Suggest New Bands and Artists - The New Age (Jordan Oliver)

Print Page | Close Window

The New Age (Jordan Oliver)

Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46406
Printed Date: February 22 2025 at 08:18
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com

Topic: The New Age (Jordan Oliver)

Posted By: The Rock
Subject: The New Age (Jordan Oliver)
Date Posted: February 20 2008 at 08:09

Hi,

This overlooked ameriprog act should be on PA big time.Back in 1980 Jordan Oliver and his mates released one of the finest symphonic prog album of the early 80's.

Jordan Oliver who was the leader and keyboardist on top of beign the main songwritter.He his aided by a fine cast of musicians including a dedicated violonist who is all over the record,toe to toe with the keybords.

The thick keyboard sound topped off by violin gives the music a strong classical feel recalling the best of Curved Air,Pavlov's Dog and Darryl Way's Wolf.

The name of the band was The New Age and the title of the album was Neptuned.It was reissued on CD in the 2000's under Jordan Oliver instead of The New Age,although the title remain the same as well as the sleeve.

No doubt one of the biggest ommission on PA.

http://www.newageneptuned.com/ - http://www.newageneptuned.com/

http://www.tradebit.com/filedetail.php/1617736-Music-Hard-Rock - http://www.tradebit.com/filedetail.php/1617736-Music-Hard-Rock

-------------
What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"

Replies:

Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 08:00

They've got my seal of approval, based on what accessible in the second link.

-------------
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword

Posted By: The Rock
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 21:52

Sean Trane wrote:

They've got my seal of approval, based on what accessible in the second link.

And they should as they are probably the most progressive,or at least symphonic band I ave submit yet.

-------------
What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"

Posted By: Cylli Kat
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 22:02

I'll certainly check this out, it sounds like something I'd enjoy.
Thanks for the tip!!!

-------------
[Insert Clever Phrase Here]

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 21 2008 at 23:59

The Rock wrote:

And they should as they are probably the most progressive,or at least symphonic band I ave submit yet.

Well, being a Symphonic sugestion I gave my best attention to them, for what I got (a good part of the album), this is my opinion:

Iran: Absolutely Ambient Fusion
Dreams: Jazzy Ambient mostly IMHO, even though he plays parts of In the Hall of the Moubntain King from Peer Gynt, the sound is always cloiser to a soft easy listenuing fusion with a touch of classical of course.
Alpha Centaurus: Chopin's Polonaise is a good detail, the guy knows his keys, then he jumps to an Emerson like section but always wit that jazzy feeling, sounds loike ïano Improvisations from Works, but then he changes to a more ambient late New Age approach, close to Symphonic but not completely.
The Future: It's Prog, no doubt, but in his track I see no relation with Symphoinic, yes he uses piano and obviously has Classical training, but that's not all you need to make Symph, this is a Proggy approach too AOR IMHO
Neptuned: The closer he gets to Symphonic, very melodic even when a bit light, liked this track

Just as a reference I did a search in all known Prog sites and he's not mentioned in anyone, something odd for an album released his album 26 years ago, but had access to a release done Live in Venezuela.

Vivo en Venezuela is more clearly Latin Jazz with very good piano, but not Symphonic either.

Neptuned is credited to Jordan Oliver, The New Age band is a creation only for this concept album based in the history of New Age, not a stable band.

The short links in the page don't give a clear idea of his music, if you don't have a legal download site, please go to CD Baby, their samples are more descriptive, I would dare to say that Prog Related if too much would be my choice.

Iván

-------------

Posted By: The Rock
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 07:49

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

The Rock wrote:

And they should as they are probably the most progressive,or at least symphonic band I ave submit yet.

Well, being a Symphonic sugestion I gave my best attention to them, for what I got (a good part of the album), this is my opinion:

Iran: Absolutely Ambient Fusion
Dreams: Jazzy Ambient mostly IMHO, even though he plays parts of In the Hall of the Moubntain King from Peer Gynt, the sound is always cloiser to a soft easy listenuing fusion with a touch of classical of course.
Alpha Centaurus: Chopin's Polonaise is a good detail, the guy knows his keys, then he jumps to an Emerson like section but always wit that jazzy feeling, sounds loike ïano Improvisations from Works, but then he changes to a more ambient late New Age approach, close to Symphonic but not completely.
The Future: It's Prog, no doubt, but in his track I see no relation with Symphoinic, yes he uses piano and obviously has Classical training, but that's not all you need to make Symph, this is a Proggy approach too AOR IMHO
Neptuned: The closer he gets to Symphonic, very melodic even when a bit light, liked this track

Vivo en Venezuela is more clearly Latin Jazz with very good piano, but not Symphonic either.

Neptuned is credited to Jordan Oliver, The New Age band is a creation only for this concept album based in the history of New Age, not a stable band.

Iván

I would dare to say that you are way too picky and that if this is not sympho prog then what is???

Prog related?

Come on!!!

That's the thing that I dislike the most about some prog fans.they tend to have their noses up in the air and decided what is prog and hat isn't.

To call this light jazz and ambient new age is really exagerated IMHO.Prog aproach to AOR?

Pul-eeeze!

The reason why they're not mentioned in many prog sites is because it is so damn well obscure,just like most bands I suggested.

Now when I read reviews of A hard Days Night,Maiden's Killers and Queen's Flash Gordon on a PROG site and I compare these to Jordan Oliver's Neptune,I think I may be biased but Neptuned is far more than just prog related.SYMPHO PROG.

-------------
What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"

Posted By: The Rock
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 07:55

Sean Trane wrote:

They've got my seal of approval, based on what accessible in the second link.

Thanks for such a constructive,simple and down to earth aproach!

When a PROG site includes Jefferson Airplane,Doors,Zeppelin,ect....(nothing about these bands on PA),then they should include a vast majority of psych/hard rock bands of the seventies.

-------------
What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"

Posted By: The Rock
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 09:13

Btw,

Here's the link to the cdbaby site.It mentions the word ''progressive'' at least 4 times.They also mention that the band's name was indeed ''THE NEW AGE''.And they also call the album conceptual.

http://cdbaby.com/cd/jordanoliver3 - http://cdbaby.com/cd/jordanoliver3

The other albums Oliver recorded should'nt be taken into consideration,otherwise the same could apply to a lot of artists on PA.

-------------
What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"

Posted By: The Rock
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 09:17

Ooooops!

Almost forgot!

They also say ''Recommended if you like....Yes,Genesis,Emerson''

All 3 sympho bands.

Enough'said.

-------------
What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 14:08

The Rock wrote:

I would dare to say that you are way too picky and that if this is not sympho prog then what is???

Prog related?

Come on!!!

To be honest slightly Prog Related IMHO.

That's the thing that I dislike the most about some prog fans.they tend to have their noses up in the air and decided what is prog and hat isn't.

I been chosen to be in the Symp´honic Team not to decide whjhat Prog is and wha's not, but to try to make from this genre reliable, and not too picky, wereceived 96 suggestions for Symphonic (have them all noted), and only voted against 4, this means I accept more than 90% of the suggestions of the genre.

To call this light jazz and ambient new age is really exagerated IMHO.Prog aproach to AOR?

Pul-eeeze!

That's what I believe it is, the Fact that you like his music and has some classiccal piano on it, desn't make him Prog or Symphonic, lets read what CD Baby has to say about Jordan Olivers's music:

Jordan Oliver’s love of the piano, in-depth study and artistic sincerity have led him to explore entirely new expressions of musical forms. Through improvisation, he has instinctively combined the qualities of the European classics, latin elements, jazz, and blues. What he has done in the process is created the beginnings of a completely new style of music – the structure and elegance of classical, fusing with the passion and earthiness of jazz.
http://cdbaby.com/cd/jordanoliver1 - http://cdbaby.com/cd/jordanoliver1

This describes clearly his style and matches my opinion about his music.

The reason why they're not mentioned in many prog sites is because it is so damn well obscure,just like most bands I suggested.

Oh please, there more than 100 Prog sites, none of them mentions him despite he has several Youtube sites and a soitre....Do you believe that GEPR, Proggnosis, Progressive Ears, Progressor. etc don't have access to rare obscure stuff?

Probably theyhaven't accepted him because he's slightly more Prog than Richard Clayderman IMO.,

What happens outside Symphonic is not my responsability, I may agree and suggest, but my duty is with Symphonic.

Will answer your other posts for respect

The Rock wrote:

Btw,

Here's the link to the cdbaby site.It mentions the word ''progressive'' at least 4 times.They also mention that the band's name was indeed ''THE NEW AGE''.And they also call the album conceptual.

CD Baby was a site based in New Age that has recently expanded to other genres.
CD Baby is a store thatwants to sell albums, New Age doesn't sell today, the most copmmercial option is Progressive Rock.

But they also say that if you like this album you will love NEW AGE http://cdbaby.com/cd/jordanoliver3 - http://cdbaby.com/cd/jordanoliver3

The other albums Oliver recorded should'nt be taken into consideration,otherwise the same could apply to a lot of artists on PA.

Yes, they are a reference of their style, specially when an artist has released only 3 albums and all of them are Jazz Ambient oriented, this has to say something of his style.

But I base my opinion in wha I listen, anyway HT and E-Dub will listen this and give their opinions.

The last post:

The Rock wrote:

Ooooops!

Almost forgot!

They also say ''Recommended if you like....Yes,Genesis,Emerson''

All 3 sympho bands.

Enough'said.

I told you, I don't trust in what a store says to sell an album, speciallty one mainly specialized in New Age, but they also said that if you love this album, you will also love New Age.

I believe I replied to all your posts.

Respectfully

Iván

BTW: I believe I found a My Space site for Jorda Oliver's "Noches de Costa Rica", lets see what they say about huim:

Live performance in San Jose, Costa Rica by pianist and composer Jordan Oliver. Jordan is a classically trained Boulder, Colorado based musician with a passion for Latin Jazz and Salsa.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1736719996 - http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1736719996

Oops, exactly what I said, Latin Jazz with Classical training.

But lets see what was his schedule for 2000:

2000 Schedule

Jordan Oliver & Friends
The Heartbeat Symphonia & Mambo Cocktail
December 8, 7:30-9:30pm
Chatauqua Community House
900 Baseline Dr.
Boulder, CO

http://www.unipeg.org/Jordan%20Oliver%202000.htm - http://www.unipeg.org/Jordan%20Oliver%202000.htm

Now lets see his schedule for 2001 and 2004:

Jordan Oliver and the Rhythm Cartel
Envie
June 1, 8:00pm-12:00am
1738 Pearl St
Boulder, CO
http://www.unipeg.org/Jordan%20Oliver%202001.htm - http://www.unipeg.org/Jordan%20Oliver%202001.htm

2004 Schedule

Jordan Oliver is currently on tour with Jordan Oliver and Flying Salsa. More information can be found at:
http://www.flyingsalsalive.com/ - www.flyingsalsalive.com

http://www.unipeg.org/Jordan%20Oliver%202004.htm - http://www.unipeg.org/Jordan%20Oliver%202004.htm

Lets read his bio for Unipeg Records

Jordan Oliver is a door to a unique musical world. His writing is completely contemporary, with wilderness-like qualities particularly felt in the space between the melody and rhythms of his songs. Endowed with a remarkable and unnerving passion for music and th process of creating unique expressions, Jordan takes quantum musical leaps. His compositions include provocative film score soundscapes, neo-classical pieces, Rave, Rock and Acid Jazz. He has performed, written and arranged for orchestra and rock bands.

http://www.unipeg.org/Jordan%20Oliver%20bio.htm - http://www.unipeg.org/Jordan%20Oliver%20bio.htm

Do you still believe we should add a guy who has formed such bands as:

Jordan Oliver and the Salsa Cartel
Jordan Oliver and The Flying Salsa Alive
Jordan Oliver & Friends The Heartbeat Symphonia & Mambo Cocktail

Please

-------------

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 15:53

Just to emphasize, UNIPEG RECORDS is the label founded by Jordan Oliver to release his albums, this is the bio DONE BY HIMSELF IN HIS LABEL'S OFFICIAL PAGE:

After a stint in Hollywood working with a number of bands and writing films scores, Jordan realized he needed to pursue his own musical vision to keep the quality of his music alive and growing. He moved to Boulder, Colorado where he has founded Unipeg, a recording studio, production company and record label. With Unipeg, he is creating a breeding ground for musical ideas, both individual and collaborative, to take shape. We can look forward to many interesting and cutting edge projects from this talented musician/producer.

http://www.unipeg.org/Jordan%20Oliver%20bio.htm - http://www.unipeg.org/Jordan%20Oliver%20bio.htm

He doesn't mention the word Progressive Rock to describe his music once, so it's clear that CD Baby is trying to sell Jordan's album usig the Progressive name.

His orientation is all his albums is clearly towards Jazz with Latin and Clasical influences, but Symphonic....No way.

Please The Rock, don't accuse me of snopbery or something similar, when I have to work for the Symphonic Team (and foe everything) I always do my homework complete, not only listening but also researching.

Iván

-------------

Posted By: The Rock
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 16:59

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Just to emphasize, UNIPEG RECORDS is the label founded by Jordan Oliver to release his albums, this is the bio DONE BY HIMSELF IN HIS LABEL'S OFFICIAL PAGE:

http://www.unipeg.org/Jordan%20Oliver%20bio.htm - http://www.unipeg.org/Jordan%20Oliver%20bio.htm

He doesn't mention the word Progressive Rock to describe his music once, so it's clear that CD Baby is trying to sell Jordan's album usig the Progressive name.

His orientation is all his albums is clearly towards Jazz with Latin and Clasical influences, but Symphonic....No way.

Iván

Listen buddy,

Have you heard the whole album yet?

Unlike you I don,t have accademic pretientions,and i WON'T START DISPLAYING SOME HIGH CLASS SNOBBERY to prove my point about a band.

I just listen to music,I don't analyle it.I still think this BAND ''THE NEW AGE'' should be added to PA based on what I heard;symphonic progressive rock.So I tell it like it is and how I hear it,if it's prog that I hear,then so be it.If it ain't so be it to.

To disclaim ''The new age '' as new age,jazz embiant is pure BS as far as all the good people I have submit this band to so far, but YOU.

A nd I have also been told by PM by some well respected members of this board that you do indeed have your nose up in the air and that you have this snotty and stubborn attitude towards those who don't share your opinion and views.I can only confirm their views so far.

Btw,I bought this CD in a well reputed second hand shop where the vendors are true fans and connoissors of prog and many other genres and the CD was in the ''PROGRESSIVE ROCK'' section.

And i still stand by what I say,the fact that they're not in PA or other prog sites dosen't say anything at all.There are thousands of bands not on any of those boards that should be included,yet aren't because they are unknown,not because they don't fit the genre's description.

Do you belive Iron Maiden,The Who,Beatles,Jefferson Airplaine,ect... are proggier than ''Neptuned''?

Me thinks not.But they are far more renowned and popular.

Ricardo Cocciante also did one progressive album,so did Jose Cid.Most of those two fine musicians musical input resides outside the wide prog spectrum,yet they are beign included on many prog sites.I don't see why we should'nt aplly the same to Neptuned.

I 've been told by another respected member of this board to submit Neptuned to other more open minded operators of this board,wich I will do.

Please wake up and smell the roses.....

-------------
What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 17:23

The Rock wrote:

Listen buddy,

Have you heard the whole album yet?

Yes I did and also heard part of his other albums.

Unlike you I don,t have accademic pretientions,and i WON'T START DISPLAYING SOME HIGH CLASS SNOBBERY to prove my point about a band.

All I gave are arguments, including what Jordan Oliver has to say about Jordan Oliver.

And I tell you what I hear with arguments. The Band The New Age DOESN'T EXIST Jordan Oliver credits the album IN HIS LABEL TO HIMSELF

The album is credited to Jordan Oliver everywhere, a musician specialized in Salsa and Latin Jazz.

To disclaim ''The new age '' as new age,jazz embiant is pure BS as far as all the good people I have submit this band to so far, but YOU.

Don't start qualifying as BS my opinions just because you don't agree.

Tell those respected members to say it in my face, I never talk about other members on their back, and I'm sure most of the Collaborators here neither.

Btw,I bought this CD in a well reputed second hand shop where the vendors are true fans and connoissors of prog and many other genres and the CD was in the ''PROGRESSIVE ROCK'' section.

The vendor is responsible for his store, I'm responsible for the Symphonic team.

Yes sure, a guy who:

Has been in the market since 1982
Has a web site
Has his own label
Is promoted by CD Baby.

Is very unknown, while a Abbhama or Delta Cyphel Project who have no website, no páge devoted to them, no My Space pages, no You Tube pages and don't have a label of their own, but are included in most stres.

If he's not ijn any Prog site, is most likely because he's not a Prog artist, but oif another team decides to add him, it's their responsability.

Do you belive Iron Maiden,The Who,Beatles,Jefferson Airplaine,ect... are proggier than ''Neptuned''?

OI'm not responsible for what happens outside Symphonic and recently from Neo Prog, so my opinion is not important, even I'm against some of those bands.

Me thinks not.But they are far more renowned and popular.

I told you, I added none of them and only supported Iron Maiden for PROG RELATED.

As I told you, I don't care if The Bee Gees or Michael Jackson are added to another sub-genre, this won't make me change my mind about Jordan Oliver.

Jose Cid is here, I added him and if I'm not wrong I wrote the bio.

I 've been told by another respected member of this board to submit Neptuned to other more open minded operators of this board,wich I will do.

Tell that member that the decision on Symphonic bands is made by the team I lead, and we decide everything by vote of the team, if we decide not to add them, nobody can force us to do it.

BTW; Tell that respected member to be a man and tell me the things in my face not send a messager...If he exists.

Please wake up and smell the roses....

I'm totally awake and as far as you should notice, I did a complete research about Mister Oliver,

Iván.

-------------

Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 18:14

The point is clear here: Jordan Oliver is not, and will not, be accepted for inclusion in Symphonic, so this discussion ends here. It should have ended earlier, given that I had to hide one post just now.
Forum members are free to express your opinions on this forum, but personal attacks and setting up people (both regular members and collaborators) against each other is not tolerated. Please be constructive and accept proper arguments, and the fact that we all have our own opinions.

According to standard procedures, other teams may consider the suggestion. They are hereby invited to do so. It may not be to everybody's liking, but this is how ProgArchives works.

Closing note: if the tone of discussion becomes similar to what has gone before - this thread will be closed.

-------------
http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected]

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 20:04

Angelo, despite my opínion, I still require another vote from the team to reject the band to be fair.

Iván

-------------

Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 20:08

The Rock wrote:

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

The Rock wrote:

And they should as they are probably the most progressive,or at least symphonic band I ave submit yet.

Well, being a Symphonic sugestion I gave my best attention to them, for what I got (a good part of the album), this is my opinion:

Iran: Absolutely Ambient Fusion
Dreams: Jazzy Ambient mostly IMHO, even though he plays parts of In the Hall of the Moubntain King from Peer Gynt, the sound is always cloiser to a soft easy listenuing fusion with a touch of classical of course.
Alpha Centaurus: Chopin's Polonaise is a good detail, the guy knows his keys, then he jumps to an Emerson like section but always wit that jazzy feeling, sounds loike ïano Improvisations from Works, but then he changes to a more ambient late New Age approach, close to Symphonic but not completely.
The Future: It's Prog, no doubt, but in his track I see no relation with Symphoinic, yes he uses piano and obviously has Classical training, but that's not all you need to make Symph, this is a Proggy approach too AOR IMHO
Neptuned: The closer he gets to Symphonic, very melodic even when a bit light, liked this track

Vivo en Venezuela is more clearly Latin Jazz with very good piano, but not Symphonic either.

Neptuned is credited to Jordan Oliver, The New Age band is a creation only for this concept album based in the history of New Age, not a stable band.

Iván

I would dare to say that you are way too picky and that if this is not sympho prog then what is???

Prog related?

Come on!!!

That's the thing that I dislike the most about some prog fans.they tend to have their noses up in the air and decided what is prog and hat isn't.

To call this light jazz and ambient new age is really exagerated IMHO.Prog aproach to AOR?

Pul-eeeze!

The reason why they're not mentioned in many prog sites is because it is so damn well obscure,just like most bands I suggested.

America's answer to YAWN-ni, in my opinion. That aside, he doesn't belong in symph.

Ivan's a team member of mine and you're going to have to do a better job with your rebuttals because he will shred you. He's tenacious at researching and will back it up with pinpoint accuracy. To assume that he'll not look at it from different angles to see if an artist will fit is a premature judgment on your part. Ivan just doesn't operate like that.

Prog-related gets my vote.

E

-------------

Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 20:21

^^and that's if I honestly had to vote to include it. If it were up to me, I'd leave him for the New Age Archives.

E

-------------

Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 21:01

Regardless of what any other site says, or what our decision may be, I resent the attitude that we are elitist, or don't look at obscure acts. I am a huge champion of the obscure, and have added quite a few to Symph. I am also now championing another rare one for Neo, and will probably have more in the future. We work as a team, and do thorough research. All submissions are taken seriously.

That being said, I am usually the more inclusive one of the bunch. I can see some symphonic components here, and Jordan Oliver may be a good candidate for PA. However, from what I have heard it's not an obvious choice. Since my teammates have already said no, There is really no point in further consideration for Symphonic.

-------------
a.k.a. H.T.

http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com

Posted By: The Rock
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 23:02

E-Dub wrote:

^^and that's if I honestly had to vote to include it. If it were up to me, I'd leave him for the New Age Archives.

E

New age based on what?

The fact that the band name was The New Age?

Listen to the album and please be objective and tell me this is new age.Drums,basses,electric guitars,organ and percussions are rarely used in new age music.

Whatever he did afterward should'nt be taken in consideration.Like I said,Jose Cid only recorded one true prog album,all the rest of his discography is pop music.Yet he's here 100%.

The same reasonning should be applied for The New Age-Neptuned.

-------------
What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"

Posted By: The Rock
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 23:10

bhikkhu wrote:

Regardless of what any other site says, or what our decision may be, I resent the attitude that we are elitist, or don't look at obscure acts. I am a huge champion of the obscure, and have added quite a few to Symph. I am also now championing another rare one for Neo, and will probably have more in the future. We work as a team, and do thorough research. All submissions are taken seriously.

That being said, I am usually the more inclusive one of the bunch. I can see some symphonic components here, and Jordan Oliver may be a good candidate for PA. However, from what I have heard it's not an obvious choice. Since my teammates have already said no, There is really no point in further consideration for Symphonic.

Sorry for the elitists accusations,but I still beleive that there are many of those polluting the prog world presently.They hae this idea that THEY know what is and what is not this and that,and that THEY decide what is or isn't prog.

As long as I will plug on to PA and read reviews of A hard Day's night and Killers by Iron Maiden,I will always find it paradoxal all this reticence and hostility towards an album that is 100% proggier than those-and I could mention many many other bands and albums that are far less prog that Neptued by The New Age.

Forget the Jordan Oliver moniker and at least consider the act as The New Age as it was originally released in 1982.

-------------
What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 23:17

Now the three members of the Symphonic Team have voted in this thread (Myself, E-Dub and Bhikkhu), and Jordan Oliver neither the non existing New Age band are accepted in Symphonic.

As Angelo said this is final.

Iván

-------------

Posted By: The Rock
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 23:18

E-Dub wrote:

The Rock wrote:

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

The Rock wrote:

And they should as they are probably the most progressive,or at least symphonic band I ave submit yet.

Well, being a Symphonic sugestion I gave my best attention to them, for what I got (a good part of the album), this is my opinion:

Iran: Absolutely Ambient Fusion
Dreams: Jazzy Ambient mostly IMHO, even though he plays parts of In the Hall of the Moubntain King from Peer Gynt, the sound is always cloiser to a soft easy listenuing fusion with a touch of classical of course.
Alpha Centaurus: Chopin's Polonaise is a good detail, the guy knows his keys, then he jumps to an Emerson like section but always wit that jazzy feeling, sounds loike ïano Improvisations from Works, but then he changes to a more ambient late New Age approach, close to Symphonic but not completely.
The Future: It's Prog, no doubt, but in his track I see no relation with Symphoinic, yes he uses piano and obviously has Classical training, but that's not all you need to make Symph, this is a Proggy approach too AOR IMHO
Neptuned: The closer he gets to Symphonic, very melodic even when a bit light, liked this track

Vivo en Venezuela is more clearly Latin Jazz with very good piano, but not Symphonic either.

Neptuned is credited to Jordan Oliver, The New Age band is a creation only for this concept album based in the history of New Age, not a stable band.

Iván

I would dare to say that you are way too picky and that if this is not sympho prog then what is???

Prog related?

Come on!!!

That's the thing that I dislike the most about some prog fans.they tend to have their noses up in the air and decided what is prog and hat isn't.

To call this light jazz and ambient new age is really exagerated IMHO.Prog aproach to AOR?

Pul-eeeze!

The reason why they're not mentioned in many prog sites is because it is so damn well obscure,just like most bands I suggested.

He adn't adressed my point about the album beign advertised in prog rock magazines in Italy and Japan.

But I can handle myself too,w/o any fear of beign ''shred''.

Like I said,the album I am suggeting is Neptuned by the band that wa soriginally known as The New Age.That's how the album came out in 1982 and should still be considerd.All the rest of Oliver's discography shouldn't prevent this prog album from beign include in PA.

-------------
What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"

Posted By: The Rock
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 23:26

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Now the three members of the Symphonic Team have voted in this thread (Myself, E-Dub and Bhikkhu), and Jordan Oliver neither the non existing New Age band are accepted in Symphonic.

As Angelo said this is final.

Iván

I accept this decision but still consider Neptuned to be far more symphonic and progressiver than,let's say,Tormato or Big Generator.

And as for the non-existing band,actually the band was existing in the early 80's,and it,s only upon the re-issue that Oliver decided to included in it's own discography.

Camel became a non-existing band in the mid 80's when Latimer had to respect some contracts,yet The Single Factor and Stationary Traveller are still considered Camel albums.

-------------
What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"

Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: February 22 2008 at 23:26

The Rock wrote:

bhikkhu wrote:

Regardless of what any other site says, or what our decision may be, I resent the attitude that we are elitist, or don't look at obscure acts. I am a huge champion of the obscure, and have added quite a few to Symph. I am also now championing another rare one for Neo, and will probably have more in the future. We work as a team, and do thorough research. All submissions are taken seriously. That being said, I am usually the more inclusive one of the bunch. I can see some symphonic components here, and Jordan Oliver may be a good candidate for PA. However, from what I have heard it's not an obvious choice. Since my teammates have already said no, There is really no point in further consideration for Symphonic.

Forget the Jordan Oliver moniker and at least consider the act as The New Age as it was originally released in 1982.

I have my own issues with seeing the same well known things getting discussed to death, but that has nothing to do with this particular case. And the only hostility I see is coming from you.

-------------
a.k.a. H.T.

http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com

Posted By: The Rock
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 01:20

bhikkhu wrote:

The Rock wrote:

bhikkhu wrote:

Regardless of what any other site says, or what our decision may be, I resent the attitude that we are elitist, or don't look at obscure acts. I am a huge champion of the obscure, and have added quite a few to Symph. I am also now championing another rare one for Neo, and will probably have more in the future. We work as a team, and do thorough research. All submissions are taken seriously. That being said, I am usually the more inclusive one of the bunch. I can see some symphonic components here, and Jordan Oliver may be a good candidate for PA. However, from what I have heard it's not an obvious choice. Since my teammates have already said no, There is really no point in further consideration for Symphonic.

Forget the Jordan Oliver moniker and at least consider the act as The New Age as it was originally released in 1982.

I have my own issues with seeing the same well known things getting discussed to death, but that has nothing to do with this particular case. And the only hostility I see is coming from you.

I'm not the one beign hostile towards any inclusions here....

-------------
What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"

Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 01:30

OK, the person who told him to submit Oliver to another team was me... So, unfortunately, it is not a case of being a man LOL

! Obviously, I hope it is clear that my advice wasn't based on any desire to put Ivan or his team down. Having been here for a long time, I know the inner workings of several teams, and I knew what was coming - that is, an argument, with unpleasant words thrown around, and the Admins being forced to take action.

That said, it has happened in other teams too that a suggestion from some member was rejected without appeal, and the person who made the suggestion took offense to that. This is why I took the liberty of contacting Alain myself and telling him to try with another team. Seen as there are people who believe that this artist should be included in our DB, I don't see why he shouldn't get a second or third chance.

Sorry for not having 'been a man' earlier... I go to bed very early in the evening, since these past few days I haven't felt my best. I just want it to be clear that there was NO malicious intent whatsoever, on the contrary.

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 01:52

Ghost Rider wrote:

OK, the person who told him to submit Oliver to another team was me... So, unfortunately, it is not a case of being a man LOL

The action was taken by an Adm becaue of the method that The Rock, used to put one member against another one, and why he qualified my opinions of BS.

That said, it has happened in other teams too that a suggestion from some member was rejected without appeal, and the person who made the suggestion took offense to that. This is why I took the liberty of contacting Alain myself and telling him to try with another team. Seen as there are people who believe that this artist should be included in our DB, I don't see why he shouldn't get a second or third chance.

Raffaella, each team has it's own way of acting, we have voted and don't believe Jordan Oliver is a Symphonic artist and we won't change our mind.

Sorry for not having 'been a man' earlier... I go to bed very early in the evening, since these past few days I haven't felt my best. I just want it to be clear that there was NO malicious intent whatsoever, on the contrary.

As I said in my post I doubt you said:

The Rock wrote:

Or:

The Rock wrote:

I 've been told by another respected member of this board to submit Neptuned to other more open minded operators of this board,wich I will do.

My first reply was not believing him:

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Tell those respected members to say it in my face, I never talk about other members on their back, and I'm sure most of the Collaborators here neither.

...

Tell that member that the decision on Symphonic bands is made by the team I lead, and we decide everything by vote of the team, if we decide not to add them, nobody can force us to do it.

BTW; Tell that respected member to be a man and tell me the things in my face not send a messager...If he exists.

If you didn't said this things, blame The Rock for his words and accusations, not me.

If you did told him to pass over me (Please note that I'm saying if you told him) and recommended him to ask another person with an open mind to order us to accept Jordan Oliver (What I honestly doubt), please I respectfully beg you, avoid doing that, our team has a way of working as each team has their way, please respect it.

Iván

-------------

Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 02:13

Ivan, you've known me for almost two years, so I hope you don't believe for a second that I would do anything in order to disrespect you or your work. I only suggested Alain he contact another team - as I would have done with anyone else. I PM'd him in order to avoid the discussion turning into an argument. Do you really think that, if I had anything to hide, I would have admitted so readily to having contacted him?

I repeat, I told him to contact the Xover or Eclectic team in order to get the artist accepted in one of those subs, not in Symphonic. I thought it was clear, but perhaps I've become unable to make myself understood.

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 02:22

Ghost Rider wrote:

Ivan, you've known me for almost two years, so I hope you don't believe for a second that I would do anything in order to disrespect you or your work. I only suggested Alain he contact another team - as I would have done with anyone else. I PM'd him in order to avoid the discussion turning into an argument. Do you really think that, if I had anything to hide, I would have admitted so readily to having contacted him?

I repeat, I told him to contact the Xover or Eclectic team in order to get the artist accepted in one of those subs, not in Symphonic. I thought it was clear, but perhaps I've become unable to make myself understood.

I'm sure as I was before, no Collaborator would said those things, but for the text of The Rock's posts you can read he said a different thing, so my reaction was logical and my reply was calmed.

BTW: The Adm Team acted because I reported the post, even though I'm sure sooner or later they would had notoiced all this mess.

Iván

-------------

Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 06:40

I have hidden a post in this thread for infringing forum rules in quoting from a Private Message:

Respect the word "Private" in Private Message. Do not publish in the forum a Private Message (PM) you have sent or received.

-------------
What?

Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 06:49

I believe the issue of Jordan Oliver with respect to Symphonic is now concluded and further discussion along those lines is pointless.

If he or The New Age Neptuned album needs to be assessed by more than one of the other Genre teams then I suggest either the Band Submission or Site Monitor Team should take over the 'management' of this submission.

-------------
What?

Posted By: The Rock
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 07:36

darqDean wrote:

I believe the issue of Jordan Oliver with respect to Symphonic is now concluded and further discussion along those lines is pointless.

It seems so god damned difficult to add a band to this site.Too many chiefs,too many references,too many ''specialists''.

This is worst than the government!

Can it be all more simple?Like you open a thread up and suggets this and that band,then collaborators and members get to do some research,analyze it, then submit it to either one of the categories either Sympho,Neo,Proto,space,fusion,related or whatever?

God!All I want is to add this lost album from the past, that I objectively consider progressive(and I'm not the only one),if not symphonic enough to some, at least consider it much proggier than a LOT of albums and bands on PA.

-------------
What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"

Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 09:44

If Symphonic gave you the word it's not Symphonic, why don't you specifically mention what the next genre should be? Let's leave aside how some people here already said it's good enough only for Prog Related, just...just...mention the next genre you wanna suggest this artist towards, so that Team can look into them.

-------------

Posted By: The Rock
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 10:01

Ricochet wrote:

Ermm

Hmmmmm....let me see.

How about Crossover prog?

Or ecclectic prog?

I think both these categories would suit the Neptuned album particularly, and to some extent, the Jordan Oliver career,even if the rest of his discography has little to do with prog.(Just like Jose Cid,btw).

That's why I tried to enter the album as an album by The New Age and not as a Jordan Oliver release.Back in 1982 when it was originally released there was no such act as ''Jordan Oliver'',only ''The New Age''.The CD reissue came out much later as a Jordan Oliver release.Probably because it would sell better, as J.O is still releasing music under is own name while The New Age can be quite misleading,not to mention not as known as Oliver himself.

Anyway,Ecclectic or Crossover would fit the bill I guess,and I hope!

-------------
What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"

Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 10:03

Okay, I'll take the music for a spin (I can find it on CDBaby, right?). It's what I can do, right now, since a check by the Eclectic Team has been requested.

I'll get back with news, then. Meanwhile, the Xover team can check it too.

-------------

Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 11:06

The Rock wrote:

darqDean wrote:

I believe the issue of Jordan Oliver with respect to Symphonic is now concluded and further discussion along those lines is pointless.

It seems so god damned difficult to add a band to this site.Too many chiefs,too many references,too many ''specialists''.

This is worst than the government!

We understand your frustrations Alain, and have been working over the past few weeks to redress this imbalance, the Site Monitoring team has been set up with this issue as one of their specific tasks. It may look like too many chiefs/teams/specialists from the surface but it is a positive step in creating a degree of supporting structure behind the band submission process where bands fall between two or more sub-genres.

The last thing we want is for a valid album/artist to slip through the gaps between genres and be lost; When people such as yourself, who take the time and trouble to submit bands, become disillusioned with the whole process then it is a clear indication that the current system (as you accurately detailed in your 2nd paragraph) is not as efficient as it should be and needs this additional effort to make it work.

The Crossover team will also be evaluating this artist.

-------------
What?

Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 11:07

This is the way it's done, guys. Good to see you helping each other out.

-------------
http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected]

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 12:04

After listening again and again the album, MAYBE could fit in Crossover, but I don't want to tell that team how to do their job.

All the rest of Jordan Oliver's albums are Salsa or Latin Jazz, not Prog at all (heard more than samples from some of them)

What I want people to understand is that the fact that some non Prog bands have filtered in, doesn't justify the admission of another band...Plus it's fact that 90% of the few controvertial bands are in Prog Related or Proto Prog which are non Prog categories.

Each band should be judged by it's own merits, not because somebody feels they are proggier than The Who or The Beatles.

Lets remember that The Beatles are here because they are the most influential band ever, and even whan I didn't agree with their inclusion (Micky must remember how much i opposed to them), The Who are not only very influential, but also fathers of the modern Rock Opera (There was another Rock Opera before Tommy, almost sure it was "Then an Alley", but not even the term was coined until Tommy).

So if not PR maybe Crossover could be a place, being that I don't see how Jordan Oliver could be in the same sub-genre as King Crimson or VDGG in Eclectic, but that's Crossover Team choice

Iván

-------------

Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 14:12

It does generally work in this manner. When a band is submitted to me, I discuss it with the team. If we reject it, we usually have a recommendation of where it should go. Then that team is alerted. There is no reason to get angry about it. This way, we make sure it goes in the proper sub-genre. And just because we are specialists in one area, doesn't mean we don't know know about other sub-genres. We constantly discuss things with Victor, Dean, David, Hughes, Assaf, Jody, etc., because their opinions are valuable.

-------------
a.k.a. H.T.

http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 15:15

bhikkhu wrote:

It does generally work in this manner. When a band is submitted to me, I discuss it with the team. If we reject it, we usually have a recommendation of where it should go.

That's correct HT, as we posted in another thread, when we cleaned the suggested bands from the master list this was the result:

Jean Pierre Alarcen (France): Hard job to search, all the info about this guy is in French but somehow I managed with my rusty French and some info in English plus sanmples……Jean Pierre is a French guitar player who made his proggiest work with Sandrose, hios solo career is formed by three albums:

His eponymous album that is PURE JAZZ with some influences of Mc’Laughlin and Santana but not Prog

Tableau N° 1 (1978): It’s a Neo Classical suite of 75 minutes with some Neo Prog and Symph moments but not preeminent, again don’t mistake Neo Classical with Symphonic.

Tableau N° 2 (1998): A pure Rock meets Neo Classical, not Prog at all, sounds like Mahler or Debussy played at Rock style with metalish guitar.

Not Symphonic, maybe Neo Prog, maybe Jazz Fusion or Prog Related.

Clouds (UK/Scotland): Last year we added 24 bands and we sent a bio about Clouds…..NOT SYMPHONIC AT ALL; it’s a Psyche/Proto Prog band from 1966 to 1971. Except for The Nice, don’t expect to find Symphonic releases in 1968 (Scrapbook), 1969 (Up Above Our Heads) and the only one that could fit chronologically (Watercolor Days in 1971) has no relation with Symphonic

Recommend to be checked by Psyche, they used to tour with Jethro Tull, so they are pretty easy to find.

Cem Karaca: Another hard task, the guy is from Turkey, except for Allmusic (Not reliable at all) all the info is in Turkish and his lyrics are mostly in Ancient Anatolian. Cem Karaca was a prolific and polemic musician/Marxist politician who had an amazing live, even accused of treason because of his ideas and later received a pardon. For the samples I could find everywhere and the information available, he played some sort of Pop/Proggish ethnic music, not adequate for Symphonic at all, even made some Rap…In Anatolian!!!!…The Orchestral tracks are the less Prog (A paradox) sound like French Chanson in some weird language but very mainstream

I don’t dare to recommend him to Prog Folk, too mainstream IMHO, should be checked for Prog Related……According to Bob could be Avant Rio mostly for the lyrics BUT NO WAY SYMPHONIC…..Please provide us some info when receiving this obscure and rare artists, some samples can be found at: http://www.tulumba.com/storeItem.asp?ic=MU939609CV849 - http://www.tulumba.com/storeItem.asp?ic=MU939609CV849 or in his Allmusic entry.

Lake: Prog Related at best. Suggest striking them from the list, and let it be forgotten.WE CHECKED THEM LAST YEAR (WITH RAFF, MICKY AND FRAGILE DT AND REJECTED THEM, WE RECOMMENDED TO BE REMOVED, AND A NEW TEAM HAS THE SAME OPINION.

Mandragora (UK): If this is the band, because the Master List doesn’t specify, it’s a great omission, 100% PROGRESSIVE but must be checked by PSYCHE TEAM, it’s one o the best Neo Psychedelia bands I ever heard

Mandragora (Argentina): If this is the band, it also must be checked by NEO PROG because their Guitar player formed Chaneton, it’s similar but with an addition of World Music. Again please…..GIVE US SOME INFORMATION; A BAND NAME IS NOT ENOUGH. For God’s sake none of the two Mandragoras is Symphonic!!!

Blackfeather: Kind of heavy '70s rock, with some symphonic style. But the psych/space component overwhelms it all. See if Eetu wants them.

Dawn Dialogue (Russian Symph, will be added) We have a winner! Clearly symphonic, and in the Neo era. No question. Neat story too. This was recorded secretly in a hotel room, in two sessions, in 1982 and 1984. These were true Russian rebels.

Helmerson, Anders: Keyboards, synths, and more keyboards. It's like Wakeman meets Kraftwerk. Yes, it is symphonic, will be added as soon as Bob and James give their OK.

Help Yourself: British West Coast oriented band, hard to classify, they are Prog, no doubts but closer to a mix of British Folk and Country Music….no way they are Symphonic, Should be checked by Folk Team but beware with the strong Psyche sound: http://www.terrascope.org/helps.html -

Nell James (USA): I thought at last I had found a Symphonic artist, this 17 years old girl (When she released Tempus, now she’s 18) from Long Island sure has Yes influences, but has a clear Pastoral Folk structure, great stuff Should be checked by Sean Trane, I believe he’s a worth addition, samples and full material in http://nelljames.com/music.html - If not accepted by Prog Folk, We recommend her to Prog Related

12. Sheshet: Some of the information says this is prog folk, but I'm not so sure. It actually get's pretty jazzy at times, and there is also some GG influence. Not enough Jazz for fusion though. There could be a case made for Art, but I think they could also work with us. Lot's of piano, and chamber-like sections. Think of Renaissance with more jazz.

To be checked by ART ROCK and Fusion, but deserves to be here

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=38137&KW=Symphonic - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=38137&KW=Symphonic

Out of 12 bands only 2 were Symphonic, but we added a suggestion for each band hoping it could help to add them.

BTW: HT, as soon as we advance this Neo bios, we must do another cleaning rally of the master list.

Then that team is alerted. There is no reason to get angry about it.

That's unavoidable HT, people take their favoruite band personally, remember how angry I used to get whenever Gabriel Genesis received a bad commet, Igot used, but it took time, because we take our favorite band as part of us.

This way, we make sure it goes in the proper sub-genre. And just because we are specialists in one area, doesn't mean we don't know know about other sub-genres. We constantly discuss things with Victor, Dean, David, Hughes, Assaf, Jody, etc., because their opinions are valuable.

That won't change, that's how we use to work and how we ended in the Neo Prog Team also.

Iván

-------------

Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 15:19

Ivan: remember how angry I used to get whenever Gabriel Genesis received a bad commet, Igot used, but it took time, because we take our favorite band as part of us.

Now to work on you on not getting angry when Phil receives a good comment.

-------------

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 15:49

Don't worry Rushfan, I won't get angry with a positive comment about Phil, if yu like his music it's OK with me, I respect him as a drummer and believe he did a nice job in ATOTT and W&W as vocalist.

Now I don''t like his solo stuff or believe it's related to Prog, but not giving opinions about tastes.

BTW: Been listening his performance in Brand X carefully and he's outstanding, that guy was born for Jazz drumming, I never dreamed I would say this, but he's even better than in Genesis.

Iván

-------------

Posted By: The Rock
Date Posted: February 23 2008 at 16:39

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

After listening again and again the album, MAYBE could fit in Crossover, but I don't want to tell that team how to do their job.

All the rest of Jordan Oliver's albums are Salsa or Latin Jazz, not Prog at all (heard more than samples from some of them)

Each band should be judged by it's own merits, not because somebody feels they are proggier than The Who or The Beatles.

So if not PR maybe Crossover could be a place, being that I don't see how Jordan Oliver could be in the same sub-genre as King Crimson or VDGG in Eclectic, but that's Crossover Team choice

Iván

As I said many times over,the only album worthy of inclusion here is Neptuned.All the rest I don't care and shouldn't even be taken into consideration for a few reasons already stated;

The Neptuned album was originally released by an act called THE NEW AGE,back in 1982 when Jordan Oliver's solo carrer,AS JORDAN OLIVER didn't even existed.

The fact the The New Age might or might not have been a real band is also IMHO irrevelent as those who purchased the album originally weren't aware of Oliver's output obviously as it didn't even existed.

That and the fact that the rest of his discography came out much later and was, as many mentioned with acuracy, far removed from the Neptuned album stlylitically and conceptually.

I believe that for some commercial reasons,Oliver might have re-issued the Neptuned album under his own name as The New Age can be misleading and is not as wordly recognised towards his own targeted public.

Other fact;

The album as been advertised as prog in some Italian and Japanes trade magazine as an entity.I would bet my whole collection that these vendors have nothing to do with the rest of OLiver's discography,just like the reliable local store where I bought it, who filed the album in it's ''progressive rock'' section.And these store owners who recommended the album to me know my tastes and would have never mentioned any other Oliver Cd,et alone file them in their prog section.

So I stand by my word and hope the people at both Crossover and Ecclectic prog sections would give me an ear and take all those arguments into consideration and judge the album on it's own merits wich I belive deserves more then just prog related IMHO.

-------------
What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"

Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: March 01 2008 at 05:48

putting my thoughts here, just to announce:

The New Age (Jordan Olivier) - rejected by the Symphonic Team after a rather nasty discussion, I've done my part in listening and think it's not enough chemistry for Eclectic. I'd suggest Crossover, mainly because I do hear some nice (even if totally un-amazing) samples of lite (light) prog, symphonic/melodic/fantasy/charm music inspired music or new-age (prog) rock. The weak parts are in the vocals (the "recitation" in Be Aware = oof, bad goosebumps...), the beats and sways covered with noises and sugar atmospheres, the Emerson cameo I myself think as a "rip-off" (or a very, very similar cover, anyway) and such.

From very small samples like "Iran", "Lost Horizons" or such I couldn't extract almost any impression, it's impossible to just hear the noisy intro and bit of the beginning rhythm and to say in what genre does it belong. But, overall, both the "qualities" and the "mistakes" in key pieces like "Neptune" (not my favorite cup of symphonic/progressive/melodic/whatever tea), "Dreams", "Alpha Centaurus" - aside listening to Oliver's other albums, available on CDbaby - help decently.

Overall, Olivier is not an amazing addition to our prog rock world, but can make it to Xover, there's a bit of progressive rock in there from what I've heard. If not, Related remains the only entry.

Of course, it's advisable to treat the album as The New Age, otherwise Olivier as a whole has even weaker/simpler/unprogressive albums further down the road, which can make his entire addition bit more difficult.

-------------

Posted By: The Rock
Date Posted: March 01 2008 at 17:45

So what do we do now?

Does it get the seal pf approval for any of the categories suggested,mostly crossover or at least related?

I need to know.Same thing with my other suggestions(Dillinger,Demon Fuzz,Elder Kindered) will they be added ?

If so I couls try and submit short bios and discographies.Plus I have other acts I'd like to submit.

-------------
What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"

Posted By: The Rock
Date Posted: March 21 2008 at 19:16

For the record,

Greg Walker of Syn-phonic,one of the most respected prog vender in the world, carries The New Age album ''Neptuned'' in his online catalogue.here's what he says about it: ''Very rare keyboard prog heavily influenced by Keith Emerson and ELP''.

I don't think that Greg would want to sell some cheap new age stuff and try to make it pass for some prog.

Note that he lists the album as ''The New Age'',not Jordan Oliver and that he dosen't carry any other of Oliver's albums.

-------------
What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: March 22 2008 at 00:39

The Rock wrote:

For the record,

I don't think that Greg would want to sell some cheap new age stuff and try to make it pass for some prog.

Note that he lists the album as ''The New Age'',not Jordan Oliver and that he dosen't carry any other of Oliver's albums.

I respect Greg's opinion very much but if his opinion is that this is a Prog band, I strongly disagree with him, already three teams have rejected Jordan Oliver, not one person, at least six persons from two teams.

We all agreed that probably Prog Related and maybe, forcing a bit the parameters could make it to Crossover.

But that's Crossover's Team call, already Eclectic and Symphonic have said no.

Iván

-------------

Posted By: The Rock
Date Posted: March 22 2008 at 03:17

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

The Rock wrote:

For the record,

I don't think that Greg would want to sell some cheap new age stuff and try to make it pass for some prog.

Note that he lists the album as ''The New Age'',not Jordan Oliver and that he dosen't carry any other of Oliver's albums.

We all agreed that probably Prog Related and maybe, forcing a bit the parameters could make it to Crossover.

But that's Crossover's Team call, already Eclectic and Symphonic have said no.

Iván

Better yet,

Two other very well reputed prog vendors carry ''The New Age'' Neptuned album and calls it The New Age band;Doug Larson's eBay store and ZNR.ZNR even compares it to VDGG with Wakeman guesting on keyboards no less!!!

I've done business with all of these fine vendors and I would trust their knowledge of what is prog and what isn't.

And of course CDbaby calls it prog,so does the prog site http://www.prognotfrog.blogspot.com - www.prognotfrog.blogspot.com

Really the only places I've seen such reticence towards this album is right here!!!ALL the peoples I know who are into prog,and musics of all kinds aknowledge the fact that Neptuned,while not the best album and most original, is PROGRESSIVE ROCK.All but the few collaborators here.

Really a big puzzle!!

Alain

-------------
What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: March 22 2008 at 13:00

The Rock wrote:

Better yet,

I've done business with all of these fine vendors and I would trust their knowledge of what is prog and what isn't.

And of course CDbaby calls it prog,so does the prog site http://www.prognotfrog.blogspot.com - www.prognotfrog.blogspot.com

They sell the album to a Prog audience, so it's not an impartial opinion, I trust Greg's opinion, but I don't share it, but CD BABY is not a reliable opuinion.

For example, they sell AGNUS DEI as Prog and it's New Age from a Reikki Master, nothing else, it's here because they added them by mistake, there's a thread about them and it's accepted they are not Prog.

http://cdbaby.com/cd/agnusdei - http://cdbaby.com/cd/agnusdei

http://cdbaby.com/cd/agnusdei5 - http://cdbaby.com/cd/agnusdei5

Really the only places I've seen such reticence towards this album is right here!!! ALL the peoples I know who are into prog,and musics of all kinds aknowledge the fact that Neptuned,while not the best album and most original, is PROGRESSIVE ROCK.All but the few collaborators here.

FALSE The Rock:

GEPR: Doesn't include them
Progressive Ears: Doesn't include him
Manticornio: Doesn't include him
Proggnosis: Doesn't include him.
Progressive Rock E-Zine: Doesn't include him.
Progressive World: Doesn't know he even exists
Progressor: Neither.
DPRO: Much less

And I can go on....But it would be easier to list the sites that include them, because until now I haven't found a single Prog site that includes him or The New Age Band.

No place from the Progressive Rock Web Ring includes Jordan Oliver, The New Age Band or even mentions Neptuned, and they have nothing to win or loose, by the cotrary, every Prog site wants to have the most complete database, ignores Jordan Oliver, The New Age Band or Neptuned.....Not a single one........Of course except the stores who carry his album......Doesn't this means something?

When I thought I had found him in one of them, the article was about Iliver Wakeman or Jordan Ruddess, not a single one about Jordan Oliver.

And even if not....When you join a site, you respect their rules, they are written before you joined, so don't try to place us as ignorants, because that's not truth.

Really a big puzzle!!

The puzzle is that only the stores who carry this album consider he's Prog, while NOT A SINGLE PROG SITE, INCLUDES HIM...But yet, you insist.

Learn to accept the rules.

Iván

-------------

Posted By: The Rock
Date Posted: March 22 2008 at 13:31

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

The Rock wrote:

Better yet,

I've done business with all of these fine vendors and I would trust their knowledge of what is prog and what isn't.

And of course CDbaby calls it prog,so does the prog site http://www.prognotfrog.blogspot.com - www.prognotfrog.blogspot.com

They sell the album to a Prog audience, so it's not an impartial opinion, I trust Greg's opinion, but I don't share it, but CD BABY is not a reliable opuinion.

http://cdbaby.com/cd/agnusdei - http://cdbaby.com/cd/agnusdei

http://cdbaby.com/cd/agnusdei5 - http://cdbaby.com/cd/agnusdei5

FALSE The Rock:

GEPR: Doesn't include them
Progressive Ears: Doesn't include him
Manticornio: Doesn't include him
Proggnosis: Doesn't include him.
Progressive Rock E-Zine: Doesn't include him.
Progressive World: Doesn't know he even exists
Progressor: Neither.
DPRO: Much less

And I can go on....But it would be easier to list the sites that include them, because until now I haven't found a single Prog site that includes him or The New Age Band.

When I thought I had found him in one of them, the article was about Iliver Wakeman or Jordan Ruddess, not a single one about Jordan Oliver.

And even if not....When you join a site, you respect their rules, they are written before you joined, so don't try to place us as ignorants, because that's not truth.

Really a big puzzle!!

The puzzle is that only the stores who carry this album consider he's Prog, while NOT A SINGLE PROG SITE, INCLUDES HIM...But yet, you insist.

Learn to accept the rules.

Iván

The fact that it's not on many prog site is quite irrevelent as there are many bands not on this, or many other sites, that are prog yet not included:Polifemo,Horizonte,Almendra,Man Made,Jude Wallack,Demon Fuzz,Dillinger,Elder Kindered,The Far Cry,Neil Chotem,Michel Madore,Serge Locat,Jacque Blais,Listening,Gypsy,Banger Flying Circus,Chirco,Le pouls,Avnir and the list goes on and on....All of these artists and then some would qualify as prog,yet aren't included on any prog sites.

Btw,last time I checked,Prognotfrog was a PROG site.

The vendors who consider him prog that I quoted are all respected and reputed and as I said earlier wouldn't want to sell it if it hadn't some prog elements in it.Otherwise they would specify it with a comment or two,or at least warn potential buyers.At least Larson,Walker and ZNR would.

As for CD baby if I remember correctly you've quoted them(not sure it was them) about calling the album ''Neptuned'' light jazz or latin or such non sense,yet when I quote them you dismiss it as irrevelent.

About the other sites not including Neptuned,I'm working on it right now,so expect it to pop up somwhere soon(or maybe not so soon).

Alain

-------------
What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: March 22 2008 at 14:34

Just to finish it...PROGNOTFROG IS NOT A PROG SITE:

Their page clearly says: A COMMUNITY DEDICATED TO LISTENERS OF NON MAINSTREAM MUSIC. http://www.prognotfrog.com/ - http://www.prognotfrog.com/

And that is clearly shown by their blog, in which they talk against Syn-Phonic and other labels:

In that page http://prognotfrog.blogspot.com/ - http://prognotfrog.blogspot.com/ they have bands as :

La Clave.......A SALSA band (they say Latin Funk Jazz)

The Third Eye........A New Age Tibetian band.

Huckleberries.....A Bluegrass band

Spice....Heavy Rock

Bruce Haak...Electronic Experimental

BTW;:their only comment about Neptuned is COPIED from CD BABY and sent by a reader called Progdog, they haven't researched anything.

So Prognotfrog is not the best example, they are not a exclusively Prog site as we are.

Iván

-------------

Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: March 22 2008 at 14:51

Jordon Oliver's The New Age project is on my list of bands to evaluate for Crossover, but I have not gotten around to him/it yet. My apologies, he is on my list - but the list is long and my time is limited.

In the meantime please refrain from arguing over his inclusion here based upon what other sites do - the Prog Archives is not a carbon copy of those sites, nor do we blindly follow what they do - we evaluate bands afresh and include them accordingly - whether you agree with this policy or not, it is what we do. Obviously if an artist is borderline then we may take into account what other sites say, but ultimately the final decision is ours.

-------------
What?

Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: March 22 2008 at 16:01

That pretty much sums it up. As I promised earlier, this thread is now closed (and would've been a while ago if I hadn't gone ill).

-------------
http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected]