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Topic ClosedHow can I give rates to the records?

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Ricochet View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2009 at 07:08
Almost 4 years of being on PA and I still haven't rated an album without reviewing. Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2009 at 07:18
Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

Almost 4 years of being on PA and I still haven't rated an album without reviewing. Wink


Neither have I, and I'm not going to start any time soonWink.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2009 at 08:21
Shocked

remembers me that I still have some ratings only leftover from the early beginning of my career here Big smile



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2009 at 08:24
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

Almost 4 years of being on PA and I still haven't rated an album without reviewing. Wink


Neither have I, and I'm not going to start any time soonWink.


You can do that at PF ... that's what I made the website for. Be Dr. Jekyll here and Mr. Hyde at my place ... Big smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2009 at 08:44
Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

Almost 4 years of being on PA and I still haven't rated an album without reviewing. Wink
 
Neither do I, as a fact I believe no Collaborator or member should do it, as Tony said once, ratings without reviews are mainly for members with problems writing in English.
 
Iván
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2009 at 08:59
^ And that's always a stretched un-official rule. If I would personally know English poorly (or not at all), I wouldn't join an English site in the first place.

Beyond the fact that rating without reviewing is a blank, lazy way of appreciating an album (in some cases - I'm talking here about the negative pole), it takes to access 3-4 links to visualize the list of ratings without reviews (and 90% of the readers will automatically not do that at all), plus the rate counts so little, it's close to insignificant. Putting myself in the situation of a RWR, with the abovementioned in mind, I would hardly feel motivated to leave my "tiny" signature.

Ergo, rating without reviewing makes almost no sense. I read, in average, 20 new reviews every day I wake up and end the day reading 30 to 50 other new reviews. That's a sign that PA is way more than ratings, maths, tops & such.

(There, I've ranted. Tongue)


Edited by Ricochet - January 14 2009 at 09:01
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Mr ProgFreak View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2009 at 09:26
^ I disagree. It's true that here, where RWRs aren't shown and users can't edit them and they carry little weight in the rating algorithm, they make very little sense. However, the way they're implemented at PF the situation is very different IMO. You might have the time to read dozens of reviews each day, I don't. I need ratings and tags to narrow down the list of albums to choose from.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2009 at 09:32
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

Almost 4 years of being on PA and I still haven't rated an album without reviewing. Wink


Neither have I, and I'm not going to start any time soonWink.


You can do that at PF ... that's what I made the website for. Be Dr. Jekyll here and Mr. Hyde at my place ... Big smile
 
That sounds about "write".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2009 at 09:37
Or how about this: Be a do-gooder here and a freak at PF.LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2009 at 10:11
Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

Almost 4 years of being on PA and I still haven't rated an album without reviewing. Wink


1 year, and I haven't reviewed an album without rating itTongueWink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2009 at 11:05
Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

^ And that's always a stretched un-official rule. If I would personally know English poorly (or not at all), I wouldn't join an English site in the first place.

Beyond the fact that rating without reviewing is a blank, lazy way of appreciating an album (in some cases - I'm talking here about the negative pole), it takes to access 3-4 links to visualize the list of ratings without reviews (and 90% of the readers will automatically not do that at all), plus the rate counts so little, it's close to insignificant. Putting myself in the situation of a RWR, with the abovementioned in mind, I would hardly feel motivated to leave my "tiny" signature.

Ergo, rating without reviewing makes almost no sense. I read, in average, 20 new reviews every day I wake up and end the day reading 30 to 50 other new reviews. That's a sign that PA is way more than ratings, maths, tops & such.

(There, I've ranted. Tongue)
 
You know Rico I'm an enemy of the RWR, because I honestly don't trust them, i don't know if the user has even heard the album, I read the reviews, I can't care less for the rating, but it's not my call.
 
It's also true I wouldn't join a site in Japanese or Russian, because I would be loosing my time.
 
As you say in your quoted post, I never read the RWR, because it's silly, I don't even knoww the name of the person, only an Internet nick, so..........What's the point of knowing that I'm_a_styx_fan rated The Grand Illusion with 5 stars?
 
Iván
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2009 at 11:10
Originally posted by Mr ProgFreak Mr ProgFreak wrote:

Or how about this: Be a do-gooder here and a freak at PF.LOL


I've only written one review at PF, but I've gotten up to about 90-something ratings!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2009 at 11:59
I have 1155 ratings on ProgFreak, almost all without reviews, although some at least have quick comments.  I have only reviewed about 30 albums here on PA, all with reviews. Like it or not, ProgFreak is going to give anyone interested in my tastes a better idea of what I like and don't like than PA will.  I've considered adding reviews without ratings here as "temporary" placeholders until I get around to writing the actual reviews, but at my current pace of writing reviews it would probably take me about 50 years to write all of the reviews that I would have to write. 
 
I think that ratings without reviews come in handy in cases where you know the reviewer's tastes either from reading other reviews or talking to them in the forums.  I think they also come in handy when you are unfamiliar with a reviewer of a particular album but you can compare their tastes with another common album.  i.e. There is no need for me to write the 510th review of Close to the Edge, but since it is such a landmark album it might be a good idea to tell people that I think it is a 5 star album even if I don't have a new and creative way to write about it.  I have no idea if anybody else uses this comparison method or not, but I know that on occasion if I read a review on the front page from someone I am not familiar with and it intrigues me I will look to see what else that person has reviewed to see how their tastes compare with mine.  Obviously, a review with words will tell me more, but a rating might suffice in this instance too. 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2009 at 13:18
Scott, please explain me what's the point of reading individual votes in a rating alone?
 
In RWR the only thing that matters is the final average, in a review, you read it, you learn what the person says about a band or an album, you read arguments, thoughts and feelings.
 
I honestly believe RWR should be eliminated, but again, this is not my call and M@X has valid reasons to believe in this system.
 
Iván
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2009 at 13:30
^ I think what Scott means is that there's a big difference between anonymous ratings and ones by people you know - either from other reviews or from forum discussions. Also, even if you don't know the people behind the rating, looking at all their ratings tells you something about them. That's how I calculate the "Related Users" on the profile pages ... I simply check the database for users which gave albums similar ratings.

You're welcome to favor reviews and reject ratings ... I would say that they both have their advantages and disadvantages. I'd agree with Scott that the main problem about reviews is that they take so long to write. Most of us simply don't have the time to write a review for every album we like ... and that's where ratings can be quite useful.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2009 at 13:37
When I want to buy, say, a metal album I don't know anything about, I go to a website (say, metal-archives), check ratings for it, then see the reviews of those who rated it, and I also check other ratings by those reviewers for albums I've already heard. that gives me a good idea of what to expect. In the end, the actual INFO is gathered from the text of the review, not from the rating, but rating, at the same time, ar like a quick way to see, for example in this case, if a reviewer agrees with your overall tastes or not.
 
Both are useful. In theor own worlds.
 
Here, I haven't yet rated an album without reviewing it and I never will. And, even more: since a few months ago, I will review every album I hear Shocked... The lack of reviews by yours truly is surely an indication of the metallic ride he's been on lately...  Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2009 at 14:25
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Scott, please explain me what's the point of reading individual votes in a rating alone?
 
In RWR the only thing that matters is the final average, in a review, you read it, you learn what the person says about a band or an album, you read arguments, thoughts and feelings.
 
I honestly believe RWR should be eliminated, but again, this is not my call and M@X has valid reasons to believe in this system.
 
Iván
 
If I am naive enough to believe the reviewer is following the PA review guidelines set forth on the review page then RWR's mean exactly this.
 
5 star = prog rock masterpiece
4 star = excellent addition to any prog collection
3 star = good, but not essential
2 star = fans/collectors
1 star = poor/for completionists only
 
 
As I have said numerous times in numerous threads, I do feel that a well-written review explaining the reason for a rating is far more valuable than a rating without a review.  But what I am saying here is a rating without review is more valuable than no rating at all.  My tastes aren't in line with many people here on PA, but there are a handful of people that are brothers from another mother or from whom I was separated at birth as we have similiar tastes.  For those people, it might be interesting to them to know that I think the Umphrey's McGee albums are all 4-star albums, or that 1 is a 5-star, 2 are 4-stars and 1 is a 3-star.   Sure it would be better if I had a review that said that the music made me feel a certain way, and this particular song blew my socks off, but until such time that I get around to writing that review, a rating without review would make a decent "temporary" placeholder.  Sure this rating may only be of any value to a select few people.  However, those who know my tastes from either reading my blog, or talking to me in the forums, or just seeing all the things that I am listening to in the What Are You Listening to Now?, thread there is that possibility that they might want to know what I think about some obscure album that they ran across and they remember seeing me listen to it.  And of course, they could always PM me or ask me in the forums what I really thought about it, if they know that I have heard it. 
 
For users who don't know me from Adam a rating without a review is probably virtually worthless. But for example, the album from Tin Scribble currently has 0 reviews.  One of these days I will and I should write a review for it.  If I were to add an RWR with a 4 star, that would mean that there was at least one person who thought that it was an excellent addition to a prog collection.  If you were to investigate my reviews further and see that I gave Opeth all 5 star RWRs and Genesis all 1 star RWRs, you would probably immediately come to the conclusion that my 4-star rating for Tin Scribble didn't mean that it was a 4-star for you, or at least it might make you skeptical about my 4 star rating. 
 
It certainly isn't an exact science, but neither are ratings with reviews.  I've certainly read raving 5-star reviews here on PA for albums that I felt were complete rubbish, and 1 star reviews for albums that I thought were quite excellent. 


Edited by rushfan4 - January 14 2009 at 14:29
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2009 at 15:05
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

 
If I am naive enough to believe the reviewer is following the PA review guidelines set forth on the review page then RWR's mean exactly this.
 
5 star = prog rock masterpiece
4 star = excellent addition to any prog collection
3 star = good, but not essential
2 star = fans/collectors
1 star = poor/for completionists only
 
 
Until there we agree, please don't over simplify, but in a RwR the only thing that matters is the GENERAL AVERAGE, not who gave the individual rating, because all votes are worth the same, the responsible people as you and the fanboys who come to vote for their favorite band, so i will never know who rated which album for a valid reason if there's not a review
 
As I have said numerous times in numerous threads, I do feel that a well-written review explaining the reason for a rating is far more valuable than a rating without a review.  But what I am saying here is a rating without review is more valuable than no rating at all. 
 
That's where I disagree, for me a rating alone is worth almost nothing, because for one Rushfan who does an honest rating, we have ten trolls or fanboys.
 
 My tastes aren't in line with many people here on PA, but there are a handful of people that are brothers from another mother or from whom I was separated at birth as we have similiar tastes.  For those people, it might be interesting to them to know that I think the Umphrey's McGee albums are all 4-star albums, or that 1 is a 5-star, 2 are 4-stars and 1 is a 3-star.   
 
Well, if somebody specifically is searching for your ratings, well, that could be a reason.
 
Sure it would be better if I had a review that said that the music made me feel a certain way, and this particular song blew my socks off, but until such time that I get around to writing that review, a rating without review would make a decent "temporary" placeholder.  Sure this rating may only be of any value to a select few people.  However, those who know my tastes from either reading my blog, or talking to me in the forums, or just seeing all the things that I am listening to in the What Are You Listening to Now?, thread there is that possibility that they might want to know what I think about some obscure album that they ran across and they remember seeing me listen to it.  And of course, they could always PM me or ask me in the forums what I really thought about it, if they know that I have heard it. 
 
The common visitor or the member who never joins that thread won't ever know it, includinng myself
 
For users who don't know me from Adam a rating without a review is probably virtually worthless. But for example, the album from Tin Scribble currently has 0 reviews.  One of these days I will and I should write a review for it.  If I were to add an RWR with a 4 star, that would mean that there was at least one person who thought that it was an excellent addition to a prog collection.  If you were to investigate my reviews further and see that I gave Opeth all 5 star RWRs and Genesis all 1 star RWRs, you would probably immediately come to the conclusion that my 4-star rating for Tin Scribble didn't mean that it was a 4-star for you, or at least it might make you skeptical about my 4 star rating. 
 
Not necesarilly, because i don't know the reasons why you rated Tin Scribble with 4 stars, maybe it's a valid one for me and i also like the album, I'm sure that if you rate Opeth high (I like the music, hate the growls), we won't agree, but if you rate Symphony X high with good reasons, i will probably give the album a chance.
 
It certainly isn't an exact science, but neither are ratings with reviews.  I've certainly read raving 5-star reviews here on PA for albums that I felt were complete rubbish, and 1 star reviews for albums that I thought were quite excellent. 
 
ClapClapClap THAT'S EXACTLY MY POINNT.
 
If I read a 1 or 5 stars rating without review, I don't know the reasons, i don't even know if you even heard the album or just love the band, as a fact i know nothing about you with a simple rating
 
If I read a terrible 5 stars review of Foxtrot (even when I love the album) and says a lot of aberrations, i won't ever care again for that reviewer, but now with valid reasons and arguments enough.
 
If I see a guy writing an excellent review about Opeth saying for example "I don't like the growls, but the music is so outstasnding that I can resist the growls", I will trust this person, because I believe Opeth music is great, the voice is what i can't stand. probably the Opeth guy will have more in common with me, but i wouldn't know that until I read a review. 
 
I once read a review of Nursery Cryme from a girl who said something like "Peter is so sexy that i have to rate it with ten stars"...As you will guess, I won't trust that person and most likely we have nothing in common (I assure you, I don't find men sexy LOL).
 
So, in my case, I hardly care who rated an album if there's not a review tio support it, and the site guidelines seem to point that way, because rwr weight almost noting.
 
Cheers
 
Iván

            
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Angelo View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2009 at 15:13
Oh my, how off topic did this go...

Think I'm going to compose an epic on this - imagine a 7/4 acoustic guitar intro underneath this lyrics, and then probably a Hammond or a flute joining in:

I don't look at the stars
They're too remote
What interests me
Is what the listener wrote

Wink
ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected]
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2009 at 15:16
Originally posted by Angelo Angelo wrote:

Oh my, how off topic did this go...

Think I'm going to compose an epic on this - imagine a 7/4 acoustic guitar intro underneath this lyrics, and then probably a Hammond or a flute joining in:

I don't look at the stars
They're too remote
What interests me
Is what the listener wrote

Wink
 
Hey Angelo, it's very interesting to understand people's opinions even if you don't agree.
 
BTW: Love your quartet. LOL
 
Iván
            
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