Rate yourself! (Prog elitism)

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 darqdean wrote:

[ 
That's was not >50 different Genesis singles - only a completist counts every edition of each single. 

The famous Charisma label had found a small amount of chart success selling left-field singles (Lindisfarne and Clfford T Ward) but in the words of Tony Stratton-Smith: "Charisma, in fact, has had only one Artist and Repertoire man until this year and that was Stratton Smith himself. He signs the bands directly and takes a hearty artistic hand in determining what goes out of the office with a Charisma label on it. Singles, he says, were never Charisma's strong point simply because he saw no need for them. Charisma was selling albums in copious quantities and those albums were by groups that English and American radio chieftains saw only as album acts." (http://www.charismalabel.com/tpcmarticle.htm)

Use the argument you want, Genesis released more than 100 singles along their whole career.

And you forgotten Yes, they released at least one single per album in ther peak.

Jethro Tull has a lot of Singles, Focus has singles, Manfred Mann's Earth Band have singles...The fact is that they also tried to reach the mainstream market unsuccesfullt

Jimmy_row's original statement was regarding the time when Prog was at it's peak, which was from 1970 through to 1976, he made no reference to any country. I referenced the UK since that was the epicentre of the growth (and decline) of Prog Rock in the 70s... 

We know that UK market worjked in a different way with Prog, not enough to be a opopular genre or part of the mainstream, but it was essentially a British movement.

I was not being Anglo-centric in the facts I stated - I was just reflecting what I witnessed first hand in the UK in the 1970s - you made similar statements about your personal experiences of Prog from your youth. I cannot comment on what prog was like in the USA during th 70s because I was not there and had little interest in American music at that time.

I can't comment both I lived a year in Birmingham Alabbama, and the situation was similar to Perú, I hardly knew 10 persons who ever heard about Prog, the difference is that you always found a copy of a Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, Jethro Tull album, but never moire that 2 or 3 

The World-wide status of Silver and Gold album is not related to the number of units sold, but to the percentage of the county's population that bought them. So the USA a Gold album has to sell 5 times more than the UK because the population is 5 times larger. Therefore achieving Gold in any country in the World is a comparable measure of popularity, not wealth.

US Gold = 500,000 from a population of 250,000,000 = 0.2% of population
UK Gold = 100,000 from a population of 50,000,000 = 0.2% of population

That's why I'm using BPI certification for UK albums and not RIAA. 

but despite this fact, I can say without doubts that  100,000 albums in 14 years is NOTHING in UK, any POP or mainstream band sells more in the first six months.

So, yes you can make more money by going Gold in the USA, which is why every artist on the planet wants to be big in the USA - but you can make exactly the same amount of money by going Gold in 6 or 7 European countries. To use a modern statistic - Dream Theatre have sold 6 million albums, but only 2 million of those were in the USA - i.e they sell twice as many albums outside their own country.

Please, don't change the subject, I'm comparing albums sold in UK all with the same parameters, 100,000 albums in one year is considered a poor sale for any mainstream band.

Dream theater BTW is an exception because they got the Prog and the Metal audience.

(btw: Two weeks at No. 1 over the Christmas period means quite a lot as this is the time of high album sales and is equivalent in sales terms to several weeks at No.1 at any other time of the year)

But still they only got a gold certification during their first year, this means 100,000 albums in one year, normally a POP band with this sales would be put to sleep.

Pre-teen fads like the Spice Girls and Britney Spears are exceptions and do not really relate to Mainstream success either - the vast majority of Mainstream artists sell considerably less than that. 

Do you wat more examples? I won't mention again the 11 Platinum albums of Thriller and the 3 platinum of Britney, I would go exclusively with no pre teen bands

Rolling Stones in UK: 

Tally [U.K. LPs]: 4,220,000 certified units
SILVER: 23
GOLD: 21 (tied at #1 with the Beatles among all music groups)
PLATINUM: 4

And they are not Pre Teen Pop

Fleetwood Mac Rumours:

BPI – UK
Gold
May 23, 1977

BPI – UK
Platinum
November 9, 1977

In the year of release they got BPI Platinum Certification, but that's nt all.

BPI – UK
10X Platinum
January 28, 2000

That's not a Pre teen group neither

Cat Stevens is not mentioned by BPI but this numbers may guive you an idea:

RIAA – U.S.
Gold
May 12, 1971

RIAA – U.S.
Platinum
January 30, 2001

RIAA – U.S.
Double Platinum
January 30, 2001

RIAA – U.S.
Triple Platinum
January 30, 2001

Madonna: Like a Prayer:

United Kingdom
1
4x Platinum
1,200,000+

Hotel California:

5 Platinum Certification by BPI

The Joshua's Tree (U2)

United Kingdom
1
6x Platinum 
1,800,000+

REM - Out of Time:

BPI – UK
Triple Platinum
March 1, 1992

In one year got triple Platinum in UK

So please, the numbers speak by themselves, mainsteream sales are incredibly superiotr to Prog sales , so we can't compare them.

The general trend is exponential with all the artists around the middle to lower regions of the charts selling similar volumes, which is why Unsigned bands can find their downloads in the top-40 and Marillion can release 23 singles over the past 24 years, all of which chart. 

Niumbers don't lie, I made a list of serious bands. not pre teens, no Rap, etc, only recognized mainstream artists and the difference with Prog is amazing, even in England.

Iván 

Poll Question: How much do you consider yourself as a prog elitist?
Poll Choice	Votes	Poll Statistics
1	8	[9.09%]
2	4	[4.55%]
3	6	[6.82%]
4	9	[10.23%]
5	7	[7.95%]
6	10	[11.36%]
7	13	[14.77%]
8	10	[11.36%]
9	9	[10.23%]
10	12	[13.64%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted