Recording music on the PC ... |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21250 |
Posted: July 24 2008 at 03:04 |
My computer is 64bit ... but that has nothing to do with performance. It's simply a different architecture - the main difference is that you can use more memory (I have 4GB).
Thanks for bothering though - I really appreciate the effort. I know the Ableton FAQ section, and the bit you posted is not related to my problem, unfortunately. |
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: July 24 2008 at 03:36 |
Ah - you mentioned Vista.
Despite all the claims, most musician friends of mine have found that Vista suffers more from latency than XP did - due to a design flaw in the new WaveRT subsystem, and the fact that WaveRT doesn't work with external audio devices and falls back to an emulator of the old DirectSound (WDM+ASIO support) subsystem that performs somewhat poorly compared to Windows XP.
On the Sonar forums, people have mentioned disabling multiprocessor support and UPPING the latency to 15ms (apparently this actually works for some people!), because although Sonar supports WaveRT, the drivers typically don't, and when 7ms or lower has been set, all kinds of glitches appear.
Note that increasing the buffer does not necessarily increase the latency in Vista.
It's improved in Vista SP1 - but not for USB devices, as you'll also note from the MSDN article that the audio engine calls for an exclusive mode event-driven capture, which only works with PCI.
I'd be happy to be proved wrong, and am interested to see how you get on.
Edited by Certif1ed - July 24 2008 at 03:50 |
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Vompatti
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: October 22 2005 Location: elsewhere Status: Offline Points: 67421 |
Posted: July 24 2008 at 03:58 |
Are the system requirements for the Toneport really as high as stated? For the Toneport UX1 they are:
Pentium IV 1.2GHz or better (2.5GHz or more recommended) 512MB RAM minimum (1GB or more recommended) while a similar devide, M-Audio Fasttrack USB only requires a Pentium II 350 w/ 64MB RAM. Is this because of the software that comes with the Toneport or what? |
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: July 24 2008 at 04:16 |
Actually, I wouldn't have thought the requirements were that high, just to run the Toneport - but even so, a P4 1.2 Ghz processor is a very low spec indeed these days. That spec for the M-Audio is prehistoric - surely no-one attempts to run a music studio on something as pitiful as that? You couldn't run Windows XP on it, that's for certain, let alone a DAW.
The M-Audio is in no way a similar device to the TonePort - maybe the soundcard bit is, but the all-important amp-modelling is a million miles away from what the FastTrack does.
512Mb RAM is optimistic for any home recording environment - and so is a 1.2Ghz processor.
I'm running a dual core 3.2Ghz processor, with 2Gb RAM and a SATAII disk subsystem - and with a >5 minute track, loading and saving projects can take a couple of minutes (which feels like a long time). DAWs are incredibly resource-hungry, and need plenty of RAM, a fast CPU, a well-optimised Operating System, a decent soundcard and above all, a very fast and LARGE disk subsystem. I have 1Tb, and it's beginning to feel too small.
The Line6 software isn't noticeably resource hungry, though - I'll take a look at the Mem/CPU usage when I fire up "the studio" tonigh.
Edited by Certif1ed - July 24 2008 at 04:19 |
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21250 |
Posted: July 24 2008 at 04:49 |
Ableton doesn't currently support WaveRT - I use ASIO. The KB37 should arrive soon ... once it's installed I'll install some other software to test it, including Sonar. I'll definitely check out whether WaveRT works. |
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: July 24 2008 at 05:15 |
^The point is that you're using ASIO, and Vista kludges around it - ASIO/WDM performance is notably worse for latency under Vista than it is under Windows XP.
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21250 |
Posted: July 24 2008 at 05:33 |
^ well, I won't go back to XP again ... I guess this simply means that I'll have to live with ~10ms latency for the time being. As long as I can use direct monitoring for recording guitar, it's not that much of a problem anyway ... and keyboards are recorded as midi anyway, and with 10ms latency I can use quantisation to improve the accuracy. Currently I'm just fooling around anyway.
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: July 24 2008 at 07:20 |
^Out of interest, what happens if you disable multiprocessor support (assuming your processor is either hyperthreaded or dual core, in which case the mechanisms to disable "multi" processor are different) and increase the latency?
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21250 |
Posted: July 24 2008 at 08:11 |
^ I want to decrease latency ... if I increase it everything's fine. I'll try disabling multiprocessor support though. This is usually what you have to do ... make a change and see if there's an improvement, if not then reverse the change and look for something else.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21250 |
Posted: July 25 2008 at 05:29 |
Well ... last night I found a solution: I installed a different ASIO driver (http://www.asio4all.com), and suddenly all the problems just disappeared. I'm now able to use the lowest buffer setting, resulting in a latency of only 2-4ms ... without any dropouts or synchronisation problems, even with heavy cpu & disk load.
Thanks for all your suggestions ... and if you ever need to use ASIO, check out that driver! It should work with any device which is capable of ASIO. Edited by MikeEnRegalia - July 25 2008 at 05:30 |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21250 |
Posted: July 25 2008 at 05:33 |
Since you asked: Yesterday I tried disabling multiprocessor support ... but it had a dramatic impact on overall performance. I used the Ableton Live Suite demo project, which utilizes several software instruments and audio effects ... apparently they're each running in separate threads. It was amazing to see (with multiprocessor support enabled) how small the performance impact really is ... I'm tempted to buy the Gearbox Plug-In and record the guitars dry, so I can tweak all settings (except choice of pickup of course) after the fact. |
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: July 25 2008 at 06:34 |
I've bought the plugin - it's really cool.
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21250 |
Posted: July 25 2008 at 07:20 |
^ the only problem with the generic ASIO driver is that it only supports inputs 1&2 of the Line6 interface ... in order to use the plugin I would need to use direct monitoring of the processed signal, but route the unprocessed signal to the DAW. Well, *maybe* the latency is low enough that I can use the plug-in for monitoring. Maybe if I use headphones ... after all, 1 meter distance between the ear and the cabinet adds approx. 3ms latency too.
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: July 25 2008 at 07:50 |
Would you stand 1m away from this; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY7mvH8wFdE&NR=1
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21250 |
Posted: July 25 2008 at 07:54 |
^ what's that ... a 16x12 cabinet?
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: July 25 2008 at 09:43 |
A 16x12 HALF STACK under a 25-valve, 600-Watt Crate Amp.
Sounds like poop, though.
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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weetabix
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 20 2008 Status: Offline Points: 170 |
Posted: September 10 2008 at 07:21 |
Does anyone else have an ACID MUSIC STUDIO by Sony? Maybe i bit off a little more than i can chew but when I bought the thing it was cheap and had a picture of this teen w**ker on the box, playing a Strat, I thought it would be easy to operate but it is not .
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: September 10 2008 at 13:12 |
I've never used ACID Music Studio, but I've used Express, which is OK. It's not particularly "easy", but once you've learned the quirks, I find it the best DAW software I've ever used - and I've tried Sonar, Cubase and many of the other big names. It suits my way of working... I got a 2nd hand copy of ACID Pro v3 on eBay, and it's brilliant - but a friend of mine has v6, which is just superb - you can move takes between tracks, which is the one feature I really, really need.
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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jimidom
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 02 2007 Location: Houston, TX USA Status: Offline Points: 570 |
Posted: September 10 2008 at 14:45 |
I don't own Music Studio, but I've been a faithful ACID Pro user for about 5 years, ever since version 4. It certainly isn't easy, but it is much simpler than either Sonar or Cubase in my experience.
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"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - HST
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weetabix
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 20 2008 Status: Offline Points: 170 |
Posted: September 11 2008 at 08:15 |
Well to further whine about this ACID sh*te,It sounds like a tin speaker, and fuzzy at times and it's constantly out of sync. I need to know what I am doing wrong (if anyone has one of these things) and maybe, I hope not, I should buy a better piece of sh*te? Sony doesn't answer my E-s.
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