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Atkingani 
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: October 21 2005 Location: Terra Brasilis Status: Offline Points: 12288 |
 Topic: "Americas for the Americans"Posted: March 21 2009 at 07:29 |
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Seldom I start a thread but there's something I need to know... Well, I was in another forum (political) and for some reason the thread was about Chavez, the president of Venezuela and one guy (I believe he's American) said more or less that according to the Monroe Doctrine, the USA has rights over all countries in the Americas... he also added sarcastically that we all fled school leaving the perception that he learnt that way, I mean, "Americas for the Americans, from the USA".
 I know the doctrine but I learnt differently 'cause actually the mentioned "Americans" meant people from all the continent, each one in his/her country.
Then, I'd like to know: How this issue is taught in the USA schools? Do Americans, from the USA, believe that all the continent from Alaska to Tierra del Fuego belong to them???
This topic is aimed mainly to US people here but everyone is invited to participate. Thanks!
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Guigo
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: March 21 2009 at 07:37 |
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not that it 'belongs' to us.... and others may think differently.... but that it is ours to 'watch over'... that the Monroe Doctrine spelled out that the Americas were our sphere of influence and if..say... we didn't like the ways things when... we reserved the right to step in... overtly or covertly and alter them.
that is what I remember being taught... with the hindsight of seeing just how the Monroe Doctrine has been applied. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32553 |
Posted: March 21 2009 at 07:39 |
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This issue isn't taught in American schools...
...not much is.  |
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 03 2007 Location: The Heartland Status: Offline Points: 17258 |
Posted: March 21 2009 at 07:41 |
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Guigo my friend, we were certainly NEVER taught anything of the sort in my education, and I know of no one who would have been taught that.
While guys like him do not help our cause any, it saddens me to see how America is pissed on across the world. We've made great mistakes that I acknowledge, but we also give a fortune in foreign aid and have helped protect allies over the decades at great expense, and we have a good hearted people for the most part....yet those things are conveniently forgotten. Its so easy to demonize America, as if all of the other countries are bastions of perfection and we are the anti-christ. Well, the people I know in my life are not deserving of the image we have in this world. Guigo, don't misunderstand, this is NOT directed at you.....I'm just using your thread to piggyback a related feeling. You can remove it if you wish. |
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...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
Posted: March 21 2009 at 07:50 |
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Jim, you know I chose freely to come here, but if you could step in my shoes for a while, and realise how a person like me is treated just because she wasn't born here, you would probably understand why the US are not popular (and that's just a small part). If something went wrong before two years of marriage, I would be kicked out of the country without mercy, even if I have next to nothing to go back to. And I will spare you other details, which are of no interest to people here.... We, the prospective immigrants, are considered to be guilty by default, and have to jump through hoops to be proven innocent. I can tell you that my friends and family in Italy were appalled whenever I told them of the things I had to go through just in order to live with the man I love. Do you really think they were so wrong?
Edited by Raff - March 21 2009 at 07:50 |
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Atkingani
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: October 21 2005 Location: Terra Brasilis Status: Offline Points: 12288 |
Posted: March 21 2009 at 07:53 |
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Not misunderstood, my friend...
 and there's no need for removal - let it be!  |
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Guigo
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Atkingani
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: October 21 2005 Location: Terra Brasilis Status: Offline Points: 12288 |
Posted: March 21 2009 at 07:59 |
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A small correction, it wasn't in a political forum but in the YouTube... here: I confess I was a bit harsh in my first reply but the second guy went overboard. The part in the post exchanging that left me astonished is:
es21212 (3 meses atrás)
Let's show some fire power to Hugo Chavez the Venezuelan dictator!! haha go USA, give him hell!!
Atkingani (2 meses atrás) Not that I agree with Chavez but what he or the Venezolans did to you or other American people, except some hard words? Isn't it allowed to disagree with the "Empire"? And if he is a "dictator" for being elected due to vicious elections then your hero George W. Bush is a "dictator" too. Kalydosos (2 meses atrás)
Agreed! suntzuwu (1 semana atrás) No. He isn't allowed to disagree. It's called the Monroe Doctrine. Look it up since you weren't paying attention in school |
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Guigo
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: March 21 2009 at 08:17 |
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suntzuwu is an idiot who can be safely ignored.
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 23 2005 Location: The Tardis Status: Offline Points: 8543 |
Posted: March 21 2009 at 08:18 |
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First off, this suntzuwu sounds like a major ... Anywho, he is also incorrect as to what the Monroe Doctrine means. The Monroe Doctrine simply stated that the US would meet with agression any further attempts by European countries to colonize or influence the Americas. It wasn't meant to be a doctrine that what the US says goes, but rather a statement that the US would protect the Americas from European "agression".
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
Posted: March 21 2009 at 08:22 |
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Yes, we Europeans are very aggressive indeed
 ...
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: March 21 2009 at 08:23 |
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exactly.. that is what the history books say... what they may not teach.... which in time...as the threat of European aggression disappeared... has morphed into the 'my backyard' premise in which this country would intervene (which any historian will note the truth of...to this day) when this country thought it's best interests were at stake. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Atkingani
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: October 21 2005 Location: Terra Brasilis Status: Offline Points: 12288 |
Posted: March 21 2009 at 08:33 |
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European countries, no?
In fact, the Monroe Doctrine was issued in 1823, some months after the Holly Alliance Treaty (issued Nov, 1822) where some European kingdoms left the possibility to re-colonize the Americas.
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Guigo
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 03 2007 Location: The Heartland Status: Offline Points: 17258 |
Posted: March 21 2009 at 08:46 |
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Raff, my post was not about your immigration experience, but about this country being an easy punching bag for so many, in the media and elsewhere, in general. You know my post was not directed at you so I'm confused why you put your comment the way you did, and why you would put that question to me at the end.
 As with some previous comments about Italy Raff, please do not take my forum comments as personal commentary on you. Especially when you know darn well how I feel about you. 
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...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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TheCaptain
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: January 04 2009 Location: Ohio, USA Status: Offline Points: 1335 |
Posted: March 21 2009 at 08:50 |
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That's what I was tought in public school. Also, for the preservation of your sanity Guigo, I suggest you never read youtube comments. |
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Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: March 21 2009 at 08:54 |
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cool.... maybe the education system here isn't as bad as everyone says it is hahhaha
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
Posted: March 21 2009 at 09:04 |
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Jim, I thought the reason for my comments was clear enough... You wondered why Americans are hated around the world, and I thought the way would-be immigrants are treated (even if they are nice people like me) is an example of why other countries resent the US. Perhaps the connection was not apparent - my bad. |
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crimson87
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: January 03 2008 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 1818 |
Posted: March 21 2009 at 09:36 |
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Fact is , the US are hated all around the world (Except Israel
 ) because of their leaders. They feel like the world belongs to them having military bases all around earth , also because sometimes they don't give a f*ck about the UN recomendations and do things their own way.Now as regards the Americans , the only thing I really feel sorry about is that they are not taught about different cultures. Let's face it most americans knowledge is based on stereotypes which may sound offensive.
Ex: Latin America 's population is composed of:
Drug dealers
Guerrillas
Soccer players
Thieves
Maids
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InvisibleUnicorns
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 18 2009 Status: Offline Points: 130 |
Posted: March 21 2009 at 10:52 |
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rileydog22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2005 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 8844 |
Posted: March 21 2009 at 11:07 |
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The way I learned the Monroe Doctrine is basically that the US said "If Europe doesn't screw with the Americas then the USA won't screw with Europe". It was more about the USA saying "I'm sick and tired of colonization" than anything else, and I find it amazing that anyone could misconstrue this as "the USA gets do do whatever the hell it wants in South America."
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Atkingani
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: October 21 2005 Location: Terra Brasilis Status: Offline Points: 12288 |
Posted: March 21 2009 at 11:25 |
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 Yep, my fault... I should never have commented there so I would never receive a reply in my e-mail inbox.
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Guigo
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"Americas for the Americans"
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Finnforest wrote: