Can we make a living from prog?

Slartibartfast wrote: sleeper wrote: thehallway wrote: If studio music were legally free, the whole business would boom again. Suddenly, it wouldn't be immoral to download tracks without paying, so more people such as myself would be able to do it, and everyone would be into music again. Obviously, no money to be made from this, however, bands would get far greater publicity from the rapid distribution of their music (it's free!). Therefore their live concerts would sell out, and the demand for tickets would determine the price of tickets. The added bonus is that the price you pay REALLY IS based on how good the band are, not how well they are promoted. Please, point of the flaws of this because I'm no businessman. But it sounds like it could work. That is an incredibly naieve statement.   Increasingly bands are doing everything themselves these days, cutting out record companies all together. Most bands will not make a living out of prog for the simple reason that the audiance isnt big enough, the best hope for most is that CD/download sales and ticket sales will cover the costs of production and touring allowing the band to break even. A few may be able to make enough through CD sales (having a large discography helps here) and other merch plus ticket sales on a carefully planned tour to just about scrape by, but the likes of Dream Theater, Rush, Porcupine Tree, Mastodon, Radiohead and Opeth are about it for bands that can comfortably live making prog music, and notice how only two of them have always been prog bands and didnt come from another genre. Kind of like lowering tax rates will generate more tax revenue.   The only way to generate more revenue is to cut out those who make money off the music while contributing nothing to it.

I don't get why he's calling me naive when he's agreeing with me?

Making a living doing music of any kind has always been hard. Prog is especially hard because it's a narrow niche. I think that electronic media does make it easier to get the word out and get started.

Toby Driver has a huge following here, but works a day job to pay the bills. 

thehallway wrote: Slartibartfast wrote: sleeper wrote: thehallway wrote: If studio music were legally free, the whole business would boom again. Suddenly, it wouldn't be immoral to download tracks without paying, so more people such as myself would be able to do it, and everyone would be into music again. Obviously, no money to be made from this, however, bands would get far greater publicity from the rapid distribution of their music (it's free!). Therefore their live concerts would sell out, and the demand for tickets would determine the price of tickets. The added bonus is that the price you pay REALLY IS based on how good the band are, not how well they are promoted. Please, point of the flaws of this because I'm no businessman. But it sounds like it could work. That is an incredibly naieve statement.   Increasingly bands are doing everything themselves these days, cutting out record companies all together. Most bands will not make a living out of prog for the simple reason that the audiance isnt big enough, the best hope for most is that CD/download sales and ticket sales will cover the costs of production and touring allowing the band to break even. A few may be able to make enough through CD sales (having a large discography helps here) and other merch plus ticket sales on a carefully planned tour to just about scrape by, but the likes of Dream Theater, Rush, Porcupine Tree, Mastodon, Radiohead and Opeth are about it for bands that can comfortably live making prog music, and notice how only two of them have always been prog bands and didnt come from another genre. Kind of like lowering tax rates will generate more tax revenue.   The only way to generate more revenue is to cut out those who make money off the music while contributing nothing to it. I don't get why he's calling me naive when he's agreeing with me?

I'm not agreeing with you, it costs money to hire studios (or build your own), producers, engineers, artists and anyone else working with the band. This money usually comes from a label or the band themselves, and then they have to spend money on markating. How do you think they are going to get that money back if they dont sell the CD's. The rapid distrabution idea doesnt work because people wont know about these bands without the marketing, which will probably be limited to just posting on forums and facebook.

thehallway wrote: No need for record companies though..... if the albums are free. Meaning the musicians and their manager get ALL the money from tours and all the side-things, and can handle production costs themselves (if there are any..... digital files are basically free from expense right?).

Edited by moshkito - January 25 2011 at 15:18

thehallway wrote: I said get rid of the record companies in another post in this thread, and the donation thing. Anyway the point was...... the fact that the music is free will be enough marketing in itself. Within a few days I could have downloaded every single album on this website (well, maybe not but you get the idea!)...... and so, even if a band doesn't look like the best thing since The Beatles, there's no risk, you can download it anyway and delete it if it's crap. The money comes from touring: which would be massive arenas if there were lots of fans. If the music is good there will be lots of fans. Thus, it would be massive arenas if the music was good. People will pay up to see live music that, at no cost, they fell in love with. Obviously, the system doesn't work if your band is terrible. But that's a good thing right?

Thats just wishful thinking. Prog is a niche genre and the vast majority of the bands we love here arent going anywhere near an arena regardless of what crazy business modle you care to put up. And the end of the day it all comes down to the fact that it costs money to make and you have to sell to get the money back or it wont take long for there to be no bands at all.

lazland wrote: zravkapt wrote: I might be crazy, but I think I've read that because of the internet(filesharing, streaming, YouTube, etc.), some smaller artists are selling more copies to people who otherwise would have never heard of them.  I don't think you are crazy. I have read this in a number of interviews.

I've heard this as well. I can't speak for others, but I know for a fact that there are a ton of prog artist that I never would have bought albums from if I hadn't found them online because I'd have never known they existed in the first place.

Plus, I'd like to think that because prog is such a niche genre, fans would be more likely to pay for the music so the artists can get support to make more music. I have nothing to back that up though. :P

I think that some bands aren't interested in selling CDs.  Case study:  Over the last month or so I've been trying to get hold of a CD by a little known band who maintain a website in order to give info about upcoming gigs, etc and also presumably to sell CDs.   I sent an email, and received no reply, then phoned and was informed that if I left my address the CD would be posted to me so I sent another email and received no reply.  I left a polite message on the website enquiring whether the CD was still available because I had as yet received no reply, another person contacted me and informed me that she would  contact the band and they would definitely send me the CD.  I'm still waiting...    Perhaps I'm wrong about this, but I feel that an injustice has been done to me.   Despite the fact that the album is available by streaming, I want to have the CD.

Conclusion?  I think that distributing and selling CDs is a very important part of forming a loyal fanbase, despite the fact that it may not be their chief source of income.  Bands shouldn't just rely on ticket sales for income and if they want to reach a wider audience they need to get their music out to people and I don't just mean a few tracks on MySpace, there are still plenty of people who want to show their appreciation by buying CDs or going to concerts.  So CDs should be made available to those who wish to buy them.  Unfortunately it's not always practical or possible for all of us to attend concerts.  If I want to go to a concert, I have to travel about 200 kilometers.


Edited by cacha71 - January 26 2011 at 05:23

For the 1 in a million kind of guy, sure.

For you and everyone you know, nope.

Interesting article on the BBC today about "has pop gone posh?". One of the answers is that there is no money in music these days so people have to have lots of money to be able to afford a music career in the first place.