consolation prize

Don't agree about the snare Ivan... (and I am a drummer also.. actually went to school for it, have a music minor.. altho I switched to purely tympani in college) One of the things Buddy Rich even mentioned about Carl was his snare ability.  He always sets up his snare in a more jazz position, because he loves playing the rims, I always found that a bit uncomfortable.  But one of the most incredible things I've ever seen is the snare section of his drum clinics...  Actually all of those drum clinics is just incredible....

I never said he was bad Threefates, I said he was almost complete but weaker with metals and snare, the problem of Carl Palmer is caused by the kind of work he did in ELP. A Power trio requires double effort from all the members, so the drummer has to be loud and Carl is great at this also has to be fast to cover blank wholes that always are left by the lack of enough musicians.

In order to be loud he must give preponderance to the bass drums and worry less about the metals and snares. Carl Palmer has the most powerful beat in the market and a perfect feet movement but in ELP his snares are weaker, somehow jazzy and too soft.

Phil Collins for example, is used to play in bands with 5 or more persons (Studio albums don’t count because he can over tape instrument by instrument) In early Genesis the had Peter who caught the attention plus Tony and Steve who filled the room with an involving atmospheric sound, on stage with later Genesis he always had Stuermer and a great backup by Chester Thompson, so he never needed to develop a strong or loud beat, his work with metals and snares is basic, but his bass drums and feet are weak. I’m sure Collins would be a complete failure in a real power trio, because he’s not prepared for that.

So Carl had to adapt his playing to the needs of ELP, and this band needed a strong and fast drumming with lots of bass and very few snares and metals, a musician is him and his circumstances, and this are Carl Palmer’s circumstances.

Surely Palmer must be good with the snares, but in ELP he doesn’t have the chance to prove it, and I’m being guided by that, because I never bought any of his clinics, and the clinics don’t represent the real quality of a drummer, because it’s a controlled environment, different is the case of a band on stage where the musician has to solve problems in fractions of seconds..

ivan_2068 wrote:   Also complete drummers are Neil Peart: Complete drummer but a bit poser, nobody needs a 360° degrees drum kit, because he never uses most of it. Iván

Where's Neil supoposed to put his electronic drums? If he had two kits side by side you would still call him a poser!

ivan_2068 wrote: Manu Katche Iván

Would you have voted for him if he hadn't play with Peter Gabriel ?

well, i voted for collins. collins indeed is slightly weak with his feet; usually jazz drummers are weak on feet. ex.: jack dejohnette.

the best with their feet are metal drummers, but that is another story! the best balanced drummer is probably neil peart.

the problem with bruford is that he is a mid frequencies drummer: he is weaker on cymbals: his best cymbals performance is on the music for piano & drums with moraz: i've seen better on cymbals.