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USA Seventies 'Prog' that is NOT Jazz Fusion!

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Poll Question: Who do you prefer?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
6 [10.91%]
22 [40.00%]
17 [30.91%]
3 [5.45%]
3 [5.45%]
2 [3.64%]
2 [3.64%]
You can not vote in this poll

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Grumpyprogfan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2024 at 10:09
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


I'm not saying that the genre was very popular in USA, I just seem to see a discrepancy between the degree of popularity and the dimensions of the American Progressive Rock scene, and wonder how come. 

Has it something to do with the traditions of the American music?


I don't know the answer. But progressive rock in the 70's (USA) wasn't as popular as.. The Eagles, Elton John, Bee Gees, AC/DC, Aerosmith, Jackson 5, Led Zeppelin, The Doobie Brothers, Queen, Kiss, Grateful Dead, ZZ Top, Chicago, etc.

Edited by Grumpyprogfan - September 04 2024 at 13:29
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Frets N Worries View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Frets N Worries Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2024 at 10:18
Other, I'm voting for Happy The Man, although Utopia rocks!
The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.

Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2024 at 10:26
Kansas for me. Happy the Man should maybe be on the list but then again if you put them on you have to have Starcastle and a bunch of other US bands and it could easily get out of hand. Lol.
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verslibre View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2024 at 10:48
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^Neither prog nor fusion was "popular" in The States in the 70's.


Pink Floyd and Yes were definitely popular.

Santana's first three albums were huge sellers. Abraxas is certified quintuple-Platinum but has undoubtedly sold many more copies. Caravanserai, considered their most outright prog record, was also a hit.

When Weather Report added Jaco, their music became more focused, more melodic. Heavy Weather, the first record to fully feature Jaco as their new bassist (he played on two cuts on their previous album, Black Market) went Gold. The Joni Mitchell connection helped, too.

And let's not forget Miles' Davis Bitches Brew (1969) shifted 400,000 units in its first year of release.
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Grumpyprogfan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2024 at 11:59
^No fusion allowed in this thread. So not many prog bands were popular in USA in the 70's.

I don't recall Canterbury, RPI, Krautrock, Zeuhl, Avant, or Psychedelic being popular. And when was prog ever popular?
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2024 at 16:58
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

I don't recall Canterbury, RPI, Krautrock, Zeuhl, Avant, or Psychedelic being popular. And when was prog ever popular?
No one ever claimed that bands in your mentioned sub-genres were popular (except from some late 1960's Psychedelic Rock). But a handful of British progbands were about as big in the USA as they were in Europe. It's easy to read from album sales and chart entries, so I don't really understand your question. Prog was once quite popular. Much more than it is now.
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Logan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2024 at 17:02
Surely Psychedelia has had loads of popularity in the US (more what I might think of as Prog Related Psych or Proto-Prog in PA). Others have listed bands that we deem prog (and fusion) that were popular. As a genre I would not expect Prog to be very popular in the US, but lots of bands that are deemed to have made Prog were popular. Of course one commonly can find more popular mainstream rock and pop but that does not mean that those Prog acts did not have popularity.

Edited by Logan - September 04 2024 at 17:07
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verslibre View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2024 at 17:07
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^No fusion allowed in this thread.


Explain Steely Dan.
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Grumpyprogfan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2024 at 17:45
^Not my poll
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2024 at 01:37
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:


And let's not forget Miles' Davis Bitches Brew (1969) shifted 400,000 units in its first year of release.
On that note McLaughlin's Mahavishnu Orchestra reached no. 15 (top 5. in Canada) in the Billboard chart with Birds of Fire. It has sold over 500,000 units (Gold) in the US alone. It's actually 37th in the year-end chart for 1973 (and above BoF you'll find albums by Moody Blues, Rick Wakeman and Focus).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2024 at 05:17
Here is a list of Billboard's top albums of the year during the 70's. Dark Side of the Moon was the only prog album that was album of the year. Sure, Yes, Genesis, ELP, and King Crimson sold albums but not as much (weren't as popular) as these listed.

1970 - Simon and Garfunkel - Bridge Over Troubled Water (Santana Abraxas did well)
1971 - Carole King - Tapestry (Santana III did well)
1972- Neil Young - Harvest (Tull Thick As A Brick did well)
1973 - Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon (Moody Blues Seventh Sojurn and Tull's A Passion Play did well)
1974 - Elton John - Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
1975 - Elton John - Greatest Hits (Pink Floyd Wish You Were Here did well)
1976 - Peter Frampton - Frampton Comes Alive!
1977 - Fleetwood Mac - Rumours
1978 - Bee Gees' - Saturday Night Fever
1979 - Billy Joel - 52nd Street (Supertramp - Breakfast in America did well)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2024 at 06:07
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^No fusion allowed in this thread.

Explain Steely Dan.

mostly Pop-Rock  Big smile


Edited by David_D - September 05 2024 at 10:39
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2024 at 06:10
^^You wrote this thing I've quoted underneath, and what you wrote was mostly wrong. Also in regards to Fusion. Which is why fusion bands were brought up. No one has claimed that any prog band had the most selling album of the year in the USA (although Dark Side... did but that's not prog with a big P). That wasn't the criteria. ELP and Yes filled stadiums in the USA in the 1970's.



The Cal Jam was ABC-TV's first venture into live concerts. The California Jam's 10 hours of music was later cut up into four weekly hour long broadcasts, of which ELP and the other headliners (Deep Purple and Black Sabbath) were the biggest stars.

-So ELP headlined along with Deep Purple and Black Sabbath in front of an audience of 200 000 people. I don't think that would have happened if they weren't popular.

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^Neither prog nor fusion was "popular" in The States in the 70's. Genesis filled stadiums only when they changed to a more radio friendly format. King Crimson and ELP, weren't popular. Of the big six of prog only Pink Floyd and Jethro Tull were somewhat popular. Rush was an exception, but were more successful in the 80's.


Edited by Saperlipopette! - September 05 2024 at 06:15
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verslibre View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2024 at 09:55
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

The
Cal Jam was ABC-TV's first venture into live concerts. The California
Jam's 10 hours of music was later cut up into four weekly hour long
broadcasts, of which ELP and the other headliners (Deep Purple and Black
Sabbath) were the biggest stars.

-So
ELP headlined along with Deep Purple and Black Sabbath in front of an
audience of 200 000 people. I don't think that would have happened if
they weren't popular.


ELP was popular, no doubt about it.

Utopia definitely had a following. They toured extensively. No, they didn't pack huge arenas, but they played many famous venues like the Santa Monica Civic Auditorium, the Tower Theatre in Philly, and in Toronto, Massey Hall and Maple Leaf Gardens (where Rush filmed the Grace Under Pressure Tour concert video). That's apart from Todd performing solo.
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verslibre View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2024 at 09:56
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^Not my poll


But you brought it (fusion) up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2024 at 23:39
ELP seemed to be very popular in the USA, they played a lot of shows and put the leg work in. Led Zep were of course way more popular, no one would dispute that. ELP were only able to contemplate doing the orchestral shows in America because of the size of stadiums. Also looking at the Atlantic roster of bands it seemed that LZ, Yes and ELP were the main 3 in those days (mid to late seventies). 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2024 at 11:52

After some more listenings to Happy the Man's debut, I've ordered it, even I'm not quite sure that I can become very fond of it.
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2024 at 20:05
I like pieces of all of these artists (plus Todd Rundgren, Yezda Urfa, Babylon, Happy The Man, Starcastle, Boston, Journey, Art In America, Mercury Rev, et al.) my favorite album comes from Utopia (their first), but The Dan have many more songs from many more /  better albums than Utopia. 

And Zappa's 1970s avant/RIO isn't closer to J-R Fusion than these other bands music? (Love a lot of his music & compositional style; hate his potty mouth sophomoric lyrics).

Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/
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David_D View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2024 at 14:20
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

After some more listenings to Happy the Man's debut, I've ordered it, even I'm not quite sure that I can become very fond of it.

I think that this album is some of the highest quality American Progressive Rock from the '70s.

                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moonshake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2024 at 21:42
Frank Zappa
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