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Topic ClosedSo We Really Can't Criticise Admin?
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Textbook View Drop Down
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Points: 3281 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: So We Really Can't Criticise Admin?
    Posted: May 01 2012 at 16:42
I posted a topic in GD about how I felt that the admins/mods here are out of touch and dated in their sensibilities. I thought it was politely worded and eloquent and a way of starting a real conversation on the issue. It got locked and censored.
 
So the deal is that we just can't do it or what?
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Angelo View Drop Down
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Points: 13244 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2012 at 16:52
Hmmmm.... the fact that the topic is nowhere to be seen suggests that you may have a different definition of politely worded and eloquent than the admin - to the extend that you violated the site guidelines somewhere... You do have a reputation after all.
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Points: 3281 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2012 at 16:54
OK, polite is stretching it.  But it wasn't abusive or savage. I reproduce it here in order to faciliate the discussion being had in this thread. Here is my initial post:

"So in Smurph's thread about a "pointless rant about children", I jokingly called him a retard and that was censored. I get along with Smurph, I like him, we've private messaged each other and I'm certain he would've taken it in the ribbing way it was intended. But fine, I don't mind it being censored, I can understand how it might look to someone reading it cold and not being aware of how I meant it, it can be a sensitive word. So no big deal.
But what bothers me is that afterwards I made a post saying "Got a post censored. Hey Smurph, want to join me in a rant about humorless, fuddy duddy admin?" which was again a joke, pretty obviously I thought, and this was censored too.
Come on guys, some soft and only half-serious criticism saying you're fuddy duddy and humorless is over the line? I guess you can censor this post too, but it might make some people think I'm on to something. The best way to defuse it is to let it stand and have people disagree with and belittle me as I'm sure they will because most people here are much more matey-potatey than me. But to make it "AGAINST THE RULES" to call you fuddy duddy is kind of dickish and that would lower you to my level."
 
And two further comments I made before it was deleted:
 
"A) I don't know who did it so I can't PM
and B) Things like this should be discussed publicly.
Edit: Also, I don't care who did it. I'm not interested in identifying them. We don't need to do that. The message is just one generally of "Being an admin means you get criticised sometimes. Yes criticism can go too far and become abuse, but "fuddy duddy" is not that point. In fact, thinking fuddy duddy is over the line would probably be a key part of actually being fuddy duddy."
 
And another one:
 
Further comment, in pre-emptive response to inevitable "if you don't like it, leave" answer: But I do like this site, way more bad than good, it's an impressive place. But the worst thing about it is that a number of the admins/mods are out of touch. Their sensibilities are dated. That's probably a product of the site being about a form of music prevalent in the 70s but it doesn't need to be that way. Progressive music is a product of NOW, people doing things NEW. It would be a good thing for the site to have more young turks in the admin/mod group to reflect that attitude because young turks are the guys making prog at any point in time.
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Points: 13635 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2012 at 16:56
The admins do a thankless job very well, and I say this as someone who has spent virtually my entire adult lifetime criticising rudderless & useless authority. I am not afraid to have a go when it is warranted.

They volunteer for this job, and I think they do it to the benefit of the site.

Criticise, by all means, but do it in a way that is professional and courteous. As a rider, I would state I didn't see the relevant post, but the fact it has been removed speaks volumes.

There is no need to insult people and be rude. Hiding behind a computer screen makes it cowardly as well, which I loathe.
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Points: 3281 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2012 at 16:59
The post is reproduced above yours Lazland. Please tell me where it went over the line.
 
The fact it has been removed is not evidence that it was abusive or uncalled for. It could simply be an intolerance of criticism or fear that I was on to something.
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Points: 22774 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2012 at 17:08
I agree with Textbook, poking fun at an authority figure in such a harmless way doesn't need to be censored. 

I've had a few of my posts censored, reasonably, which I was okay with. I'm not even sure what "fuddy duddy" even means, but it barely seems serious or offensive in anyway. I'd probably giggle if someone called me that, and I'm younger and way less mature than probably all of the admins. 

That being said, I'm not meaning to be critical of the admins. I think they do a good job and generally have good reasons for doing whatever they do, and I think I speak for most of the members of the site by saying that we are thankful for the job that the admins do on this site.

but f**k da police.
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Points: 952 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2012 at 17:11
Why exactly are you a member of this site, Textbook? What is it you believe you are contributing to this place?
We are men of action. Lies do not become us.
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Points: 32524 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2012 at 17:12
I would be more interested in a thread critical of all the young people here who are more crotchety than all the geezers I know combined.  Are kids already that cynical, pissed off, and easily offended?  Ermm
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Points: 3281 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2012 at 17:14
Dreadpirate: That's a hugely suspicious tactic. It's like you can't disagree with what I'm saying so you're flying off in another direction, specifically ad hominem.
 
Epig: We've had those threads. By all means start one. Just expect return fire ;)
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Points: 22774 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2012 at 17:19
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

I would be more interested in a thread critical of all the young people here who are more crotchety than all the geezers I know combined.  Are kids already that cynical, pissed off, and easily offended?  Ermm

I'd contribute to that thread with my cynicism and pissiness.
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Points: 3595 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2012 at 17:25
Textbook, you are not special enough for this. You are not the master of a coveted, secret knowledge which we mere intellectually-deprived peons are not, nor will ever be, privy to. You are not the sole possessor of a mythic power granting you certitude and indefatigable verisimilitude in all things. 

I see you as this upstart, mock-revolutionary. "Maybe I'm onto something! Hey guys, we're being oppressed! These authority figures hide behind their power! They censor me because they know I'm right!" Prog-Archives isn't Tienanmen Square, nor is it the hill atop Golgotha. You can play-pretend at being a martyr with your tiny plastic cross, but nobody is impressed.

I don't take offense at your condemnation of PA's...ahem...'upper class'. I've been very close to being banned numerous times. I merely find it humorous that you seem to think yourself a mighty special case. What ideas have you truly conceived that nobody else could've possibly hit upon? 

Not that I disagree. You're probably being targeted due to your reputation. I see insults being flung around this place all the time. I don't think the admins are afraid of being criticized. I think they simply don't like you because you seem like an obnoxious punk child. I could care less if you're 43 with two children and a harem of wives, you seem like an obnoxious punk child. 

Now for the truly important question: How much wood could a wood-chuck chuck if a wood-chuck could chuck Raspberries!?
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Points: 952 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2012 at 17:27
Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

Dreadpirate: That's a hugely suspicious tactic. It's like you can't disagree with what I'm saying so you're flying off in another direction, specifically ad hominem.
 
Epig: We've had those threads. By all means start one. Just expect return fire ;)
 
Let me re-phrase. What is a post like your OP contributing to this forum? (and by extension, several of your other posts, past and future)


Edited by dreadpirateroberts - May 01 2012 at 17:29
We are men of action. Lies do not become us.
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Points: 3281 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2012 at 18:00
Alitare: As with Robert's previous post, this is a strange tack to take. It's like you're actually saying I'm correct but it's OK to flout authority when you feel like it which I'm pretty sure you don't really mean.
 
Robert: I think the place would be better if the mods weren't so out of touch. By drawing attention to it, change may (or may not of course) eventually come about.
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Points: 3595 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2012 at 18:21
EDIT: My head hurts

Maybe nobody should be listening to me for advice.


Edited by Alitare - May 01 2012 at 18:33
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2012 at 04:01
I'm too scared to criticize them. I'm already hanging by a thread.

But personally, I see nothing wrong with any of the posts that you had censored. If one member of the Admin team decide to do something though, they all pull together and hold the line. They don't criticise each other. Once a decision by one  has been made however wrong or misjudged it was, they will all publicly support it.
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2012 at 09:39
Ok so they have basically allowed the discussion to be had after all. This thread hasn't been closed, it's in the right area of the forum, and contains the original post in all its glory, plus it actually deals with your original subject, admin criticism. 

And remember I'm one of the notorious "cop haters" around here...  
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Points: 3167 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2012 at 09:45
I hate the cops. Btw I actually am retarded but we prefer the term mentally handicapable. Because we're better than everyone.
 
 
The mentally handicapable revolution is at hand soon, and you won't see it coming. For we will be coming, ON YOU.
 
 
Btw I don't think the mods are out of touch. They are doing their best job to keep this place enjoyable for everyone. I know it might stifle some things but I don't think they are trying to be jerks to any specific person. I think its safe to say that political leaders, policemen, and the upper crusted elite people of the world are out of touch.
 
Honestly this is just a forum on the web. If anyone gets super bothered by it they need to take a step back and just do something else. We are all just trying to enjoy ourselves. If a post if deleted, find another way to word it or just move on to the next topic. Nothing we say on progarchives is THAT important. The only important things on here is helping each other find amazing music. Everything else is just silly good times. :-)


Edited by Smurph - May 02 2012 at 09:50
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Points: 5208 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2012 at 10:00
First of all I hate when people use "the admins" as some general term that makes it ok to treat the individuals like crap. It's Dean, Angelo, h.ro, and maybe some others. These are folks we interact with in forum and they have choices to make. Their job is to maintain the integrity of the site, not to make you feel like you can exercise your freedom. They make judgment calls.
 
Here's some reality. If you poke someone with a stick, they're less likely to do you any favors. Some will bite back. It has nothing to do with justice. Just friggin common sense. You poke alot of folks with sticks around here. Don't be surprised if you don't get touchy feely in return.
 
 
 
 
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Points: 13635 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2012 at 13:22
^ Absolutely.
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Angelo View Drop Down
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Points: 13244 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2012 at 14:04
Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

First of all I hate when people use "the admins" as some general term that makes it ok to treat the individuals like crap. It's Dean, Angelo, h.ro, and maybe some others. These are folks we interact with in forum and they have choices to make. Their job is to maintain the integrity of the site, not to make you feel like you can exercise your freedom. They make judgment calls.
 
Here's some reality. If you poke someone with a stick, they're less likely to do you any favors. Some will bite back. It has nothing to do with justice. Just friggin common sense. You poke alot of folks with sticks around here. Don't be surprised if you don't get touchy feely in return.

Actually, that is a pretty good summary of what I was thinking about writing when I read the above posts. As admin/moderator one has to make judgement calls, and judgement will include looking at the content of the post, the choice of words, the reputation of the author and the context/time in which the post is written. Looking at recent history, in terms of threads started and discussions had, as well as the whole lot of flack received by the admins in a certain thread (which was closed by me on the public forum, but which lasted for quite a while in the collaborators zone), it's obvious that one of the admins decided to not let Textbook's thread run it's course. 
As to why this one is not closed I can only guess, but I reckon the relatively civil manner in which this issue is being discussed here.

The reason I can only guess is related to the only flaw in your post: since last week, I am no longer on the admin team and I don't have access to the admin zone anymore.
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