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Topic ClosedBoston???
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Poll Question: Should Boston be given a spot in prog related?
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29 [70.73%]
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Points: 6890 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2007 at 20:25
Whaa?
 
Are we talking about the one album wonder whom are considered a staple calssic rock band.
 
No, no... no.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2007 at 20:39
Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

Todd Rundgren (not included, but apparently could be if somebody was willing to step up and do a bit of work on it.)
Embarrassed I guess that means me as I am the only member of the Xover team who hasn't heard any of his solo work.
 
....Ah Grud! Unhappy Now Boston - you got me there too - I have no knowledge of them either so would be hearing them with fresh ears. But since Micky has already indicated "no" for Xover, that's academic.
 
However I do agree with Logan - if a band cannot be seriously considered for a true prog sub, then they shouldn't be put in PR either. Any controversy should err towards Prog, not away from it (ie "X are far to Prog to be PR" type arguments).


Edited by darqdean - November 11 2007 at 20:40
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Points: 19236 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2007 at 20:42

Strictly arena rock.
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Points: 46833 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2007 at 21:00
Dean... we can take up Boston for Xover.. but do recommend bringing your athletic supporter with the big ass cup.. and even a  bulletproof vest to our meetings.  We might need as squad to SAS troops to keep us from getting mowed down as we enjoy our linguine and chianti LOL

btw. I'll get you some Rundgren so we had put that baby to rest....


Edited by micky - November 11 2007 at 21:01
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Points: 3252 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2007 at 22:35
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT_jCPSGrao
 
 AWESOME AOR band but not prog imo
 
 
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Points: 46833 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2007 at 23:03
Originally posted by markosherrera markosherrera wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT_jCPSGrao
 AWESOME AOR band but not prog imo
 
 


LOL  thanks ...  all us who thought they were can sleep easy now...



say 3 times please....

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42309

but thanks for proving my point why these polls are useless Clap
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Points: 2755 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2007 at 23:35
Originally posted by cynthiasmallet cynthiasmallet wrote:

I say No. Once Boston are In, that will open the door for the likes of Journey, Toto and Phil Collins, which will lead to the likes of Chris DeBurgh and Barry White. Before you know it we will be crawling around on our hands and knees flinging our own s**t at our PC monitors.
 
Phil Collins and Toto both have a strong case for prog-related in my opinion.  (Not that I'm a fan of Toto by any means.)
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Points: 2755 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2007 at 23:40
Originally posted by darqdean darqdean wrote:

Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

Todd Rundgren (not included, but apparently could be if somebody was willing to step up and do a bit of work on it.)
Embarrassed I guess that means me as I am the only member of the Xover team who hasn't heard any of his solo work.
 
 
Start with Initiation, and then A Wizard, A True Star.   The argument I've made with Todd is that if Utopia is included, so should he be, so judge him on that basis.
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2007 at 00:01
Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

 
Phil Collins and Toto both have a strong case for prog-related in my opinion.  (Not that I'm a fan of Toto by any means.)
 
Why is people obsessed with adding non Prog or Prog Related artists, instead of caring about real Prog bands?
 
Phil Collins has no reason to be in Prog Related, the definition is clear:
 
Quote

Progressive rock is not a separate universe in music, it’s a genre among many others, a voice in the chorus and as part of a biggest scenario has points of contact with other musical genres.

Prog Related is the category that groups bands and artists that:

- Without being 100% Prog, received clear MUSICAL influence of this genre, OR

- Are widely accepted as MUSICALLY influential to the development of Progressive Rock by the community, OR

- Blend characteristics of Progressive Rock with mainstream elements creating a final product that despite not being part of the genre is evident that are close to Prog.

We specify the word MUSICAL because simple performance of a determined instrument in a Prog or mainstream band is not justification enough to include an artist, no matter how virtuoso he/she may be, Prog Archives has to evaluate their compositional work because the music is what determines the characteristics of a band or an artist.

Prog Related bands are not considered part of the genre but they have contributed in some form in the development of Progressive Rock, the inclusion of a band is exceptional and only after verifying that it’s a contribution for the better understanding of Prog among the members and visitors instead of a source of confusion for the community.
http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive-rock.asp#38 

Phil Collins has never released a single Prog song or similar to Prog or related to Prog in any sense during his solo career, so it's absurd, the relation must bne MUSICAL.
 
Phil Collins dioesn't fall in any of those situations.
 
Toto is ridiculoyus, after Roxana, Hollyana, Hold the Line, Africa, Georgy Porgy, etc etc etc, that are simple POP tracks blended with diluted Jazz, they released one  song that could be considered remotely related and that's Child's Anthem, one song in more than 20 albums doesn't justify their inclusion.
 
Neither Boston, not a single Prog or similar to prog or related to prog track.
 
Check Prog bands, this is a Prog site.
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 12 2007 at 00:04
            
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Points: 2755 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2007 at 02:41
It would be clearly idiotic to claim that a guy who PLAYED in one of the seminal progressive rock bands was not the slightest bit influenced MUSICALLYy by what he had spent a decade playing., and no doubt Phil Collins fans, should there be any, could point out exactly where those influences manifest themselves.  So condition #1 is clearly fulfilled for Collins, and a strong argument could be made on that basis for the Pocaros' as well.
 
As a recent thread has declared, prog-related is not prog.  Your standards don't match your requirements.
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Points: 15585 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2007 at 03:37
I hear what you say Ivan, and thankfully this thread has so far been devoid of such comments. In times past though, even though the wording of the question was clear, we still got posts saying "no because they are not prog".
 
For me, the question here is would adding Boston to the site bring in people who would be interested in prog? I believe the answer to that is a definite YES.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2007 at 05:47
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Dean... we can take up Boston for Xover.. but do recommend bringing your athletic supporter with the big ass cup.. and even a  bulletproof vest to our meetings.  We might need as squad to SAS troops to keep us from getting mowed down as we enjoy our linguine and chianti LOL

btw. I'll get you some Rundgren so we had put that baby to rest....
I wouldn't want to pit the SAS against the massed ranks of the Prog Battalions, it would be a blood-bath Cry
 
 
What?
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Points: 24429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2007 at 05:59
LOLLOLLOL
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Points: 183 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2007 at 06:00
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

I hear what you say Ivan, and thankfully this thread has so far been devoid of such comments. In times past though, even though the wording of the question was clear, we still got posts saying "no because they are not prog".
 
For me, the question here is would adding Boston to the site bring in people who would be interested in prog? I believe the answer to that is a definite YES.
 
And for me this is a case like the case of Journey or Toto (more Toto, of course!).


Edited by Lady In Black - November 12 2007 at 06:00
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Points: 183 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2007 at 06:06
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

[
 
Neither Boston, not a single Prog or similar to prog or related to prog track.
 
Check Prog bands, this is a Prog site.
 
Iván
 
Improper sentence Ivan, because if PR isn't a genre this sentence isn't totally correct because It seems to make understand that PR is a genre, thing that isn't.
 
This is the motive for which they made these proposals of inclusions.  It isn't clear the concept of family, to apply, according to me, also to true genres. 
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Points: 401 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2007 at 08:51
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Toto is ridiculoyus, after Roxana, Hollyana, Hold the Line, Africa, Georgy Porgy, etc etc etc, that are simple POP tracks blended with diluted Jazz, they released one  song that could be considered remotely related and that's Child's Anthem, one song in more than 20 albums doesn't justify their inclusion.
 
Neither Boston, not a single Prog or similar to prog or related to prog track.
 
Check Prog bands, this is a Prog site.
 
Iván
You obviously stopped listening Toto at an early stage. Your miss, not mine.
 
When thinking about prog, Boston is not the first name that comes to my mind (nor is Toto or Journey), but the argument can be made for some of their single songs. I'm in favour of the fact that complete discographies are here (if not, discussions could really go on forever), but it's clear that a lot of bands are only partly prog (Genesis as the fairest example). The same goes for Prog Related and Proto Prog: most included bands were only fitting the PR or PP definition in a part of their career.
 
Perhaps we can define that 'part' a bit, rather than making the obvious popular laughs?
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2007 at 11:22
Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

It would be clearly idiotic to claim that a guy who PLAYED in one of the seminal progressive rock bands was not the slightest bit influenced MUSICALLYy by what he had spent a decade playing., and no doubt Phil Collins fans, should there be any, could point out exactly where those influences manifest themselves.  So condition #1 is clearly fulfilled for Collins, and a strong argument could be made on that basis for the Pocaros' as well.
 
 
In first place, if nobody tells you, I won't accept to qualify my opinions of idiotic, this is disrespectful.
 
Second: In his SOLO CAREER Phil Collins din nothing related to Prog, we don't add a musician because he played in a Prog band, if not Billy Joel would be here because he played in a semi Prog band called Attila.
 
Focus in his solo carrer. noty a single Prog or Prog Related song.
 
BTW;: For the person who accused me of having heard all Toto, I stated before, I have all Toto albums because my sister is a fan, and I don't see anything Prog in them.
 
And saying Prog Related is not Prog doesn't mean the artist doesn't has at least to be related MUSICALLY.
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 12 2007 at 11:23
            
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2007 at 11:44
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

I hear what you say Ivan, and thankfully this thread has so far been devoid of such comments. In times past though, even though the wording of the question was clear, we still got posts saying "no because they are not prog".
 
Seems you're not reading my posts Bob, I clearly said No because Boston IS NOT PROG RELATED, I repeated 5 or 6 times the term Prog Related and i know what it means.
 
For me, the question here is would adding Boston to the site bring in people who would be interested in prog? I believe the answer to that is a definite YES.
 
Is this the new requirement to add  a band to Prog Related?
 
Then lets bring Michael Jackson, Elton John, Europe, ABBA, they will bring more people to the site.
 
If it's already decided,. i'm wasting my time un this thrad, sorry for concerning about the credibility and accuracy of the site.
 
 
Now the second:
 
Originally posted by Lady In Black Lady In Black wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

[
 
Neither Boston, not a single Prog or similar to prog or related to prog track.
 
Check Prog bands, this is a Prog site.
 
Iván
 
Improper sentence Ivan, because if PR isn't a genre this sentence isn't totally correct because It seems to make understand that PR is a genre, thing that isn't.
 
This is the motive for which they made these proposals of inclusions.  It isn't clear the concept of family, to apply, according to me, also to true genres. 
 
Surely my English is not as good as a native born USA or British, but I believe I was clear, I said Boston doesbn't have a similar or nearly similar or Related Prog Track.
 
BTW: If you read the Prog related definition, my name is in the botton, because I wrote it and was approved by the Adms and M@X so I believe i know what Prog Related means.
 
The last sentence, is a request for people to worry for Prog bands not for doubious related bands.
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 12 2007 at 11:45
            
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Points: 15585 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2007 at 11:50
Ivan, I was not suggesting for a minute that you had misunderstood the poll question!
 
Looks however like you may not be reading mine though.Wink I said "bring in people who would be interested in prog".
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Points: 2755 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2007 at 12:07
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

It would be clearly idiotic to claim that a guy who PLAYED in one of the seminal progressive rock bands was not the slightest bit influenced MUSICALLYy by what he had spent a decade playing., and no doubt Phil Collins fans, should there be any, could point out exactly where those influences manifest themselves.  So condition #1 is clearly fulfilled for Collins, and a strong argument could be made on that basis for the Pocaros' as well.
 
 
In first place, if nobody tells you, I won't accept to qualify my opinions of idiotic, this is disrespectful.
 
Second: In his SOLO CAREER Phil Collins din nothing related to Prog, we don't add a musician because he played in a Prog band, if not Billy Joel would be here because he played in a semi Prog band called Attila.
 
Focus in his solo carrer. noty a single Prog or Prog Related song.
 
BTW;: For the person who accused me of having heard all Toto, I stated before, I have all Toto albums because my sister is a fan, and I don't see anything Prog in them.
 
And saying Prog Related is not Prog doesn't mean the artist doesn't has at least to be related MUSICALLY.
 
Iván
 
You are engaged in a paradox of massive proportions here.   You claim that prog related is NOT progressive music, but you justify rejecting music because it isn't related musically (i.e. doesn't sound like prog.)  Well, what is progressive music except something that sounds like it?   The fallacy should be quite apparent to anyone.  You are refusing to let in bands to a genre that is there for music that doesn't sound like prog because the music doesn't sound like prog.
 
You probably need to read that a couple of times so that what you are really saying has a chance to sink in.
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