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richardh View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 02 2025 at 03:29
I do wonder with ELP whether it may have been different if Atlantic had been more aware of the resale value of a bands catalogue and that can only be maximised by protecting the legacy. Did they think that with punk happening that the whole world's taste in music suddenly flipped over night and that it was a last chance to sell an ELP record? 
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Poor old Love Beach. The problem is the band were knackered at the time. They wanted to be home. INstead they had Atlantic pressuring them for product. Had they left the album and returned to it in a few months rather than be under Ertgeun's lash it might have turned out well. The talent is audible just pallid. Both ELP and Yes had compromised product released by Atlantic to promote on their tours (performances fantastic). Squire had not fished editing Yesshows and Love Beach was not ELP on full blast. The result? The end of ELP and the beginning of major changes, after the band demise, of Yes. All because of the otherwise lauded Ahmet Ertegun who also had their label mates Led Zeppelin on the lowest royalty rate. What happened there around that time. Oh. No Led Zeppelin either despite they and Floyd being credited with saving the music industry's sorry backside.

That second Fudge album is dire. They decided to pursue their preferred direction. Shame they were not a great writing band as well as being an excellent arranging / performing one.

Taking tracks from the Wall (or the Lamb) out of their context of concept album is not advised. Vera, Bring The Boys Back Home work in situ but not separately. This might be why (imvvvvvho) The Wall could have been two things. A great 1 LP rock album then the expanded version that works as the sound track. One might have been DG's vision, the second that of Waters. It could have worked as a soundtrack (which still has not been officially released) and really given people something to go on about.

RIP: John Bonham, Keith Emerson, Alan White, Chris Squire, Rick Wright, Greg Lake, Tim Bogert, Ahmet Ertegun. Posterity serves them all well.
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Hmmmm....how about Yes? 

Heavin' & Urp, maybe?  
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richardh View Drop Down
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Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

ITHS was meant to save the record company Victory music from going under (it didn't). Legendary producer Keith Olsen (Fleetwood Mac, Foreigner, Scorpions etc) was even drafted in to try and make it a commercially appealing album but that failed as well. I do like Hand Of Truth more than anything on Black Moon but otherwise it's a dud.


Even "Black Moon" and "Romeo and Juliet"? (Though "Montagues and Capulets" from Changing States is the better version.)

Th

Yes. Black Moon is very ploddy and has aged very badly although admittedly ITHS is not better overall, Hand Of Truth does have all the things I enjoy about ELP (bombastic lyrics, great drumming and a killer synth solo) and was a return to form .I would also like Gone Too Soon a lot more if it was on a Greg Lake solo album but it had nothing to do with ELP as is well known (session musicians were drafted in for that one).
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Michael Oldfield - Heaven's Open Thumbs Down

Hi,

I thought that AMAROK was one of these albums.

As a massive Oldfield fan... I like to pretend Heaven's Open doesn't exist. Amarok was just Oldfield giving the finger to Virgin, and for that I'll always love the album, it's bloated on purpose. 
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Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time...
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verslibre View Drop Down
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

ITHS was meant to save the record company Victory music from going under (it didn't). Legendary producer Keith Olsen (Fleetwood Mac, Foreigner, Scorpions etc) was even drafted in to try and make it a commercially appealing album but that failed as well. I do like Hand Of Truth more than anything on Black Moon but otherwise it's a dud.


Even "Black Moon" and "Romeo and Juliet"? (Though "Montagues and Capulets" from Changing States is the better version.)

Edited by verslibre - March 20 2025 at 10:34
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Points: 8798 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2025 at 09:47
Triumvirat's Russian Roulette album from 1980. It stinks. By then, saleswise, Triumvirat were an afterthought, and at opposite poles to their "heyday" in the mid 1970s when they reached the top 50 US album charts with 1974's Illusions On A Double Dimple,  the top 30 US album charts with 1975's Spartacus, and when their Old Loves Die Hard album a year later went to number 1 in Portugal. 
                     The previous album before RR, released in 1978, A La Carte, is also nothing like their previous progressive rock work, but is actually an ok record, if you just want pop rock. But Russian Roulette is a total disaster, and then the band would fold in early 1981.
                       
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Points: 29899 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2025 at 22:25
ITHS was meant to save the record company Victory music from going under (it didn't). Legendary producer Keith Olsen (Fleetwood Mac, Foreigner, Scorpions etc) was even drafted in to try and make it a commercially appealing album but that failed as well. I do like Hand Of Truth more than anything on Black Moon but otherwise it's a dud.
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Hawkwind's PXR5 which was chucked together to complete their label obligations with Charisma.. I think they were not even technically a functioning band then? Lots of fans said it was poor at the time but in reality its got some great stuff on it; the Live tracks are worth the cost alone as Robot, High rise and Uncle Sam's on Mars are pure HW classics. The Studio stuff is out-takes and Dave Brock home demos but i think it rates as one of my faves of that era.

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Points: 3042 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2025 at 11:45
^ Indeed, but was In the Hot Seat a contractual obligation?
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Points: 1 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brush Of Chaos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2025 at 09:38
You say Love Beach, I say In The Hot Seat. Love Beach has problems, but they at least sound like Emerson, Lake, and Palmer. In The Hot Seat sees Emerson Lake and Palmer trying to sound like Mike + The Mechanics, Phil Collins, Peter Gabriel, and David Bowie as prime examples. Not even a cover of Bob Dylan's Man In The Long Black Coat can help them considering by this point, ELP was literally a broken band. Emerson had nerve damage, Palmer had carpal, and Lake's voice was hoarse to the point that session musicians had to fill in. It reads more like a desperate Greg Lake solo album than it does ELP, which is why I feel objectively, In The Hot Seat is worse than Love Beach.
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I thought Kansas 'Drastic Measures' was a bit of a stinker, but I'm sure there are worse just can't think of any at the moment. Confused
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Points: 3042 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2025 at 02:31
^ 'Works Vol. 2' was not an album as such.  'Love Beach' is much better and the post-modern irony of the cover seems to be lost on most people.  Where else can you hear Emerson play a Fender Rhodes?  

Anyway, on to another great keyboard player, Mike Ratledge (RIP).  Soft Machine Vol 2 was a contractual obligation but turned into a stunner and resulted in the relaunch of the band.  
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Points: 228 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kirk782 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2025 at 23:21
Does Metal Machine Music even qualifies as music? It's err a giant heck you to both record company and whoever was unfortunate to listen to it.

I have yet to listen to ELP's Love Beach though till now, I found their "Works-Volume 2" as the low point.
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Originally posted by Hosydi Hosydi wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Love Beach is pretty bad following only 4 years on from Brain Salad Surgery. Terrible keyboard sounds and half baked half finished compositions. For You is a decent Lake/Sinfield song and that's pretty much as good as it gets. In The Hot Seat was a disaster with Emerson and Palmer both recovering from operations to their hands for carpal tunnel syndrome. Victory Music went under shortly after as the album bombed. ELP got back up and touring a few years later but never played a single track off that album at any point. That is telling as it gets. In fact as a combo they never played any track off Love Beach either although Carl Palmer did resurrect Canario for his own band.
While Love Beach has received excessive criticism over the years, it deserves reevaluation based on its musical composition, lyrical content, historical context, and evolution of the ELP sound. Fans should approach it open-mindedly, rather than dismissing the album only based on less engaging forum discussions lacking substantive arguments. They will certainly appreciate its unique contributions to ELP's body of work.

I'm sorry but it's a pile of pooh compared to their best albums. This is ELP, not some second rate nothing band. They were considered one of the best early seventies bands back in the day with possibly only Led Zep and Deep Purple being obviously bigger at least until 1972 or thereabouts. They revolutionised progressive/classical rock music and paved the way for Yes and pretty much all the Italian prog scene. It's a long way down from there. They did not want to make it and that's a fact. Atlantic records should have known better than to allow their legacy become so damaged. I hate it personally. It deserves no re-evaluation whatsoever but I am aware that Andy Edwards (and maybe others) have said it's not as bad as its reputation. Scott G Davis (the artist known as 'Myth Of Logic' and a massive ELP fan) has said it would not be a bad album if it was released by any other band. True perhaps but the main point is that it is ELP and not some other band. That's the only context it needs. IMO
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Michael Oldfield - Heaven's Open Thumbs Down

Hi,

I thought that AMAROK was one of these albums.
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Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Having read about The Single Factor: I consider myself a Camel fan and few hours ago Mirage was playingi in my car. Said so, I actually rated it with one star here on PA. I consider it a stinker with some nice passages and a lot of rubbish like You Are The One (Maybe this should have been the hit single?). I partially save Camelogue and Heroes, but the rest...
Many people consider The Single Factor a "bad album" solely due to its 80s style. It's nonsense, because the fact is that the musical quality of a musically superb band like Camel transcends stylistic trends; hence, their artistic merit should be evaluated on composition, musicianship, atmosphere, and emotional impact rather than the era it reflects.
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Having read about The Single Factor: I consider myself a Camel fan and few hours ago Mirage was playingi in my car. Said so, I actually rated it with one star here on PA. I consider it a stinker with some nice passages and a lot of rubbish like You Are The One (Maybe this should have been the hit single?). I partially save Camelogue and Heroes, but the rest...
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I’ve listened to it. The album cover is certainly very much like The Bee Gees. The music isn’t bad per se, but my understanding is that Keith Emerson was kind of left alone on the island to complete it and so it sounds more like his explorations rather than an ELP band album. I actually think it is sad when a band is left to slog it through final albums when the joy of creativity is waning and it is essentially a music business money grab. My understanding is that The Police had a terrible time completing Synchronicity. It’s a great album but many times these final contractual albums result in terrible experiences and burnt bridges for artists as the industry grinds on to get their pound of flesh. In many cases, you can just hear that something is off. The Camel story (good documentary on that) mentioned earlier is a good example. It was nice to see them get together much later on to do some blues songs and do some healing.
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Love Beach is pretty bad following only 4 years on from Brain Salad Surgery. Terrible keyboard sounds and half baked half finished compositions. For You is a decent Lake/Sinfield song and that's pretty much as good as it gets. In The Hot Seat was a disaster with Emerson and Palmer both recovering from operations to their hands for carpal tunnel syndrome. Victory Music went under shortly after as the album bombed. ELP got back up and touring a few years later but never played a single track off that album at any point. That is telling as it gets. In fact as a combo they never played any track off Love Beach either although Carl Palmer did resurrect Canario for his own band.
While Love Beach has received excessive criticism over the years, it deserves reevaluation based on its musical composition, lyrical content, historical context, and evolution of the ELP sound. Fans should approach it open-mindedly, rather than dismissing the album only based on less engaging forum discussions lacking substantive arguments. They will certainly appreciate its unique contributions to ELP's body of work.
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