Gomah wrote: ivan_2068 wrote: Sorry, but in this case it's a fact, FRAGILE SD 7211 was released in 1972. Each and every source, including the Bruford site confirm this, ALLMUSIC is talking crap(As usual), SD 7211 is a USA and Canada release from 1972. Not even you can doubt this because there are too many quotes and auctions withthis serial number in 1972, Still I can't find any official 1971 release. Iván Totally agree as I said in the other post that SD7211 IS released in 1972. Just wanted to show how incosistent the information on the internet can be.

Yes, Allmusic is great to find FAST BUT SUPERFICIAL information about artists, biographies are usually pretty accurate (Well they once said that Triumvirat was  "a Finland band a la Focus"  and I had to send them a mail).

But in dates, release numbers, etc, it's crap, absolutely inaccurate, that's why I only mentioned Allmusic but recognized it was usually inaccurate.

At last we agree in something without  rseservations.

Iván

Iván

If I understood you and the law correctly, when mentioning the copyright, they should mention all previous copyright holders and dates, am I right? So what do you think about this?

Yessongs RELEASE INFO: 05/04/73 CD US Atlantic 100-2 Remastered (US) 7567-82682   MUSICIANS: Jon Anderson: Vocals Chris Squire: Bass and vocals Rick Wakeman: Keyboards Bill Bruford: Drums on 4 and 10 Alan White: Drums on everything else Steve Howe: Guitars and vocals TRACKS: Opening Excerpt From "Firebird Suite"*** 3:45 Siberian Khatru* 9:50 Heart Of The Sunrise** 11:26 Perpetual Change** 14:08 And You And I* 10:55 Mood For A Day** 3:52 Excerpts From "The Six Wives Of Henry VIII"****3:52 Roundabout** 8:33 I've Seen All Good People** 7:00 Long Distance Runaround/The Fish** 13:45 Close To The Edge* 18:41 Yours Is No Disgrace** 14:21 Starship Trooper** 9:25 TOTAL TIME: 2:10:07 (130:07)   * ©1973 Yessongs, ASCAP ** ©1973 Cotillion BMI/Yessongs, ASCAP *** ©1973 Boosey & Hawkes, ASCAP **** ©1973 Almo, ASCAP Used by permission. All rights reserved. http://yesworld.com/lyrics/ysongs.html

Do you think because it is a live track, the copyright is different than studio version? Bearing in mind that as you said (c) covers lyrics too and possibly lyrics are published for Yessongs (I am not sure though). Again if that's the case why is it different here:

Keys To Ascension Live Tracks (Recorded March 1996) Siberian Khatru* The Revealing Science of God** America*** Onward Intro: Unity**** Onward***** Awaken****** Roundabout******* Starship Trooper******** * © 1972 Topographic Music, Ltd / Rondor Music (London) Ltd. ** © 1973 Topographic Music, Ltd / Rondor Music (London) Ltd. *** © 1968 Paul Simon (BMI) / Pattern Music, Ltd. **** © 1996 Basedown Ltd. ***** © 1978 Topographic Music, Ltd / Warner Chappell Music, Ltd. ****** © 1977 Topographic Music, Ltd / Warner Chappell Music, Ltd. ******* © 1971 Yessongs / Topographic Music, Ltd / Rondor Music (London) Ltd. ******** © 1971 Topographic Music, Ltd / Rondor Music (London) Ltd. ********* © 1996 Carlin Music Publishing, Ltd. / Opio Music Publishing / Basedown Ltd. Used by permission. All rights reserved. http://yesworld.com/lyrics/KeysToAscension.html

Look at Siberian Khatru and try to explain please. Thanks

Iván

Thanks for the info. That makes things clear. Still we don't know what has happened in case of Fragile!

ivan_2068 wrote: TheLamb wrote: It seems your fingers are working far more than your mind, haha, because Ivan and yourself keep repeating yourselves :P lol... I believe this a little unfair with us, all this arguments are from 1972, we can't create new ones. What changes is the interpretation and a analysis of the data and the legal quotes which are analyzed in different ways by different lawyers and judges, if it wasn't like this, there would never exist trials because all we would need is someone to read the law and sanction it. Iván

Always makes me laugh when I say some kind of friendly joke and people take it seriously..

c'mon man dont take this thing so seriously!

Fragile
Yes
Released: 1971

  The sure and steady pace at which Yes has progressed 
through their four albums seems to suit them just fine, 
and in _Fragile_ the fruit is at last beginning to ripen.

  Some problems remain, however: They're good and 
they know it, so they tend to succumb to the show-off 
syndrome. Their music (notably "Cans and Brahms" and 
"We Have Heaven") often seems designed only to impress 
and tries too hard to call attention to itself. Is anyone 
really still excited by things like "Five tracks on this 
album are individual ideas, personally arranged and 
organized by the five members of the band..etc." They've got
it in them to do a lot more than provide fodder for 
those strange people who get it off to visions of keyboard 
battles between Rick Wakeman and Keith Emerson. 
Then too, with the nimble Wakeman and his many instruments,
a guitarist (Steve Howe) who can finger-pick like the 
devil and, apparently, a wealth of collective imagination, 
they could inject at least a tad more variety into their work. 
As it is, most of the songs sound like variations on one 
idea rather than distinct entities sharing a common style.

  But make no mistake -- the Yes people have a lot to be 
excited over.  Gorgeous melodies, intelligent, carefully 
crafted, constantly surprising arrangements, concise and 
energetic performances, cryptic but evocative lyrics -- when 
all these are present Yes is quite boggling and their potential 
seemingly unlimited.

 As in the opening "Roundabout", marked by a thick, 
chugging texture which almost imperceptibly accumulates, 
during deceptively innocent little breaks and fills, a screaming, 
shattering intensity that builds and builds until suddenly 
everything drops away but Wakeman's liquid organ trills,
some scattered guitar notes and Jon Anderson's pure, 
plaintive voice: "In and around the lake/Mountains come 
out of the sky and they/Stand there".  It's a tour-de-force, 
a complete knockout, and perhaps the most quietly
devastating moment to appear on a record in recent memory.

  The heavily atmosphearic "South Side of the Sky" is also 
a grabber, a song that goes from full chorus and band 
(that's loud) to a segment that is nearly Oriental in its 
pristine simplicity -- just wandering piano, electronic 
swirlings and the whoosh of an icy wind. "Heart of the Sunrise"
is the third extended cut, and it puts everything they've got 
into a wide-ranging and most impressive package which 
demonstrates that progressive (remember progressive rock?) 
doesn't mean sterile and that complex isn't the same 
thing as inaccessible.

  When it's all working, the music made by Yes is what 
the best musicalways is, a powerful and emotional 
experience. It's probably the first music to come along 
since some of the Kinks' older stuff that actually
brings the beginnings of tears to these jaded eyes 
of mine. Don't be it can't happen to you.

-- Richard Cromelin, Rolling Stone, 3-16-72.

OHH MICKY MICKY MICKY................

http://yesmuseum.org/FragileReview.txt hmmmm.... Rolling Stones magazine's review of the album.  No light on the descrepancy front, but there is one....

Already mentioned by Gomah 15 posts ago, and we agreed  this info is not taken from an official Yes Museum but from the Yesman's  Museum, and it's only a review, remeber critics from Magazines as ROLLING STONES in the 70's (And still now) have access to the albums before the rest of the world.

Please, bring me official info, not second hand news

RELEASE DATA REGION RELEASE DATE LABEL MEDIA ID NUMBER FEATURES UK November 1, 1971 Atlantic LP/CS NO SERIAL NUMBER?????? US January 4, 1972 Atlantic LP/CS/8T SD/CS/TP7211 gatefold cover w. booklet UK 1982 Atlantic 2LP/CS 80002 repackaged w. Close to the Edge US 1980s? Atlantic LP/CD/CS SD/CS19132 gatefold cover w. booklet UK December 1986 Atlantic CD US 1993 Atlantic CD 82524 24k gold disc w. booklet US August 16, 1994 Atlantic CD/CS 82667 digitally remastered Please, Micky, what's the source? Is it reliable? Why is no serial N° mentioned in 1971?

Omited the Deep Purple because we're talking about a specific Yes release, please remember the official Yes info discriminates in all cases between UK and USA Releases:

Taken from the page 16 OFFICIAL HISTORY BOOKLET IN YESYEARS:

Yes - Yes UK Release date, July 25, 1969 US release date: October 15, 1969 7567-81147-1/2 (Official andoriginal catalog number, which is correlative) As you can see, clearly discriminates between the UK and US release, when there's a difference NOW TAKE A LOOK AT FRAGILE in the same page: RELEASE DATE: JAN 4, 1972 7567-81531-1/4/2

But if you still doubt, check again page 8 third parragraph of the same OFFICIAL HISTORY BOOKLET:

Released in the OPENING MOMENTS OF 1972, FRAGILE contained......

You want More Official info???

Fragile (Atlantic, SD 7211) (1972) http://www.billbruford.com/discog/yes.html (Bill Bruford Official Website)

Still you need more???

Fragile (1972)       http://www.jonanderson.com/music.html Jon Anderson OFFICIAL Website

Not enough?

August, 1971  Rick Wakeman joins Yes. August-September, 1971  Fragile is recorded in five weeks. January 4, 1972  Fragile is released. September 24, 1971 - March 27, 1972  On tour supporting Fragile. http://chrissquire.com/cs_bio70.html Chris Squire Official Website's BIOGRAPHY

 

As you see I only use OFFICIAL YES information, released and published by YES, or Official Yes and Yes Members Sites, bring me something that has the same value as any of this sources (Not anonymous informants ) and we can start to talk.

Iván

EDIT: Atkingani wrote:

Prog Related (Studio Album, 1975) Avg: 4.28/5 from 46 ratings QUEEN "A Night At The Opera*" Review (Permanent link) by Bob McBeath (Easy livin) Posted 1:51:56 PM EST, 1/3/2006 SPECIAL COLLABORATOR (Forum Moderator & Reviews Manager)    “A night at the opera” is generally recognised as Queen’s finest, and indeed most progressive album. Having been preceded by the phenomenally successful 6 minute single “Bohemian Rhapsody”, the album was guaranteed a chart topping position even before it was released.     I was reading this review by EL and find it interesting... probably previous sellings may guarantee a chart position of a work even before it is officially released. I know that it happens here in Brazil with the yearly product of singer Roberto Carlos  made available only in December but appearing in the charts in October/November.

Thanks Atkingani, new and valuable info that can easily explain what happened with Fragile, because the OFFICIAL information by YES can't be challenged.

Edited by ivan_2068

Sh*t, just was going to bed when I recieved your PM about the the K50009 which aparently wasnt correct, so I checked the last one and found:

YES- FRAGILE- UK 1ST PRESSING ATLANTIC 2401019 LP End price: GBP 183   End date: 2005-03-09 Start price: GBP 10   Start date: 2005-02-27 Number of  bids: 13 Auctioned at: ebay Country: Great Britain

Micky, it's talking about pressing date........... Any album released in January 4, 1972 has to be pressed in 1971

Jan 1 1971 was saturday, Jan 2 was Sunday, Jan 3 was Monday.

You can't press an album in one working day Micky.

Face it, Yes in 2005 is not only a band, it's a huge company, this company can't afford to make such a mistake in Yes publications and Yes Official site if they say it was released in 1972, it was released in 1972.

Yes members are also part of different companies indidually and all their official sites can't have the same mistake.

BTW: I forgot a couple of facts about how 70's charts were made:

1. In those days there was no PC's, radio stations hired people to answer phone calls, this people wrote the votes in a paper sheet and later took it to type, this was pretty inaccurate.
2. Some DJ's and hired guys were fans of a band, it was very easy to alter the results in favour of their favorite band, because phone calls leave no trace (In thosedays even harder).
3. There were also some publishers (NOT SAYING YES PUBLISHERS) who gave some gifts ($$$) to some DJ's to promote their albums.
4. In the 70's the votes for best album were insignificant in comparison with the votes for best song.

So I insist, 100 phone calls could take an album to the top 10 in one radio station, probably 150 calls to the top 5. But if you want triple that number, do it,  still it's a bunch of people for the thousands who saw Fragile tour in 1971.

Iván