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Peter View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: As Mad as a Hatter
    Posted: April 20 2004 at 20:42

 Genesis' early label, Charisma records, had a Tenniel illustration of Lewis Carroll's "Mad Hatter" as its icon.

My question: How did the expression "As mad as a hatter" Wacko originate?



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2004 at 20:58

The process by which felt hats were made involved treating the beaver and rabbit fur with nitrate of mercury to make it easier to pound. Since the hatmakers couldn't help but inhale the mercury, they suffered from mercury poisoning, which caused neurological damage resulting in slurred speech, a lurching gait, and uncontrolled muscle twitching. These were taken as signs of insanity, and the phrase mad as a hatter came into being.

Makes you think twice about beaver, huh?

 

I stole this, BTW.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2004 at 21:39

Angry Aaargh, Danbo, you cheated!

(But you were honourable enough to admit doing so.)Approve

Still, correct, and well (if underhandedly) done!Clap

OK, here are some more, and no Internet research allowed:

Ermm Why were the people who worked in early luminescent watch (and clock) factories often afflicted with cancer of the mouth and/or tongue?

Ermm Why is it considered bad luck to walk under a ladder?

Ermm Why do we say "Bless you" when someone sneezes?

"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2004 at 21:48

Okay, no web.

1. Luminescent watch, eh? Radio-active. Fingers in the mouth, maybe food transference?

2. Ladder? Duh, people on ladders drop stuff on yer head. Ouch.

3. Bless you? I remember something about the spirit leaving the body when you sneeze. People say "Bless you" because you are temporarily without a spirit. 12 years in a Catholic school.  

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2004 at 00:37
Originally posted by danbo danbo wrote:

Okay, no web.

1. Luminescent watch, eh? Radio-active. Fingers in the mouth, maybe food transference?

Very close!

2. Ladder? Duh, people on ladders drop stuff on yer head. Ouch.

No, not that obvious! (Not just immediate bad luck -- try again, please.)

3. Bless you? I remember something about the spirit leaving the body when you sneeze. People say "Bless you" because you are temporarily without a spirit. 12 years in a Catholic school.  

Clap Bravo, little altar-boy! Very, very close! The "Superior Mutha" is pleased! Anyone else care to elucidate?

 



Edited by Peter Rideout
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Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2004 at 12:29

The radium used for painting the watch hands and numerals was being breathed in by the workers which caused cancer.  

????????????????????????

The ladder, angled to the wall with the ground below forms a triangle, a symbolic association with the "holy trinity". Walking through the traingle violates the trinity.

?????????????????????

 Sneezing opens a passage from demons (evil) to enter. The "bless you" stops the demon in his/her steps. Eh.

?????????????????????????

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2004 at 15:14

OK, I'll put you out of your misery! (see below):

Originally posted by danbo danbo wrote:

The radium used for painting the watch hands and numerals was being breathed in by the workers which caused cancer.  

????????????????????????

Very close: The numbers were painted on, and as they were small, the workers needed to keep a fine point on their brushes. They used to wet them (and re-stick the bristles together) in their mouths, between dips in the radioactive goo -- no ill-effects-- at first!

The ladder, angled to the wall with the ground below forms a triangle, a symbolic association with the "holy Trinity". Walking through the traingle violates the trinity.

?????????????????????

100% correct! (Father, Son, Holy Ghost)

Sneezing opens a passage from demons (evil) to enter. The "bless you" stops the demon in his/her steps. Eh.

?????????????????????????

Close: People had observed, in those pre-antibiotic days (pre any effective medicine, really), that sneezing often presaged death. It was assumed that in sneezing, the afflicted person's soul had thus been ejected from the body, and "no soul" = impending death. Hence, the "bless you" was to help prevent this, and to help prepare you to meet your Maker. (It has also been suggested that the hand in front of the nose and mouth when sneezing, originally had less to do with a polite wish to catch the flying "debris," than a desire to forcibly keep the soul within the body!)

Ain't history grand?LOL



Edited by Peter Rideout
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2004 at 18:20

 Thank you for the entertainment and brainercise. I will respond in kind soon. Red Wings vs Calgary Flames (game 1) starts soon. Must make sure my friend Sam Adams is suitably cold for face-off.  Tomorrow my Canuckian mentor.

Hockey 2

 







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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2004 at 20:49
Okay Petey, without looking at your Word Reference book. Why do we use the term "COP" when refering to a Police Officer? Probably an easy one, but we'll keep going 'til I, or Garten, stump you.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2004 at 01:00

Originally posted by danbo danbo wrote:

Okay Petey, without looking at your Word Reference book. Why do we use the term "COP" when refering to a Police Officer? Probably an easy one, but we'll keep going 'til I, or Garten, stump you.

I'll get back to you, and I won't cheat.Big smile

SmileFor the record, the obscure words come out of my head (and my Victorian reading) -- the dictionary is to confirm intended meaning, and spelling.

PS: You know, Danbo, I'm such a decided non-jock that I don't even know who won your precious hockey game. Was it good for your team? Did your cadre of spoiled, genetic-freak millionaires put the little rubber disc in the net more times than the other gang of thuggish, knuckle-dragging ultra-rich guys, "representing" cities and countries they weren't even born in?Wink Hmmmmm?



Edited by Peter Rideout
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2004 at 01:20

COP?  mmm because it stands for Corps Of Police department?  hahaha  

just goofying around

break the circle

reset my head

wake the sleepwalker

and i'll wake the dead
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2004 at 23:12

Originally posted by danbo danbo wrote:

Okay Petey, without looking at your Word Reference book. Why do we use the term "COP" when refering to a Police Officer? Probably an easy one, but we'll keep going 'til I, or Garten, stump you.

Well, you did stump me, you Machiavelian baldie! I actually took the trouble to ask a retired cop acquaintance of mine -- he had no real idea.

I considered copper badges or shields in the past, or the guarding of copper shipments -- unlikely!

The second young cop, asked at a gas station, offered "Constable On Patrol," but I was not convinced, certain that the word must be older than that modern-sounding acronym (like the P.I.G. = Pride, Integrity & Guts business....)

Finally, I thought of the old expression "cop a feel," as in "sneak," or "take," thought I was on the right track, then DID, I confess, look it up on the Wonderful Worldwide Web! Embarrassed (Dictionary only told me it was "slang for police officer.")

(Hey, when I cheat, I tell you.)

Cop: "To take, or grab. (possibly of Germanic roots) Thus "copper" = "thief (& assorted bad guy) taker, or grabber."

Sorry to shoot dirty pool, old boy, but I did try for days! You won that one, but as a lover of words, I JUST HAD TO KNOW! It was driving me bonkers!AngryAaaaaarrrrggghhhh!Wacko

Now, answer me this (no web till you've given up): Why are there useless buttons on the cuffs of your sport-jacket, and buttons on cuffs in generalQuestion

PS: How is that ol' Brewer and Patriot Samuel anyway?  He was rather cold last time I had the pleasure of his company....Wink



Edited by Peter Rideout
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2004 at 07:09
Whilst we are on the subject of word origins, I was told a while ago (but cannot couch for the authenticity of the story) that a particularly naughty word in the English language comes from a form of licence for brothels - to..... as it were......

Fornicate Under Consent of the King.

If this isn't true, then it should be!

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2004 at 11:54

Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

Whilst we are on the subject of word origins, I was told a while ago (but cannot couch for the authenticity of the story) that a particularly naughty word in the English language comes from a form of licence for brothels - to..... as it were......

Fornicate Under Consent of the King.

If this isn't true, then it should be!

That was actually on a test for a college class.

Don't forget Van Halen's 

For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge.  

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2004 at 12:06
True, then? Splendid!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2004 at 12:08
Originally posted by Peter Rideout Peter Rideout wrote:

Cop: "To take, or grab. (possibly of Germanic roots) Thus "copper" = "thief (& assorted bad guy) taker, or grabber."

PS: How is that ol' Brewer and Patriot Samuel anyway?  He was rather cold last time I had the pleasure of his company....Wink

 

Righto, Petey.

The six members of the Adams family sit in the ice box as we speak, awaiting my loving caress.

Buttons, hhmm... if not merely an aesthetic appointment, I would have to guess that gloves were attached by a thin strap so as not to fall to the ground if a gentleman had to remove them whilst helping a poor damsel cross a puddle?   

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2004 at 14:49

Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

Whilst we are on the subject of word origins, I was told a while ago (but cannot couch for the authenticity of the story) that a particularly naughty word in the English language comes from a form of licence for brothels - to..... as it were......

Fornicate Under Consent of the King.

If this isn't true, then it should be!

Stern Smile No, not so. Acronyms are rarely, if ever, the answer. That word is very old, and Germanic (sounds it, no?) in origin. My Arcade Dictionary of Word Origins says:

"The most celebrated of the so-called 'Anglo-Saxon' four-letter words goes back in written form no further than the early 16th century -- a far cry from the Old English period. A personal name, John Le F*cker, however, recorded from around 1278, shows that it was around before 1500 (perhaps not committed to paper because even then it was under a taboo). There is little doubt that it is of Germanic origin, but its precise source has never been satisfactorily identified. All the earliest known examples of the word come from Scotland, which may suggest a Scandinavian source, related to Norwegian dialect fukka 'copulate,' and Swedish dialect focka 'copulate, hit' and fock  'penis.'"

Hmmm, copulate has cop in it -- let's look up "cop" for a connection: nope, related to couple.

Here, in part, is the Dictionary of W.O. entry for copper:

"Copper, the slang term for policeman, is simply the agent noun formed from the verb cop 'seize,' which which probably comes via Old French caper from latin capere 'seize, take,' source of English capture."

There you go!Smile

Stern Smile Did you also know that in the classic Python flick "The Holy Grail," when Cleese as the French soldier refers to "silly English ki-nee-gits," he is mere pronouncing the word as it would have been pronounced in Old English, at the time of Arthur. What looks like nonsensical spelling to us now (knight -- why the K, and the GH?) is simply how it used to be pronounced, during a time (as in Chaucer's day) when English sounded more like German. The pronunciation has changed over the centuries, but the spelling has remained the same.

So, the next time you are complaining about how the spelling of some English words seem to make no sense, remember that, when the word was new, the spelling reflected how it was spoken.

Ain't language grand?Big smile

Now, why all the "Y"s in older English words and signs, etc, such as "thyme," "tyres," "cryme," etc. Why not just use the obvious "i"? Purely decorative, or something elseQuestion

 



Edited by Peter Rideout
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2004 at 14:52
Originally posted by danbo danbo wrote:

Originally posted by Peter Rideout Peter Rideout wrote:

Cop: "To take, or grab. (possibly of Germanic roots) Thus "copper" = "thief (& assorted bad guy) taker, or grabber."

PS: How is that ol' Brewer and Patriot Samuel anyway?  He was rather cold last time I had the pleasure of his company....Wink

Righto, Petey.

Buttons, hhmm... if not merely an aesthetic appointment, I would have to guess that gloves were attached by a thin strap so as not to fall to the ground if a gentleman had to remove them whilst helping a poor damsel cross a puddle?   

Nay, you chivalrous bald-pate, nay! 'Tis not the case!Thumbs Down

"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2004 at 15:01
I thought the F**K word had something to do with farming, specifically "planting a seed."  Maybe the reason Ian Anderson chose Jethro Tull, inventor of the seed drill, for the band name?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2004 at 15:10

Originally posted by danbo danbo wrote:

I thought the F**K word had something to do with farming, specifically "planting a seed."  Maybe the reason Ian Anderson chose Jethro Tull, inventor of the seed drill, for the band name?

AngryDare thee question the all-knowing Dictionary of W.O., thou base knave? Forsooth, I'll have thy hairless head spitted on a pike, and mounted o'er the ramparts of my mighty island fortress, varlet! Have at thee!Angry

 

There you go -- your first Archive-related death threat. Now you're in my select league....Wink



Edited by Peter Rideout
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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