The New Age (Jordan Oliver) - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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The Rock

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Topic: The New Age (Jordan Oliver)
Posted: February 20 2008 at 08:09

Hi,

This overlooked ameriprog act should be on PA big time.Back in 1980 Jordan Oliver and his mates released one of the finest symphonic prog album of the early 80's.

Jordan Oliver who was the leader and keyboardist on top of beign the main songwritter.He his aided by a fine cast of musicians including a dedicated violonist who is all over the record,toe to toe with the keybords.

The thick keyboard sound topped off by violin gives the music a strong classical feel recalling the best of Curved Air,Pavlov's Dog and Darryl Way's Wolf.

The name of the band was The New Age and the title of the album was Neptuned.It was reissued on CD in the 2000's under Jordan Oliver instead of The New Age,although the title remain the same as well as the sleeve.

No doubt one of the biggest ommission on PA.

http://www.newageneptuned.com/

http://www.tradebit.com/filedetail.php/1617736-Music-Hard-Rock

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Posted: February 21 2008 at 08:00

They've got my seal of approval, based on what accessible in the second link.

let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
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as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword

The Rock

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Posted: February 21 2008 at 21:52

Sean Trane wrote:

They've got my seal of approval, based on what accessible in the second link.

And they should as they are probably the most progressive,or at least symphonic band I ave submit yet.

What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"

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Posted: February 21 2008 at 22:02

I'll certainly check this out, it sounds like something I'd enjoy.
Thanks for the tip!!!

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Posted: February 21 2008 at 23:59

The Rock wrote:

And they should as they are probably the most progressive,or at least symphonic band I ave submit yet.

Well, being a Symphonic sugestion I gave my best attention to them, for what I got (a good part of the album), this is my opinion:

Iran: Absolutely Ambient Fusion
Dreams: Jazzy Ambient mostly IMHO, even though he plays parts of In the Hall of the Moubntain King from Peer Gynt, the sound is always cloiser to a soft easy listenuing fusion with a touch of classical of course.
Alpha Centaurus: Chopin's Polonaise is a good detail, the guy knows his keys, then he jumps to an Emerson like section but always wit that jazzy feeling, sounds loike ïano Improvisations from Works, but then he changes to a more ambient late New Age approach, close to Symphonic but not completely.
The Future: It's Prog, no doubt, but in his track I see no relation with Symphoinic, yes he uses piano and obviously has Classical training, but that's not all you need to make Symph, this is a Proggy approach too AOR IMHO
Neptuned: The closer he gets to Symphonic, very melodic even when a bit light, liked this track

Just as a reference I did a search in all known Prog sites and he's not mentioned in anyone, something odd for an album released his album 26 years ago, but had access to a release done Live in Venezuela.

Vivo en Venezuela is more clearly Latin Jazz with very good piano, but not Symphonic either.

Neptuned is credited to Jordan Oliver, The New Age band is a creation only for this concept album based in the history of New Age, not a stable band.

The short links in the page don't give a clear idea of his music, if you don't have a legal download site, please go to CD Baby, their samples are more descriptive, I would dare to say that Prog Related if too much would be my choice.

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 22 2008 at 00:00

The Rock

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Posted: February 22 2008 at 07:49

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

The Rock wrote:

And they should as they are probably the most progressive,or at least symphonic band I ave submit yet.

Well, being a Symphonic sugestion I gave my best attention to them, for what I got (a good part of the album), this is my opinion:

Iran: Absolutely Ambient Fusion
Dreams: Jazzy Ambient mostly IMHO, even though he plays parts of In the Hall of the Moubntain King from Peer Gynt, the sound is always cloiser to a soft easy listenuing fusion with a touch of classical of course.
Alpha Centaurus: Chopin's Polonaise is a good detail, the guy knows his keys, then he jumps to an Emerson like section but always wit that jazzy feeling, sounds loike ïano Improvisations from Works, but then he changes to a more ambient late New Age approach, close to Symphonic but not completely.
The Future: It's Prog, no doubt, but in his track I see no relation with Symphoinic, yes he uses piano and obviously has Classical training, but that's not all you need to make Symph, this is a Proggy approach too AOR IMHO
Neptuned: The closer he gets to Symphonic, very melodic even when a bit light, liked this track

Vivo en Venezuela is more clearly Latin Jazz with very good piano, but not Symphonic either.

Neptuned is credited to Jordan Oliver, The New Age band is a creation only for this concept album based in the history of New Age, not a stable band.

Iván

I would dare to say that you are way too picky and that if this is not sympho prog then what is???

Prog related?

Come on!!!

That's the thing that I dislike the most about some prog fans.they tend to have their noses up in the air and decided what is prog and hat isn't.

To call this light jazz and ambient new age is really exagerated IMHO.Prog aproach to AOR?

Pul-eeeze!

The reason why they're not mentioned in many prog sites is because it is so damn well obscure,just like most bands I suggested.

Now when I read reviews of A hard Days Night,Maiden's Killers and Queen's Flash Gordon on a PROG site and I compare these to Jordan Oliver's Neptune,I think I may be biased but Neptuned is far more than just prog related.SYMPHO PROG.

What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"

The Rock

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Posted: February 22 2008 at 07:55

Sean Trane wrote:

They've got my seal of approval, based on what accessible in the second link.

Thanks for such a constructive,simple and down to earth aproach!

When a PROG site includes Jefferson Airplane,Doors,Zeppelin,ect....(nothing about these bands on PA),then they should include a vast majority of psych/hard rock bands of the seventies.

What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"

The Rock

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Posted: February 22 2008 at 09:13

Btw,

Here's the link to the cdbaby site.It mentions the word ''progressive'' at least 4 times.They also mention that the band's name was indeed ''THE NEW AGE''.And they also call the album conceptual.

http://cdbaby.com/cd/jordanoliver3

The other albums Oliver recorded should'nt be taken into consideration,otherwise the same could apply to a lot of artists on PA.

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The Rock

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Posted: February 22 2008 at 09:17

Ooooops!

Almost forgot!

They also say ''Recommended if you like....Yes,Genesis,Emerson''

All 3 sympho bands.

Enough'said.

What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"

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Posted: February 22 2008 at 14:08

The Rock wrote:

I would dare to say that you are way too picky and that if this is not sympho prog then what is???

Prog related?

Come on!!!

To be honest slightly Prog Related IMHO.

That's the thing that I dislike the most about some prog fans.they tend to have their noses up in the air and decided what is prog and hat isn't.

I been chosen to be in the Symp´honic Team not to decide whjhat Prog is and wha's not, but to try to make from this genre reliable, and not too picky, wereceived 96 suggestions for Symphonic (have them all noted), and only voted against 4, this means I accept more than 90% of the suggestions of the genre.

To call this light jazz and ambient new age is really exagerated IMHO.Prog aproach to AOR?

Pul-eeeze!

That's what I believe it is, the Fact that you like his music and has some classiccal piano on it, desn't make him Prog or Symphonic, lets read what CD Baby has to say about Jordan Olivers's music:

Jordan Oliver’s love of the piano, in-depth study and artistic sincerity have led him to explore entirely new expressions of musical forms. Through improvisation, he has instinctively combined the qualities of the European classics, latin elements, jazz, and blues. What he has done in the process is created the beginnings of a completely new style of music – the structure and elegance of classical, fusing with the passion and earthiness of jazz.
http://cdbaby.com/cd/jordanoliver1

This describes clearly his style and matches my opinion about his music.

The reason why they're not mentioned in many prog sites is because it is so damn well obscure,just like most bands I suggested.

Oh please, there more than 100 Prog sites, none of them mentions him despite he has several Youtube sites and a soitre....Do you believe that GEPR, Proggnosis, Progressive Ears, Progressor. etc don't have access to rare obscure stuff?

Probably theyhaven't accepted him because he's slightly more Prog than Richard Clayderman IMO.,

What happens outside Symphonic is not my responsability, I may agree and suggest, but my duty is with Symphonic.

Will answer your other posts for respect

The Rock wrote:

Btw,

Here's the link to the cdbaby site.It mentions the word ''progressive'' at least 4 times.They also mention that the band's name was indeed ''THE NEW AGE''.And they also call the album conceptual.

CD Baby was a site based in New Age that has recently expanded to other genres.
CD Baby is a store thatwants to sell albums, New Age doesn't sell today, the most copmmercial option is Progressive Rock.

But they also say that if you like this album you will love NEW AGE http://cdbaby.com/cd/jordanoliver3

The other albums Oliver recorded should'nt be taken into consideration,otherwise the same could apply to a lot of artists on PA.

Yes, they are a reference of their style, specially when an artist has released only 3 albums and all of them are Jazz Ambient oriented, this has to say something of his style.

But I base my opinion in wha I listen, anyway HT and E-Dub will listen this and give their opinions.

The last post:

The Rock wrote:

Ooooops!

Almost forgot!

They also say ''Recommended if you like....Yes,Genesis,Emerson''

All 3 sympho bands.

Enough'said.

I told you, I don't trust in what a store says to sell an album, speciallty one mainly specialized in New Age, but they also said that if you love this album, you will also love New Age.

I believe I replied to all your posts.

Respectfully

Iván

BTW: I believe I found a My Space site for Jorda Oliver's "Noches de Costa Rica", lets see what they say about huim:

Live performance in San Jose, Costa Rica by pianist and composer Jordan Oliver. Jordan is a classically trained Boulder, Colorado based musician with a passion for Latin Jazz and Salsa.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1736719996

Oops, exactly what I said, Latin Jazz with Classical training.

But lets see what was his schedule for 2000:

2000 Schedule

Jordan Oliver & Friends
The Heartbeat Symphonia & Mambo Cocktail
December 8, 7:30-9:30pm
Chatauqua Community House
900 Baseline Dr.
Boulder, CO

http://www.unipeg.org/Jordan%20Oliver%202000.htm

Now lets see his schedule for 2001 and 2004:

Jordan Oliver and the Rhythm Cartel
Envie
June 1, 8:00pm-12:00am
1738 Pearl St
Boulder, CO
http://www.unipeg.org/Jordan%20Oliver%202001.htm

2004 Schedule

Jordan Oliver is currently on tour with Jordan Oliver and Flying Salsa. More information can be found at:
www.flyingsalsalive.com

http://www.unipeg.org/Jordan%20Oliver%202004.htm

Lets read his bio for Unipeg Records

Jordan Oliver is a door to a unique musical world. His writing is completely contemporary, with wilderness-like qualities particularly felt in the space between the melody and rhythms of his songs. Endowed with a remarkable and unnerving passion for music and th process of creating unique expressions, Jordan takes quantum musical leaps. His compositions include provocative film score soundscapes, neo-classical pieces, Rave, Rock and Acid Jazz. He has performed, written and arranged for orchestra and rock bands.

http://www.unipeg.org/Jordan%20Oliver%20bio.htm

Do you still believe we should add a guy who has formed such bands as:

Jordan Oliver and the Salsa Cartel
Jordan Oliver and The Flying Salsa Alive
Jordan Oliver & Friends The Heartbeat Symphonia & Mambo Cocktail

Please

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 22 2008 at 14:39

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Posted: February 22 2008 at 15:53

Just to emphasize, UNIPEG RECORDS is the label founded by Jordan Oliver to release his albums, this is the bio DONE BY HIMSELF IN HIS LABEL'S OFFICIAL PAGE:

After a stint in Hollywood working with a number of bands and writing films scores, Jordan realized he needed to pursue his own musical vision to keep the quality of his music alive and growing. He moved to Boulder, Colorado where he has founded Unipeg, a recording studio, production company and record label. With Unipeg, he is creating a breeding ground for musical ideas, both individual and collaborative, to take shape. We can look forward to many interesting and cutting edge projects from this talented musician/producer.

http://www.unipeg.org/Jordan%20Oliver%20bio.htm

He doesn't mention the word Progressive Rock to describe his music once, so it's clear that CD Baby is trying to sell Jordan's album usig the Progressive name.

His orientation is all his albums is clearly towards Jazz with Latin and Clasical influences, but Symphonic....No way.

Please The Rock, don't accuse me of snopbery or something similar, when I have to work for the Symphonic Team (and foe everything) I always do my homework complete, not only listening but also researching.

Iván

The Rock

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Posted: February 22 2008 at 16:59

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Just to emphasize, UNIPEG RECORDS is the label founded by Jordan Oliver to release his albums, this is the bio DONE BY HIMSELF IN HIS LABEL'S OFFICIAL PAGE:

http://www.unipeg.org/Jordan%20Oliver%20bio.htm

He doesn't mention the word Progressive Rock to describe his music once, so it's clear that CD Baby is trying to sell Jordan's album usig the Progressive name.

His orientation is all his albums is clearly towards Jazz with Latin and Clasical influences, but Symphonic....No way.

Iván

Listen buddy,

Have you heard the whole album yet?

Unlike you I don,t have accademic pretientions,and i WON'T START DISPLAYING SOME HIGH CLASS SNOBBERY to prove my point about a band.

I just listen to music,I don't analyle it.I still think this BAND ''THE NEW AGE'' should be added to PA based on what I heard;symphonic progressive rock.So I tell it like it is and how I hear it,if it's prog that I hear,then so be it.If it ain't so be it to.

To disclaim ''The new age '' as new age,jazz embiant is pure BS as far as all the good people I have submit this band to so far, but YOU.

A nd I have also been told by PM by some well respected members of this board that you do indeed have your nose up in the air and that you have this snotty and stubborn attitude towards those who don't share your opinion and views.I can only confirm their views so far.

Btw,I bought this CD in a well reputed second hand shop where the vendors are true fans and connoissors of prog and many other genres and the CD was in the ''PROGRESSIVE ROCK'' section.

And i still stand by what I say,the fact that they're not in PA or other prog sites dosen't say anything at all.There are thousands of bands not on any of those boards that should be included,yet aren't because they are unknown,not because they don't fit the genre's description.

Do you belive Iron Maiden,The Who,Beatles,Jefferson Airplaine,ect... are proggier than ''Neptuned''?

Me thinks not.But they are far more renowned and popular.

Ricardo Cocciante also did one progressive album,so did Jose Cid.Most of those two fine musicians musical input resides outside the wide prog spectrum,yet they are beign included on many prog sites.I don't see why we should'nt aplly the same to Neptuned.

I 've been told by another respected member of this board to submit Neptuned to other more open minded operators of this board,wich I will do.

Please wake up and smell the roses.....

What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"

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Posted: February 22 2008 at 17:23

The Rock wrote:

Listen buddy,

Have you heard the whole album yet?

Yes I did and also heard part of his other albums.

Unlike you I don,t have accademic pretientions,and i WON'T START DISPLAYING SOME HIGH CLASS SNOBBERY to prove my point about a band.

All I gave are arguments, including what Jordan Oliver has to say about Jordan Oliver.

And I tell you what I hear with arguments. The Band The New Age DOESN'T EXIST Jordan Oliver credits the album IN HIS LABEL TO HIMSELF

The album is credited to Jordan Oliver everywhere, a musician specialized in Salsa and Latin Jazz.

To disclaim ''The new age '' as new age,jazz embiant is pure BS as far as all the good people I have submit this band to so far, but YOU.

Don't start qualifying as BS my opinions just because you don't agree.

Tell those respected members to say it in my face, I never talk about other members on their back, and I'm sure most of the Collaborators here neither.

Btw,I bought this CD in a well reputed second hand shop where the vendors are true fans and connoissors of prog and many other genres and the CD was in the ''PROGRESSIVE ROCK'' section.

The vendor is responsible for his store, I'm responsible for the Symphonic team.

Yes sure, a guy who:

Has been in the market since 1982
Has a web site
Has his own label
Is promoted by CD Baby.

Is very unknown, while a Abbhama or Delta Cyphel Project who have no website, no páge devoted to them, no My Space pages, no You Tube pages and don't have a label of their own, but are included in most stres.

If he's not ijn any Prog site, is most likely because he's not a Prog artist, but oif another team decides to add him, it's their responsability.

Do you belive Iron Maiden,The Who,Beatles,Jefferson Airplaine,ect... are proggier than ''Neptuned''?

OI'm not responsible for what happens outside Symphonic and recently from Neo Prog, so my opinion is not important, even I'm against some of those bands.

Me thinks not.But they are far more renowned and popular.

I told you, I added none of them and only supported Iron Maiden for PROG RELATED.

As I told you, I don't care if The Bee Gees or Michael Jackson are added to another sub-genre, this won't make me change my mind about Jordan Oliver.

Jose Cid is here, I added him and if I'm not wrong I wrote the bio.

I 've been told by another respected member of this board to submit Neptuned to other more open minded operators of this board,wich I will do.

Tell that member that the decision on Symphonic bands is made by the team I lead, and we decide everything by vote of the team, if we decide not to add them, nobody can force us to do it.

BTW; Tell that respected member to be a man and tell me the things in my face not send a messager...If he exists.

Please wake up and smell the roses....

I'm totally awake and as far as you should notice, I did a complete research about Mister Oliver,

Iván.

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 22 2008 at 17:39

Angelo

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Posted: February 22 2008 at 18:14

The point is clear here: Jordan Oliver is not, and will not, be accepted for inclusion in Symphonic, so this discussion ends here. It should have ended earlier, given that I had to hide one post just now.
Forum members are free to express your opinions on this forum, but personal attacks and setting up people (both regular members and collaborators) against each other is not tolerated. Please be constructive and accept proper arguments, and the fact that we all have our own opinions.

According to standard procedures, other teams may consider the suggestion. They are hereby invited to do so. It may not be to everybody's liking, but this is how ProgArchives works.

Closing note: if the tone of discussion becomes similar to what has gone before - this thread will be closed.

Edited by Angelo - February 22 2008 at 18:15

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Posted: February 22 2008 at 20:04

Angelo, despite my opínion, I still require another vote from the team to reject the band to be fair.

Iván

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Posted: February 22 2008 at 20:08

The Rock wrote:

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

The Rock wrote:

And they should as they are probably the most progressive,or at least symphonic band I ave submit yet.

Well, being a Symphonic sugestion I gave my best attention to them, for what I got (a good part of the album), this is my opinion:

Iran: Absolutely Ambient Fusion
Dreams: Jazzy Ambient mostly IMHO, even though he plays parts of In the Hall of the Moubntain King from Peer Gynt, the sound is always cloiser to a soft easy listenuing fusion with a touch of classical of course.
Alpha Centaurus: Chopin's Polonaise is a good detail, the guy knows his keys, then he jumps to an Emerson like section but always wit that jazzy feeling, sounds loike ïano Improvisations from Works, but then he changes to a more ambient late New Age approach, close to Symphonic but not completely.
The Future: It's Prog, no doubt, but in his track I see no relation with Symphoinic, yes he uses piano and obviously has Classical training, but that's not all you need to make Symph, this is a Proggy approach too AOR IMHO
Neptuned: The closer he gets to Symphonic, very melodic even when a bit light, liked this track

Vivo en Venezuela is more clearly Latin Jazz with very good piano, but not Symphonic either.

Neptuned is credited to Jordan Oliver, The New Age band is a creation only for this concept album based in the history of New Age, not a stable band.

Iván

I would dare to say that you are way too picky and that if this is not sympho prog then what is???

Prog related?

Come on!!!

That's the thing that I dislike the most about some prog fans.they tend to have their noses up in the air and decided what is prog and hat isn't.

To call this light jazz and ambient new age is really exagerated IMHO.Prog aproach to AOR?

Pul-eeeze!

The reason why they're not mentioned in many prog sites is because it is so damn well obscure,just like most bands I suggested.

America's answer to YAWN-ni, in my opinion. That aside, he doesn't belong in symph.

Ivan's a team member of mine and you're going to have to do a better job with your rebuttals because he will shred you. He's tenacious at researching and will back it up with pinpoint accuracy. To assume that he'll not look at it from different angles to see if an artist will fit is a premature judgment on your part. Ivan just doesn't operate like that.

Prog-related gets my vote.

E

Edited by E-Dub - February 22 2008 at 20:15

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Posted: February 22 2008 at 20:21

^^and that's if I honestly had to vote to include it. If it were up to me, I'd leave him for the New Age Archives.

E

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Posted: February 22 2008 at 21:01

Regardless of what any other site says, or what our decision may be, I resent the attitude that we are elitist, or don't look at obscure acts. I am a huge champion of the obscure, and have added quite a few to Symph. I am also now championing another rare one for Neo, and will probably have more in the future. We work as a team, and do thorough research. All submissions are taken seriously.

That being said, I am usually the more inclusive one of the bunch. I can see some symphonic components here, and Jordan Oliver may be a good candidate for PA. However, from what I have heard it's not an obvious choice. Since my teammates have already said no, There is really no point in further consideration for Symphonic.

a.k.a. H.T.

http://riekels.wordpress.com

The Rock

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Posted: February 22 2008 at 23:02

E-Dub wrote:

^^and that's if I honestly had to vote to include it. If it were up to me, I'd leave him for the New Age Archives.

E

New age based on what?

The fact that the band name was The New Age?

Listen to the album and please be objective and tell me this is new age.Drums,basses,electric guitars,organ and percussions are rarely used in new age music.

Whatever he did afterward should'nt be taken in consideration.Like I said,Jose Cid only recorded one true prog album,all the rest of his discography is pop music.Yet he's here 100%.

The same reasonning should be applied for The New Age-Neptuned.

What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"

The Rock

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Posted: February 22 2008 at 23:10

bhikkhu wrote:

Regardless of what any other site says, or what our decision may be, I resent the attitude that we are elitist, or don't look at obscure acts. I am a huge champion of the obscure, and have added quite a few to Symph. I am also now championing another rare one for Neo, and will probably have more in the future. We work as a team, and do thorough research. All submissions are taken seriously.

That being said, I am usually the more inclusive one of the bunch. I can see some symphonic components here, and Jordan Oliver may be a good candidate for PA. However, from what I have heard it's not an obvious choice. Since my teammates have already said no, There is really no point in further consideration for Symphonic.

Sorry for the elitists accusations,but I still beleive that there are many of those polluting the prog world presently.They hae this idea that THEY know what is and what is not this and that,and that THEY decide what is or isn't prog.

As long as I will plug on to PA and read reviews of A hard Day's night and Killers by Iron Maiden,I will always find it paradoxal all this reticence and hostility towards an album that is 100% proggier than those-and I could mention many many other bands and albums that are far less prog that Neptued by The New Age.

Forget the Jordan Oliver moniker and at least consider the act as The New Age as it was originally released in 1982.

What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"