Tull vs. ELP

Tull has more good albums and fewer duds than ELP, but BSS, Trilogy and Tarkus are ahead of anything in the Tull catalog before I get to Thick as a Brick. Rounding out the top 5 would be ELP's debut. Based on the strength of ELP's first 4 studio albums as well as two really good live albums, Welcome Back My Friends and Pictures, I'm going with ELP.

Always found it interesting that ELP gets such criticism, even among fans of Progressive Rock and that they became the poster child of what was wrong with Prog.

Edited by Big Sky - November 19 2023 at 11:58

Jethro Tull.

richardh wrote: Big Sky wrote: Tull has more good albums and fewer duds than ELP, but BSS, Trilogy and Tarkus are ahead of anything in the Tull catalog before I get to Thick as a Brick. Rounding out the top 5 would be ELP's debut. Based on the strength of ELP's first 4 studio albums as well as two really good live albums, Welcome Back My Friends and Pictures, I'm going with ELP. Always found it interesting that ELP gets such criticism, even among fans of Progressive Rock and that they became the poster child of what was wrong with Prog. ELP were an easy target. Works Volume One may have been a step too far with the Piano Concerto for many but actually they were pushing upwards and onwards while the likes of Tull, VDGG, Yes and Genesis had changed nothing. Pink Floyd were the only other prog band that were actually also pushing but they had to deal with all sorts of sh*t at that time (1977) as well. For the most part ELP were more closely aligned with the heavy rock bands, just that they didn't need a guitarist because they had the late great Keith Emerson which was enough. I think it's a massive shame that so many prog fans blame them for prog's woes in the 70's but in reality it had more to do with a collective lack of new ideas and the moving towards fusion based rock which came across as just about the technique of playing and nothing else.

Richardh,

Works Volume One should have never had a side dedicated to each member. In a vacuum, there is some good stuff to be found, but that should have been left for solo albums by each member. The group pieces on side 4, a great adaptation of Aaron Copland's Fanfare for the Common Man and Pirates, the last great piece of music from ELP make for a terrific side of music. If the focus would have been on making a single album, I believe Works would have benefited for the good. In retrospect, with the solo pieces Works is a disjointed album, at least for me.

In a perfect world, Works would have been a single album with at least a decent side one to go with Fanfare and Pirates. That would have made for a very good album. Announce that it is their last album ( since they were already getting on each others nerves) and go out with a bang with a 77 World Tour. That would have made for 5 terrific studio albums and 2 excellent live albums in the rear view mirror. Document the hell out of the 77 Farewell tour, get some great live audio and video footage. Later release a live album of that tour. Later, still comes video of the tour with the obligatory box set with all sorts of live material and a book that goes into every detail of the Farewell Tour.

richardh wrote: Big Sky wrote: richardh wrote: Big Sky wrote: Tull has more good albums and fewer duds than ELP, but BSS, Trilogy and Tarkus are ahead of anything in the Tull catalog before I get to Thick as a Brick. Rounding out the top 5 would be ELP's debut. Based on the strength of ELP's first 4 studio albums as well as two really good live albums, Welcome Back My Friends and Pictures, I'm going with ELP. Always found it interesting that ELP gets such criticism, even among fans of Progressive Rock and that they became the poster child of what was wrong with Prog. ELP were an easy target. Works Volume One may have been a step too far with the Piano Concerto for many but actually they were pushing upwards and onwards while the likes of Tull, VDGG, Yes and Genesis had changed nothing. Pink Floyd were the only other prog band that were actually also pushing but they had to deal with all sorts of sh*t at that time (1977) as well. For the most part ELP were more closely aligned with the heavy rock bands, just that they didn't need a guitarist because they had the late great Keith Emerson which was enough. I think it's a massive shame that so many prog fans blame them for prog's woes in the 70's but in reality it had more to do with a collective lack of new ideas and the moving towards fusion based rock which came across as just about the technique of playing and nothing else.  Richardh, Works Volume One should have never had a side dedicated to each member. In a vacuum, there is some good stuff to be found, but that should have been left for solo albums by each member. The group pieces on side 4, a great adaptation of Aaron Copland's Fanfare for the Common Man and Pirates, the last great piece of music from ELP make for a terrific side of music. If the focus would have been on making a single album, I believe Works would have benefited for the good. In retrospect, with the solo pieces Works is a disjointed album, at least for me. In a perfect world, Works would have been a single album with at least a decent side one to go with Fanfare and Pirates. That would have made for a very good album. Announce that it is their last album ( since they were already getting on each others nerves) and go out with a bang with a 77 World Tour. That would have made for 5 terrific studio albums and 2 excellent live albums in the rear view mirror. Document the hell out of the 77 Farewell tour, get some great live audio and video footage. Later release a live album of that tour. Later, still comes video of the tour with the obligatory box set with all sorts of live material and a book that goes into every detail of the Farewell Tour. Hindsight is a great thing as they say! I suspect that Carl Palmer came out worst for all this. He had a brilliant solo album to go if you include his Percussion Concerto 1. Percussion Concerto (with James Blades) 2. LA Nights (with Joe Walsh) 3. Food For Your Soul (with The Harry South Orchestra) 4. Close But Not Touching (ditto) 5. Bullfrog (with members of jazz rock combo Back Door) The potential Emerson and Lake solo albums were actually pretty dull and not as interesting (hence why they went down the band route I think) A group album would have been: 1. Fanfare For The Common Man 2. Pirates 3. Tiger In A Spotlight 4. So Far To Fall 5. Show Me The Way To Go Home but is missing at least one track, maybe two. When The Apple Blossom Blooms and Brain Salad Sugery were not new so perhaps they could have come up with Canario and For You, the 2 decent tracks from Love Beach. Either that or use the Lake/Sinfield songs from Works but have full band involvement. Nothing really lends itself that easily though imo.

Canario is actually a good track off a not a good album. That added to Tiger in a Spotlight, Show Me the Way, So Far to Fall and For You makes for a pretty decent side of music. In my opinion, better than side 2 of Tarkus. Now, as good as Pirates and Fanfare are, they are not the title track from Tarkus. But, in the history of Prog, Tarkus is one of the all-timers. Further, Tarkus's legendary status is based on the strength of the title track to go with one of the great album covers. Still, in a make believe world, a reworked Works Volume One is a good album.

Jethro Tull. Both bands had their moments, but I think JT was more consistent over a longer stretch of time. If you want to get attention these days, you'll need a cement truck with a see-through mixer tank filled with TV dinners.

ELP, if only for the debut album, the ELPowell album, and Black Moon, all masterpieces in my book!

Steve Wyzard wrote: ELP, if only for the debut album, the ELPowell album, and Black Moon, all masterpieces in my book!

Both Equally.