lost them very quickly with their second and subsequent offerings. By the end of my time at Cambridge (1973), Crimson were a spent force - we thought about booking them but their gig attendances were too poor to justify it. Camel never quite made the first division in terms of sales but were much more popular than Crimson from 74 - 77. (They still are outside this site in the other prog communities I move in). Crimson were never ever up there with Genesis, ELP, Yes, Tull and ELP, the real 1st div.
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My question is: was Genesis in the early days (Peter Gabriel era) really a "first division" prog band? From the little live footage I've seen from that era, they seemed to be playing the same kind of small to medium concert halls (1000-2000 people in capacity) that KC also played in. I know Genesis got big around 1975-77, but that's not what I'm interested in.
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 12:10
I thought I remember from a documentary on TV that even on the Lamb tour they were still playing to small crowds and half-filled theaters. It wasn't until Gabriel left that the band started to take off sales wise, but I'll of course let the older folks who were actually there tell us the real story.
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 12:10
adace1 wrote:
Is any one else a little annoyed by all the KC songs that are just random, unstructured experimentation? |
Which songs do you speak of? Only Starless and Bible Black has such tracks. Larks Tongue in Aspic Part1, for instance, is neither random nor unstructured. It may have emerged from experimentation/improvisation but the final output is quite carefully composed. Of course, if you insist freeform is random and song is only the valid structure...![Confused Confused](smileys/smiley5.gif)
As for topic, if you vote for the highs, the absolutely brilliant moments, you will most probably vote for KC, which is what I did. If you are the kind who punishes a band so severely for a few bad moments that you would rather pick an only occasionally spectacular but consistently solid band, you will definitely vote for Camel. Of course, it's also possible you don't like KC in general, which is a different story.
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 12:12
harmonium.ro wrote:
Hercules wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Hercules wrote:
My favourite band versus one of my least favourites.
Camel will undoubtedly lose this poll (this site has an abnormal number of KC (and VDGG) fanboys compared to the wider prog community) but they get my vote.
|
Surely King Crimson has always had a bigger fanbase than Camel? After all King Crimson are premier league whilst Camel are second division.
But I will probably vote Camel. I find it hard to decide these days. |
Not so, in fact. In the late 60s/early 70s, Crimson gained a lot of fans with their first album and lost them very quickly with their second and subsequent offerings. By the end of my time at Cambridge (1973), Crimson were a spent force - we thought about booking them but their gig attendances were too poor to justify it. Camel never quite made the first division in terms of sales but were much more popular than Crimson from 74 - 77. (They still are outside this site in the other prog communities I move in). Crimson were never ever up there with Genesis, ELP, Yes, Tull and ELP, the real 1st div.
|
My question is: was Genesis in the early days (Peter Gabriel era) really a "first division" prog band? From the little live footage I've seen from that era, they seemed to be playing the same kind of small to medium concert halls (1000-2000 people in capacity) that KC also played in. I know Genesis got big around 1975-77, but that's not what I'm interested in.
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Yes i think is the answer. They played venues such as The Rainbow and De Montford Hall at the SEBTP tour, which were, in those days, major league venues in the UK. plus, they were huge in Italy and other parts of Europe, with the addition of major venues in uSA by The Lamb tour.
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Posted By: friso
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 12:12
It is true Latimer has many guitar skills that Fripp does not have. Latimer is a unique player with a very sensitive and subtle technique and he is way more capable of playing melodic solo's.
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 12:12
harmonium.ro wrote:
Hercules wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Hercules wrote:
My favourite band versus one of my least favourites.
Camel will undoubtedly lose this poll (this site has an abnormal number of KC (and VDGG) fanboys compared to the wider prog community) but they get my vote.
|
Surely King Crimson has always had a bigger fanbase than Camel? After all King Crimson are premier league whilst Camel are second division.
But I will probably vote Camel. I find it hard to decide these days. |
Not so, in fact. In the late 60s/early 70s, Crimson gained a lot of fans with their first album and lost them very quickly with their second and subsequent offerings. By the end of my time at Cambridge (1973), Crimson were a spent force - we thought about booking them but their gig attendances were too poor to justify it. Camel never quite made the first division in terms of sales but were much more popular than Crimson from 74 - 77. (They still are outside this site in the other prog communities I move in). Crimson were never ever up there with Genesis, ELP, Yes, Tull and ELP, the real 1st div.
|
My question is: was Genesis in the early days (Peter Gabriel era) really a "first division" prog band? From the little live footage I've seen from that era, they seemed to be playing the same kind of small to medium concert halls (1000-2000 people in capacity) that KC also played in. I know Genesis got big around 1975-77, but that's not what I'm interested in.
|
I think they probably were. Especially after Selling England. But on the other hand I don't think they were stadium band like ELP or Yes
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 12:15
friso wrote:
It is true Latimer has many guitar skills that Fripp does not have. Latimer is a unique player with a very sensitive and subtle technique and he is way more capable of playing melodic solo's. |
Fripp is definitely the superior technician but I do agree that Latimer is far superior at evoking emotions with his guitar playing, particularly his solos. Only Hackett imo matches/betters him in that respect in prog. Fripp doesn't really play solos in the generally understood sense of the word, not that that's necessarily a flaw.
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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 12:25
This is a toughie for me, King Crimson is indeed the more popular and "strong" Prog Rock band out of the both, having innovated in almost every albums. But Camel is still one of the bands I thank PA for showing me, I love their first five records which are all different and great.
Hmm... Well, Crimson already won so I'll vote for Camel.
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Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 12:27
I voted "Like them equally" because I like each for different reasons. I like the melodicism and lyricism of Camel's music and think Andrew Latimer is a first-class guitarist and writer. He can play extended guitar pieces, not jams, that keep the listener interested. The late Peter Bardens was also one of my favorite keyboardists. In a word, I really enjoy listening to Camel. King Crimson I also enjoy, of course, and Fripp is one of the premier guitarists of our time. Crimson, though comes to me as more a whole, or rather a series of wholes (an ocean of [w]holes?). They have continually pushed the boundaries of Prog throughout their career and have created some of the most intriguing music in rock. But note my terms here. I enjoy them, yes, but what I am really saying here is that I appreciate them on an objective level. Theirs is intellectual music which engages my rational mind. So that brings me to the contrast: I have a more emotional appreciation of Camel, and a more rational appreciation of King Crimson. ![Ying Yang Ying Yang](https://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley33.gif)
------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 13:07
harmonium.ro wrote:
Hercules wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Hercules wrote:
My favourite band versus one of my least favourites.
Camel will undoubtedly lose this poll (this site has an abnormal number of KC (and VDGG) fanboys compared to the wider prog community) but they get my vote.
|
Surely King Crimson has always had a bigger fanbase than Camel? After all King Crimson are premier league whilst Camel are second division.
But I will probably vote Camel. I find it hard to decide these days. |
Not so, in fact. In the late 60s/early 70s, Crimson gained a lot of fans with their first album and lost them very quickly with their second and subsequent offerings. By the end of my time at Cambridge (1973), Crimson were a spent force - we thought about booking them but their gig attendances were too poor to justify it. Camel never quite made the first division in terms of sales but were much more popular than Crimson from 74 - 77. (They still are outside this site in the other prog communities I move in). Crimson were never ever up there with Genesis, ELP, Yes, Tull and ELP, the real 1st div.
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My question is: was Genesis in the early days (Peter Gabriel era) really a "first division" prog band? From the little live footage I've seen from that era, they seemed to be playing the same kind of small to medium concert halls (1000-2000 people in capacity) that KC also played in. I know Genesis got big around 1975-77, but that's not what I'm interested in.
|
I am a little coloured in my view because I have never left university (as student and lecturer) since I went up to Cambridge in 1970, so my view is very student-centric. Genesis were darlings of the student movement in the early/mid 70s but it is true that their early albums, whilst selling well, never quite scaled the commercial heights of Yes or ELP at the time. They really only reached true supergroup status when they went mainstream - after Hackett left. But they always were considerably bigger than KC, Gentle Giant and Camel, who were near the top of the div 2 bands in terms of size.
------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
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Posted By: altaeria
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 13:15
Hercules wrote:
this site has an abnormal number of KC (and VDGG) fanboys compared to the wider prog community
|
So... Does this so-called "wider prog community" consider bands like KC and VDGG to be overrated?? Do they think that other legendary acts such as Yes, Genesis, and ELP are also undeservedly over-hyped??
I suppose all those REAL prog fans are too cool to hang around THIS site and enlighten us. Do they have their own online community? Can you pleeeeeeease post a link to their website?
I'm curious to hear about all the amazing revolutionary prog acts that THEY rightfully acknowledge as such. Thanks!
![Clap Clap](smileys/smiley32.gif)
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Posted By: Lozlan
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 14:14
Camel, all the way. I love the early Crimson releases, but Moonmadness is my prog soulmate.
------------- Certified Obscure Prog Fart.
http://scottjcouturier.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - The Loose Palace of Exile - My first novel, The Mask of Tamrel, now available on Amazon and Kindle
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Posted By: MFP
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 17:12
Padraic wrote:
King Crimson, easily. |
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Posted By: crimhead
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 17:44
Gandalff wrote:
adace1 wrote:
Well I've listened to them a little more and I would probably have to go with KC despite the one objection I have against them. Is any one else a little annoyed by all the KC songs that are just random, unstructured experimentation? Maybe others appreciate that "avant-garde" aspect about them more than I do but it prevents me from liking them as much as other bands like Rush and PF. But while Camel is more consistent, I still like KC more because I like a larger number of KC songs than Camel songs if that makes sense. |
I´m sorry, but it seems you´re reinventing the wheel just now. ![LOL LOL](https://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif) |
With steel belted radials?
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Posted By: jean-marie
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 18:35
love both but listen to camel more often it' a fact except maybe in the court and island
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Posted By: topographicbroadways
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 18:47
Camel is much more consistent in quality than King Crimson that is why they have my vote. I realy enjoy the first few Crimson records but i adore all Camel records up till and beyond (from the snippets i've heard) Nude
-------------
![](http://i.imgur.com/lSwGg.gif)
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Posted By: Prog_Traveller
Date Posted: January 13 2011 at 18:59
One of these bands is in my top five and one isn't and it's probably not who you think it is.
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Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: January 14 2011 at 00:43
I like Camel more, but I simply think that the two bands are not comparable even if they have shared Mel Collins. I'm wondering what could have been if Ferguson was replaced by Greg Lake instead of Richard Sinclair...
------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: January 14 2011 at 05:11
Camel by far, I'm not a KC fan.
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Posted By: Formentera Lady
Date Posted: January 14 2011 at 05:35
King Crimson vs. X
King Crimson wins. ![Evil Smile Evil Smile](smileys/smiley15.gif)
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Posted By: Gentlegiantprog
Date Posted: January 14 2011 at 05:43
King Crimson, but I like both.
------------- Let the maps of war be drawn !
http://kingcrimsonprog.wordpress.com/
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: January 14 2011 at 06:10
Hercules wrote:
harmonium.ro wrote:
Hercules wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Hercules wrote:
My favourite band versus one of my least favourites.
Camel will undoubtedly lose this poll (this site has an abnormal number of KC (and VDGG) fanboys compared to the wider prog community) but they get my vote.
|
Surely King Crimson has always had a bigger fanbase than Camel? After all King Crimson are premier league whilst Camel are second division.
But I will probably vote Camel. I find it hard to decide these days. |
Not so, in fact. In the late 60s/early 70s, Crimson gained a lot of fans with their first album and lost them very quickly with their second and subsequent offerings. By the end of my time at Cambridge (1973), Crimson were a spent force - we thought about booking them but their gig attendances were too poor to justify it. Camel never quite made the first division in terms of sales but were much more popular than Crimson from 74 - 77. (They still are outside this site in the other prog communities I move in). Crimson were never ever up there with Genesis, ELP, Yes, Tull and ELP, the real 1st div.
|
My question is: was Genesis in the early days (Peter Gabriel era) really a "first division" prog band? From the little live footage I've seen from that era, they seemed to be playing the same kind of small to medium concert halls (1000-2000 people in capacity) that KC also played in. I know Genesis got big around 1975-77, but that's not what I'm interested in.
|
I am a little coloured in my view because I have never left university (as student and lecturer) since I went up to Cambridge in 1970, so my view is very student-centric. Genesis were darlings of the student movement in the early/mid 70s but it is true that their early albums, whilst selling well, never quite scaled the commercial heights of Yes or ELP at the time. They really only reached true supergroup status when they went mainstream - after Hackett left. But they always were considerably bigger than KC, Gentle Giant and Camel, who were near the top of the div 2 bands in terms of size.
|
Thanks for the answer, it confirms what I knew. I think we could talk a first tier (popularity wise) consisting of Yes, ELP and maybe Tull too (I don't know much about their popularity), and a second tier (this, of course, used not in a derogatory fashion) consisting of Genesis, Camel, KC, GG etc. This, for the early 70s. By mid 70s, when KC were ceasing to exist, and when Genesis were starting their ascension towards the first tier, YES and ELP were already playing to huge crowds, comparable to those from concerts of classic rock's greats. Seeing YES playing in 1975 at QPR in front of what seems to be a crowd of 40-50000 people is shocking, now.
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: January 14 2011 at 06:29
harmonium.ro wrote:
Hercules wrote:
harmonium.ro wrote:
Hercules wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Hercules wrote:
My favourite band versus one of my least favourites.
Camel will undoubtedly lose this poll (this site has an abnormal number of KC (and VDGG) fanboys compared to the wider prog community) but they get my vote.
|
Surely King Crimson has always had a bigger fanbase than Camel? After all King Crimson are premier league whilst Camel are second division.
But I will probably vote Camel. I find it hard to decide these days. |
Not so, in fact. In the late 60s/early 70s, Crimson gained a lot of fans with their first album and lost them very quickly with their second and subsequent offerings. By the end of my time at Cambridge (1973), Crimson were a spent force - we thought about booking them but their gig attendances were too poor to justify it. Camel never quite made the first division in terms of sales but were much more popular than Crimson from 74 - 77. (They still are outside this site in the other prog communities I move in). Crimson were never ever up there with Genesis, ELP, Yes, Tull and ELP, the real 1st div.
|
My question is: was Genesis in the early days (Peter Gabriel era) really a "first division" prog band? From the little live footage I've seen from that era, they seemed to be playing the same kind of small to medium concert halls (1000-2000 people in capacity) that KC also played in. I know Genesis got big around 1975-77, but that's not what I'm interested in.
|
I am a little coloured in my view because I have never left university (as student and lecturer) since I went up to Cambridge in 1970, so my view is very student-centric. Genesis were darlings of the student movement in the early/mid 70s but it is true that their early albums, whilst selling well, never quite scaled the commercial heights of Yes or ELP at the time. They really only reached true supergroup status when they went mainstream - after Hackett left. But they always were considerably bigger than KC, Gentle Giant and Camel, who were near the top of the div 2 bands in terms of size.
|
Thanks for the answer, it confirms what I knew. I think we could talk a first tier (popularity wise) consisting of Yes, ELP and maybe Tull too (I don't know much about their popularity), and a second tier (this, of course, used not in a derogatory fashion) consisting of Genesis, Camel, KC, GG etc. This, for the early 70s. By mid 70s, when KC were ceasing to exist, and when Genesis were starting their ascension towards the first tier, YES and ELP were already playing to huge crowds, comparable to those from concerts of classic rock's greats. Seeing YES playing in 1975 at QPR in front of what seems to be a crowd of 40-50000 people is shocking, now.
|
No. Genesis were not second tier witn Camel. You ignored my answer anyway.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: January 14 2011 at 06:45
But you said yourself Genesis was not a stadium band like the top ones - that's the exact same thing I'm saying. Do you find it disrespectful to Genesis to put them in the same category with Camel?
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: January 14 2011 at 06:58
harmonium.ro wrote:
But you said yourself Genesis was not a stadium band like the top ones - that's the exact same thing I'm saying. Do you find it disrespectful to Genesis to put them in the same category with Camel?
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All I know from that time is that they were a far bigger band than Camel. I can say no more than that.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: January 14 2011 at 06:59
Even before the massive commercial success Genesis had with Duke and beyond, Genesis were selling far more albums than Camel, and playing to far bigger audiences. It is simply not true to state that the bands were on a par in that sense.
Thinking back to the early to late 1970's, the leaders commercially were The Who, Led Zeppelin, Yes, and The Rolling Stones, with, I suppose, Deep Purple a smidgen behind. In terms of football leagues, these were the perennial leaders of the table, the premiership contenders year after year, a la Man. Utd, Chelsea, and Arsenal in the football now. Pink Floyd joined that category following DSOTM.
Genesis I would put into the premiership mid table category. A group vying for the top, but taking a long time to get there.
Commercially, Camel were most definitely in a league below Genesis. The Championship now, if you will. King Crimson, by the way, were also in that category. After the massive success of the first two albums, they became far more of what were called cult status.
------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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Posted By: Pawn Heart
Date Posted: January 14 2011 at 10:44
Camel are more than good, but nothing compares to KC imho, except 1/2 bands.
------------- "If a man is not willing to take some risk for his opinions, either his opinions are no good or he is no good"
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Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: January 14 2011 at 12:13
Hercules wrote:
My favourite band versus one of my least favourites.
Camel will undoubtedly lose this poll (this site has an abnormal number of KC (and VDGG) fanboys compared to the wider prog community) but they get my vote.
|
For sure, you are not a fanboy
Reviews and Ratings of ECLECTIC PROG
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Posted By: jean-marie
Date Posted: January 14 2011 at 13:35
i'm a great KC and VDGG fan , i saw them under lysergic influence but i must admit ther's kind of addiction to them on PA
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Posted By: Ronnie Pilgrim
Date Posted: January 14 2011 at 13:35
Posted By: MonsterMagnet
Date Posted: January 15 2011 at 07:31
Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: January 15 2011 at 07:40
Hats off to Camel! I presumed them a worse result, frankly speaking. I hope there are minimum malice votes (it means in this case "anything just not Crimson").
------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel
silivren penna míriel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sí nef aearon!
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Posted By: MonsterMagnet
Date Posted: January 15 2011 at 07:44
Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: January 15 2011 at 09:27
Sid?
------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel
silivren penna míriel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sí nef aearon!
|
Posted By: MonsterMagnet
Date Posted: January 15 2011 at 10:49
Gandalff wrote:
Sid? |
John Simon Ritchie ? well done ![Thumbs Up Thumbs Up](smileys/smiley20.gif)
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Posted By: akajazzman
Date Posted: January 16 2011 at 02:03
I would have said KC for years. But in the last few years I've grown to love those 70s Camel albums a whole lot. Plus they made a couple very good ones in the 90s. Great band. Camel it is.
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Posted By: King Manuel
Date Posted: January 16 2011 at 02:11
CAMEL, OF COURSE!!! What a question!!
------------- Don't Bore Us, Get To The Chorus
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Posted By: Formentera Lady
Date Posted: January 16 2011 at 05:37
Bonnek wrote:
Hercules wrote:
My favourite band versus one of my least favourites.
Camel will undoubtedly lose this poll (this site has an abnormal number of KC (and VDGG) fanboys compared to the wider prog community) but they get my vote.
|
For sure, you are not a fanboy
Reviews and Ratings of ECLECTIC PROG
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These reviews are epic... ![LOL LOL](smileys/smiley36.gif)
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Posted By: The-time-is-now
Date Posted: January 16 2011 at 09:57
Camel.
-------------
![](https://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mb53a40Wpt1rwq9jho1_500.gif)
One of my best achievements in life was to find this picture :D
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Posted By: Jazzywoman
Date Posted: January 16 2011 at 17:37
Camel, only because I like their style of music a bit less boring the King Crimson. Don't get me wrong, their albums always have some sort of intererst, but I usually get tired of it quick. I don't know, thats just me haha. ![Tongue Tongue](https://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif)
-------------
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Posted By: BlindGuard
Date Posted: January 19 2011 at 11:20
KC by far.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Shelef/?chartstyle=lastfmplain" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: BarryGlibb
Date Posted: February 28 2011 at 04:12
Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: February 28 2011 at 04:35
KC are by far the bigger band but I have a soft spot for Camel so was happy to go the third choice.
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Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: February 28 2011 at 06:01
I bought most (all in Camel's cases) of both; yet, I only have Camel left in my collection.
E
-------------
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Posted By: jean-marie
Date Posted: March 01 2011 at 08:37
camel by far! but we all know who's gonna win
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Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: March 01 2011 at 10:14
Um, I'd go so far as to say that every King Crimson album I've heard is consistently better than Camel at basically any point in their career. I'm listening to Moonmadness at the moment - still not convinced by it - we'll see if I hate Lunar Sea as much as I used to.
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Posted By: jean-marie
Date Posted: March 01 2011 at 11:33
i can understand you, thought it's a matter of taste and very subjective, for instance ,even after numerous listenings lizard keeps boring to me but i love island,in the court,and lark's tongues
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Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: March 01 2011 at 13:35
Posted By: The_Jester
Date Posted: March 01 2011 at 16:16
I maybe need to discover Camel more even if what I heard of them was incredible, I still prefer King Crimson.
------------- La victoire est éphémère mais la gloire est éternelle!
- Napoléon Bonaparte
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Posted By: DanthraX
Date Posted: March 04 2011 at 18:20
Camel, first four albums and last two are amazing, but the whole KC catalogue is way better...
------------- I look up, I'm almost blinded
by the warmth of what's inside me
and the taste that's in my soul,
but I'm dead inside as I stand alone...
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Posted By: b4usleep
Date Posted: March 06 2011 at 11:00
BarryGlibb wrote:
KC
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------------- Really don't mind if you sit this one out.
My words but a whisper, your deafness a shout.
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Posted By: genbanks
Date Posted: March 08 2011 at 20:30
CAMEL by Far. They are more muscial and symphonic, but prog too, and I like that
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Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: March 08 2011 at 20:42
genbanks wrote:
CAMEL by Far. They are more muscial and symphonic, but prog too, and I like that |
There is none more progressive than the Crimson king.
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Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: March 08 2011 at 20:55
im afraid i'll have to jump on the Crimson bandwagon
...wait no im not afraid...
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
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Posted By: Dr. Occulator
Date Posted: March 09 2011 at 14:18
I like them both and to choose it's like comparing darkness to light. Two totally different royal animals.
------------- My Doc Told Me I Have Doggie Head.
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Posted By: davidk
Date Posted: April 08 2011 at 20:45
King Crimson for sure! EVERY one of their albums in unique, and new! Including the live ones! The improvs just get newer, and fresher and just amazing.
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Posted By: Mista-Gordie
Date Posted: April 08 2011 at 21:03
Two of my favorite bands, I'd say KC though
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